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OfflineThe Influence
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A cube is a cube.......
    #15269644 - 10/24/11 05:40 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

While enjoying a small dose of cubes I thought about the vendor hype of all the strains and varieties out there and all the arguements here about different potencies and types of trips from different cube "strains". I personally already understand a cube is a cube. And a question I think every person that thinks cubes differ from each other in the type of trip they give is this: If all cubes contain psilocybin and psilocin why would a different "strain" cause a different kind of trip i.e. more or less visual etc.? Sorry if this is off topic for mush cult or if it really don't make sense. Still feeling pretty good :rasta:

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OfflineDroxfo
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Re: A cube is a cube....... [Re: The Influence]
    #15269658 - 10/24/11 05:49 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

The differing amounts and ratios of psilocybin and psilocin per strain probably have something to do with it.  I think a big part of it may be psychological, there is a difference because you believe there will be a difference.

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InvisibleMokshaMedicine
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Re: A cube is a cube....... [Re: Droxfo]
    #15269664 - 10/24/11 05:56 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I agree.  It would be nice if there was some testing on various strains and their related psilocybin/psilocin content.  Although, I believe the content can vary on the individual as well based on substrate and other growing conditions.  Also, would you use mass spectrophotometry to test this, or chromatography to test for psilo. content?


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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: A cube is a cube....... [Re: Droxfo]
    #15269670 - 10/24/11 06:00 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Droxfo said:
The differing amounts and ratios of psilocybin and psilocin per strain probably have something to do with it.  I think a big part of it may be psychological, there is a difference because you believe there will be a difference.



Maybe it is psychological for some. But I don't see how someone can buy into "Cambodians are less visual but highly energetic" vs "Z strain are super potent and intesnse visuals". They both are the same species of mushroom and both contain psilocybin and psilocin. As we know in mush cult potency is a crapshoot with MS inoculations. It has already been proven no cube is generally more potent than the next. Thats not what I am getting at. It's the different "types" of trips supposed strains produce, which is impossible.

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Offlinekeeno
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Re: A cube is a cube....... [Re: Droxfo]
    #15269680 - 10/24/11 06:06 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

also, don't they contain minuscule amounts of other psychoactive compounds? (Baeocystin, Phenylethylamine)

this is probably more noticeable between different species (e.g. cubes and liberty caps)

but yeah, the psychological aspect must play a huge part in it


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Offlineaj123
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Re: A cube is a cube....... [Re: MokshaMedicine]
    #15269707 - 10/24/11 06:24 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MokshaMedicine said:
Also, would you use mass spectrophotometry to test this, or chromatography to test for psilo. content?




Chromatography.
Mass spectrometry is used to confirm the presence of psilocin and psilocybin in a sample.
High performance liquid chromatography(HPLC) is used to quantify the amount of psilocin and psilocybin present in a sample.


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InvisibleOnePerEyeM8
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Re: A cube is a cube....... [Re: keeno]
    #15269720 - 10/24/11 06:32 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

keeno said:
also, don't they contain minuscule amounts of other psychoactive compounds? (Baeocystin, Phenylethylamine)

this is probably more noticeable between different species (e.g. cubes and liberty caps)

but yeah, the psychological aspect must play a huge part in it




That's exactly what I was thinking.

Quote:

Psilocybe cubensis is probably the most widely known of the psilocybin containing mushrooms used. Its major psychoactive compounds are:
Psilocybin (4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine)
Psilocin (4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine)
Baeocystin (4-phosphoryloxy-N-methyltryptamine)
Norbaeocystin (4-phosphoryloxytryptamine)



-From the Psilocybe cubensis wiki.

When people say one strain (it's variety, damn it!) gives a more visual, or less spacey, or more heady trip, it just sounds silly. They're trying to define an alleged objective difference between subjective experiences using subjective adjectives, and expect people to be convinced by such a thing. What's more is lots of people actually are!

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InvisibleLeopardMan
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Re: A cube is a cube....... [Re: Droxfo]
    #15269753 - 10/24/11 06:56 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Droxfo said:
The differing amounts and ratios of psilocybin and psilocin per strain probably have something to do with it.  I think a big part of it may be psychological, there is a difference because you believe there will be a difference.




Here we go again. The different amounts of psilocybin and psilocin and other psychoactive compounds are NOT "strain" dependent. You can find a Brazilian mushroom with an X amount of psilocybin and another Brazilian mushroom from the same batch with an Y amount of psilocybin. Potency is indeed strain related, but a strain is not the name a vendor puts on a print. Strains are practically infinite and with no name. When two compatible hyphae conjoin they form a strain.
Furthermore psychoactive compounds vary greatly from flush to flush:

"Bigwood and Beug reported psilocybin in concentrations as large as 13.3 mg./gm. (1.3 percent) and psilocin in concentrations of 1.0 mg./gm. in a batch of dried Stropharia cubensis(Ps. cube) mushrooms. In the same sample however they also found psilocybin as low as 3.2 mg./gm. and psilocin at 1.8 mg./gm.

Moreover they discovered that the same variety in the same container produced greatly varying amounts of psychoactive  constituents in different flushes appearing about a week apart. For example, they recorded the following psilocybin content in mg./gm. dry weight - for one sequence of five flush's: 8.3,6.5,13.3,4.8,6.8.

"The potency of the third flush was twice that of the second and nearly three times that of the fourth.

The third flush did not show the highest psychoactive concentrations in other instances however. The only consistency found was that in the first flush psilocin - and the psilocybin and psilocin analogs were either barley present or entirely absent. Their strength then increased in subsequent flushes" (source here Thanks EM for sharing :wink:)


--------------------



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InvisibleOnePerEyeM8
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Re: A cube is a cube....... [Re: LeopardMan]
    #15269778 - 10/24/11 07:07 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Ah interesting. Never mind the secondary compound thing then.

B-b-b-but then how do you explain how Ecuador is always like, super more farther out than Golden Teacher? And Malabar is definitely way shroomier than Puerto Rican. :confused:

:datass:

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InvisibleLeopardMan
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Re: A cube is a cube....... [Re: OnePerEyeM8]
    #15269782 - 10/24/11 07:09 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

:super::lol::hatsoff:


--------------------



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InvisibleDynGBreeD
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Re: A cube is a cube....... [Re: LeopardMan]
    #15269820 - 10/24/11 07:27 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LeopardMan said:
Quote:

Droxfo said:
The differing amounts and ratios of psilocybin and psilocin per strain probably have something to do with it.  I think a big part of it may be psychological, there is a difference because you believe there will be a difference.




Here we go again. The different amounts of psilocybin and psilocin and other psychoactive compounds are NOT "strain" dependent. You can find a Brazilian mushroom with an X amount of psilocybin and another Brazilian mushroom from the same batch with an Y amount of psilocybin. Potency is indeed strain related, but a strain is not the name a vendor puts on a print. Strains are practically infinite and with no name. When two compatible hyphae conjoin they form a strain.
Furthermore psychoactive compounds vary greatly from flush to flush:

"Bigwood and Beug reported psilocybin in concentrations as large as 13.3 mg./gm. (1.3 percent) and psilocin in concentrations of 1.0 mg./gm. in a batch of dried Stropharia cubensis(Ps. cube) mushrooms. In the same sample however they also found psilocybin as low as 3.2 mg./gm. and psilocin at 1.8 mg./gm.

Moreover they discovered that the same variety in the same container produced greatly varying amounts of psychoactive  constituents in different flushes appearing about a week apart. For example, they recorded the following psilocybin content in mg./gm. dry weight - for one sequence of five flush's: 8.3,6.5,13.3,4.8,6.8.

"The potency of the third flush was twice that of the second and nearly three times that of the fourth.

The third flush did not show the highest psychoactive concentrations in other instances however. The only consistency found was that in the first flush psilocin - and the psilocybin and psilocin analogs were either barley present or entirely absent. Their strength then increased in subsequent flushes" (source here Thanks EM for sharing :wink:)




:lmafo:
Always here to correct us on this :thumbup:
But if your like me and take the more Spiritual approach to things they all differ in my book. But in science of course there all the same. To me they each will hold their own special name and variety. Thanks for the explenation again LM, seems your always looking to answer this question. :thumbup:


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Offlinefailsafe_eXit
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Re: A cube is a cube....... [Re: DynGBreeD]
    #15269838 - 10/24/11 07:34 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I thought names where given to cubes from the area they were found it.


--------------------
"I love to kill people. I love watching them die. I would shoot them in the head and they would wiggle and squirm all over the place, and then just stop. Or I would cut them with a knife and watch their faces turn real white. I love all that blood. I told one lady to give me all her money. She said no. So I cut her and pulled her eyes out."
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Offlinek00laid
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Re: A cube is a cube....... [Re: failsafe_eXit]
    #15270170 - 10/24/11 09:22 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

failsafe_eXit said:
I thought names where given to cubes from the area they were found it.




kinda.

but that doesnt mean that all people from brazil are good at having sex.


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OfflineDroxfo
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Re: A cube is a cube....... [Re: The Influence]
    #15270215 - 10/24/11 09:38 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LeopardMan said:
Quote:

Droxfo said:
The differing amounts and ratios of psilocybin and psilocin per strain probably have something to do with it.  I think a big part of it may be psychological, there is a difference because you believe there will be a difference.




Here we go again. The different amounts of psilocybin and psilocin and other psychoactive compounds are NOT "strain" dependent. You can find a Brazilian mushroom with an X amount of psilocybin and another Brazilian mushroom from the same batch with an Y amount of psilocybin. Potency is indeed strain related, but a strain is not the name a vendor puts on a print. Strains are practically infinite and with no name. When two compatible hyphae conjoin they form a strain.
Furthermore psychoactive compounds vary greatly from flush to flush:

"Bigwood and Beug reported psilocybin in concentrations as large as 13.3 mg./gm. (1.3 percent) and psilocin in concentrations of 1.0 mg./gm. in a batch of dried Stropharia cubensis(Ps. cube) mushrooms. In the same sample however they also found psilocybin as low as 3.2 mg./gm. and psilocin at 1.8 mg./gm.

Moreover they discovered that the same variety in the same container produced greatly varying amounts of psychoactive  constituents in different flushes appearing about a week apart. For example, they recorded the following psilocybin content in mg./gm. dry weight - for one sequence of five flush's: 8.3,6.5,13.3,4.8,6.8.

"The potency of the third flush was twice that of the second and nearly three times that of the fourth.

The third flush did not show the highest psychoactive concentrations in other instances however. The only consistency found was that in the first flush psilocin - and the psilocybin and psilocin analogs were either barley present or entirely absent. Their strength then increased in subsequent flushes" (source here Thanks EM for sharing :wink:)




  Sorry for the confusion, I  knew I should have specified when I said strain.  I thought having the definition of strain in my post would come off as condescending, and now I see indeed it does come off that way.  I literally meant strain as in an isolated strain.

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InvisibleLeopardMan
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Re: A cube is a cube....... [Re: Droxfo]
    #15270702 - 10/24/11 11:48 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DynGBreeD said:
Always here to correct us on this :thumbup:
But if your like me and take the more Spiritual approach to things they all differ in my book. But in science of course there all the same. To me they each will hold their own special name and variety. Thanks for the explenation again LM, seems your always looking to answer this question. :thumbup:




it's my curse :lol:

Quote:

Droxfo said:
Sorry for the confusion, I  knew I should have specified when I said strain.  I thought having the definition of strain in my post would come off as condescending, and now I see indeed it does come off that way.  I literally meant strain as in an isolated strain.




I see :thumbup:


--------------------



You have to die a few times before you can really live.

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Offlinetrophycase
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Re: A cube is a cube....... [Re: Droxfo]
    #15270880 - 10/24/11 12:31 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Droxfo said:
The differing amounts and ratios of psilocybin and psilocin per strain probably have something to do with it.  I think a big part of it may be psychological, there is a difference because you believe there will be a difference.




Cubes should have about the same ratios independant of the variety. I believe that potency between cubes is purely dependant on the specific strain the mushroom was taken from. But that makes you wonder if every fruit on a cake has a different potency... And it also makes you wonder why an entire batch of MS cubes can be totally bunk, even though there are probably hundreds of strains involved in that batch...:shrug:


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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: A cube is a cube....... [Re: trophycase]
    #15270996 - 10/24/11 12:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Again I think I was having a hard time putting into words what I was trying to say. But it just seemed so obvious to me last night. Like "How are people not seeing they are all the same?!" But potency wasn't really what I was getting at just the different types of trips vendors try and sell you on. I know every trip is naturally different and that no two will be the same, but vendors have a way of convincing people that the same kind of mushroom from one region will cause a different trip from the same kind of mushroom a couple countries away. It's like saying "The vitamin C in florida oranges is way better for you than vi taman C from California."

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OfflineThe Influence
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Re: A cube is a cube....... [Re: The Influence]
    #15271001 - 10/24/11 12:51 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Oh and thanks LM that was some cool information on potency none the less :thumbup:

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OfflineFungi4TW
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Re: A cube is a cube....... [Re: The Influence]
    #15271224 - 10/24/11 01:39 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I totally understand, and agree with what you are saying, as long as you are talking about all cube varieties except for Penis Envy. Penis Envy is not just a cube. If you think differently it's because you have never grown them.

What I don't understand is why on earth does anyone grow anything other than PE? Seems like a waste of resources.

I know that I won't ever grow any other varieties of cubes. I do grow ATL#7 for sclerotia though.


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Offlinedxharms
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Re: A cube is a cube....... [Re: Fungi4TW]
    #15271326 - 10/24/11 01:58 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

i think the concentration of compounds probably has a lot to do with it. as far as vendors telling you what kinda trip its gonna be is for the birds. im sure the substrate and density of the fruits matter too. when i say density i mean the mushroom flesh probably effects how it is absorbed in your system or koolaid. like hollow stems and harder or softer ones. anyone noticed that difference? maybe thats why fresh is suppose to be stronger.

varieties/strains are different in cubes though regardless of potency. i hate "a cube is a cube" but have to agree to a certain extent.

:thumbup: good thread


--------------------
<----obeys all laws and never questions authority.


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