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OfflineCultyVader
Dark SporeApprentice

Registered: 03/13/03
Posts: 595
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepared?
    #1526746 - 05/07/03 04:16 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I mean really?
I feel like a complete moron when i try and argue my point of view against pinksharkmark.
I imagine age plays a big factor
Mushmaster makes me uncomfortable but there are holes in his arguments.
But my own arguments pale in comparison to both of you and it seems as though arguments made by others opposing you dont do the job either.
A note to alex123: try not to let your emotions influence your text you will greatly increase the credibility of your statements. Not that im any better
Anyway my hat is off to you PinkSharkMark and mush from what ive read so far ill take my shoes off to, though im sure if i read more of your posts ill be convinced otherwise (in a good way) though we will never see eye to eye.
In the mean time your passion for your points has encouraged me to "bone up" so that i may play on your level. I hope this doesnt give two you a big head or get me flamed to death


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
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Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepared? [Re: CultyVader]
    #1526753 - 05/07/03 04:22 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quick.....Catch!    Its the KY Jelly that you forgot, that could've hurt. :wink:


There are some damn intelligent, articulate mothafuckas around here.   


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepared? [Re: CultyVader]
    #1526796 - 05/07/03 05:14 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

extremists



A hideous choice of words.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinezeronio
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Registered: 10/16/01
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Re: Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepare [Re: Skikid16]
    #1526822 - 05/07/03 06:04 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

There are some damn intelligent, articulate mothafuckas around here.




I second that! But they're not extremists, quite contrary I'd say.


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Anonymous

Re: Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepared? [Re: CultyVader]
    #1526878 - 05/07/03 08:19 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

holes!? what holes!?  :wink:

one of the things i like about this board is that if something you say doesn't hold up to logical scrutiny, someone will usually call you on it pretty quick.


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OfflineJohnnyRespect
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Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 676
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Re: Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepared? [Re: ]
    #1527010 - 05/07/03 10:39 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

If by "extremists" you mean "conservatives", then the answer is "because conservatives are right".  Wellpreparedness comes from education :smile:

jr


--------------------
As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepare [Re: CultyVader]
    #1527031 - 05/07/03 10:53 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

CultyVader writes:

I feel like a complete moron when i try and argue my point of view against pinksharkmark.

Don't feel that way. It's not that you lack intelligence, it's that you are trying to defend an indefensible position.

I imagine age plays a big factor.

For sure. There is no possible way that at your age you have yet had enough time to be able to think as many things through as I have. That in no way makes you a moron. If it makes you feel any better, I tell you honestly that as a high school student (in the Sixties and early Seventies), I believed a lot of stuff my teachers told me, too. It's to be expected.

"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Not to diss Churchill, but I have found it is not even so much age as it is time spent exploring philosophical concepts. There are a lot of people who stop seeking knowledge actively the instant they leave school. From that point on, their "education" consists of catching the occasional bit of news on TV. I know far too many people who never even watch the news, and have literally never read a single book since leaving school. Oh, the occasional magazine, maybe, and the funnies and the sports page of the newspaper. But that's it.

But my own arguments pale in comparison to both of you and it seems as though arguments made by others opposing you dont do the job either.

That's not because mushmaster and I are such great debaters, but because we are arguing the correct side of the issue. There is no way that I or mushmaster or anyone else could present a convincing argument for the violation of individual rights through the "will of the majority", no matter how golden-tongued we might be.

In the mean time your passion for your points has encouraged me to "bone up" so that i may play on your level.

Then my mission has been accomplished.

I don't post what I do in order to score imaginary "debating points", but in order to point out error, folly, and sloppy thinking, and in order to persuade others to think. Read up on these issues, think things through, and educate yourself. I can guarantee you that one hell of a lot of the stuff they presented to you in school is flat out one-sided bullshit. I am not talking about the hard sciences (except the way many biology teachers go way overboard with the ecological movement stuff), I refer to the humanities -- literature, sociology, history, philosophy (except virtually no one in high school is ever even exposed to a philosophical principle).

I repeat -- in no way are you a moron. You have been literally ripped off. The public servants in charge of providing a product (your education) paid for by taxpayer dollars have delivered defective goods. That's not your fault -- you are the victim here, not the perpetrator.

Seriously, it pleases me greatly to hear that you intend to expend the effort to look into things further on your own. I wish more would follow your example.

pinky

p.s. I have no objection to being labelled an "extremist". I am an "extremist" when it comes to defense of individual liberty. There are some things on which one cannot compromise. Either individual rights trump group "pseudo-rights" or they don't -- it's an "either-or" issue; a "middle of the road" approach doesn't work.


--------------------


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepared? [Re: CultyVader]
    #1527300 - 05/07/03 01:14 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Despite what the conservatives on this board would have you believe, they don't win because they are "right." It's just that people like Pinksharkmark and mushmaster are good at debating. I'm working on my debating skills, and I find this board gives me plenty of practice.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
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Re: Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepared? [Re: Skikid16]
    #1527315 - 05/07/03 01:20 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

There are some damn intelligent, articulate mothafuckas around here.   




Aww, gee thanks! :blush: :smirk: :wink:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Registered: 03/06/03
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Re: Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepared? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1527354 - 05/07/03 01:32 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

"I'm working on my debating skills, and I find this board gives me plenty of practice. "

Honestly, thats the truth. I love PA&L 'cause I can usually find someone who's taken a completely indefensible position and is therefore fodder for me. MOST of the people who post here are articulate and willing to see someone else's point of few. Some however, only post to be annoying, ya?

This forum kicks ass...Even if 3/4 of you are ultra-conservative fascists....

I mean that in a good way, of course....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepared? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1527362 - 05/07/03 01:34 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

This forum kicks ass...Even if 3/4 of you are ultra-conservative fascists....

I mean that in a good way, of course....



I actually think the majority of the people here are liberal. It's just that the conservatives post more often.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepared? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1527980 - 05/07/03 05:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Despite what the conservatives on this board would have you believe, they don't win because they are "right."



There you are being wrong again.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
Re: Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepare [Re: silversoul7]
    #1528008 - 05/07/03 05:23 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

silversoul7 writes:

Despite what the conservatives on this board would have you believe, they don't win because they are "right." It's just that people like Pinksharkmark and mushmaster are good at debating. I'm working on my debating skills, and I find this board gives me plenty of practice.

Don't sell yourself short -- nothing wrong with your debating skills. It's just that your position (re individual rights) is indefensible. I tell you honestly that even if I were to put every ounce of my effort into winning a debate where I was tasked with defending Socialism, I would lose -- not because my skills were insufficient, but because the position can't be defended.

pinky


--------------------


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Anonymous

Re: Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepare [Re: Phred]
    #1528052 - 05/07/03 05:39 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

a defense of socialism (involuntary, that is) must rest on the idea that people do not have a right to personal property.

it must rest on the idea that individuals are not free to employ their resources in the way the please; that they have no right to claim ownership of their time, money, labor, skills, or bodies.

it must argue that such things are group property, and that the individual has no right to them.

this is why it's so hard to argue in favor of it.


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Invisiblecheesenoonions
??????????????

Registered: 04/02/01
Posts: 584
Re: Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepared? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1528371 - 05/07/03 07:51 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

This forum kicks ass...Even if 3/4 of you are ultra-conservative fascists....

I mean that in a good way, of course....



I actually think the majority of the people here are liberal. It's just that the conservatives post more often.




Well, I think that most registered users are most likely liberal in their philosophy, but the conservative point of view is posted more often. It's similar to what is happening in the country right now. The "conservatives" are very active in politics while the "liberals" are just not interested. Ask your liberal friends if they voted last election.


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Anonymous

Re: Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepared? [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #1528416 - 05/07/03 08:06 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

hmm... the people that take a more active and interested involvement in political issues wind up turning out to be conservatives... hmm... coincidence?

i thought of myself as a liberal before. i used to be a socialist. i've even thought of myself as an anarchist before. it's hard to keep those views when you come to this board frequently and see the positions on the left get overrun by logic day after day after day.


Edited by Anonymous (05/07/03 08:25 PM)


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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Registered: 03/06/03
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Re: Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepared? [Re: ]
    #1528536 - 05/07/03 08:40 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

"I tell you honestly that even if I were to put every ounce of my effort into winning a debate where I was tasked with defending Socialism, I would lose -- not because my skills were insufficient, but because the position can't be defended."

What? Not to start this conversation here, we can start a new thread if you'd like, but why is Socialism indefensible? I can think of several countries off the top of my head where Socialism, NOT Communism mind you, is very succesful. If some of the folks here can defend the position of the Bush Administration, then Socialism is a slam dunk.....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Anonymous

Re: Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepared? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1528579 - 05/07/03 09:02 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

it's ironic that this post is mistakenly addressed to me, and that if you had read a certain one of my posts in here, you'd have an answer to the questions you're posing.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
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Re: Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepared? [Re: CultyVader]
    #1530476 - 05/08/03 12:49 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

"Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepared?"

Because it seems that our government has a unique knack for giving people a bunch of free explosives and money and then pissing said people off.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: Why is it that the extremists are always so well prepared? [Re: CultyVader]
    #1532339 - 05/08/03 10:57 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

If you wish to bone up on rebuttals of the libertarian position (what you call "extremist") you can look here:

Critiques of Libertarianism

It's chock full of goodies, analyzing and taking apart the philosophical and economic bases of both libertarianism and Ayn Rand's Objectivism. Don't make up your mind until you've had a good look around there.


Edited by EchoVortex (05/08/03 10:59 PM)


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