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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: NetDiver] * 1
    #15252964 - 10/20/11 04:46 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Emptiness allows one to see there is nothing to cling to.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: Kickle]
    #15252981 - 10/20/11 04:50 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

And yet we still somehow manage to do it. :wtf:


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: NetDiver]
    #15252987 - 10/20/11 04:52 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

A dependent arising, even clinging is ultimately empty.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: NetDiver]
    #15253077 - 10/20/11 05:12 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

My coping mechanism is to let go of the desire to stay myself.

Bingo!  IMO that's being awake. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblehelix
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: White Beard]
    #15253124 - 10/20/11 05:24 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Is death anxiety a bad thing? I don't think it necessarily invalidates science either (albeit certain forms of science)

To understand that you're doing something negative to yourself, those around you and even those distant from yourself because of the fear of death is useful, because then you can be above and try to stop it, as someone has already illustrated. To see that conceptions of self and dogma, including the attachment to science, is a result of death anxiety, is one of those things too, to encourage more versatility.

But so many people are deprived from a fully-lived life and if death anxiety may be what's pushing us to help people, develop skills and have better human relationships, to enjoy life more and help others be able to enjoy their time on this earth more, then I'd say it's a pretty ingenious evolutionary tool that we should exploit...if it can be channeled for these and other similar purposes.

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Invisiblehelix
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: helix]
    #15253175 - 10/20/11 05:32 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

This is straying a bit but it's interesting to me that Becker sees mental illness in terms of death anxiety as well because this throws a whole other element into the observable pattern of bipolar and others with mental illness having immense creative urges and accomplishments under their belts with art, science, etc. If someone's hero system is bogged down, of course they're gonna feel like they have to work extra hard to cement their immortality...but i'm glad they do because they give back to the world in neat and useful ways for the rest of us, and in exchange we do immortalize them (for a time at least...until all of humanity dies)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: helix]
    #15253373 - 10/20/11 06:13 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Is death anxiety a bad thing?

No, good and bad are subjective.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinethefloodbehind
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: Icelander]
    #15253441 - 10/20/11 06:29 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

What is the object?

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Offlined33p
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: Kickle]
    #15253526 - 10/20/11 06:45 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I think we can agree that the "problem of induction" exists. However, I think your critique of science belies an ignorance of epistemology and the history of science, and your sweeping attempt to link it to death anxiety can be seen as your own expression of existential anxiety. There is no deeper meaning behind the ubiquity of science, which utilizes an induction based methodology, beyond it's ability to aid in accomplishing the goals of the individuals who use it. 

Your critique would be better if specifically addressed toward scientism, that may very well be related to some kind of existential anxiety.


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: d33p]
    #15253745 - 10/20/11 07:22 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Or maybe you simply aren't understanding what I'm saying. You're assuming a whole lot based on your personal perspective yet not actually countering anything. Let's start with countering my claim that objective study, or the study of objects, is not actually studying an object but rather the illusion of such.

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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: Kickle]
    #15253928 - 10/20/11 07:54 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Death anxiety is a temporary illusion as well. It depends on quite a bit.




What did ya mean here by it depends on quite a bit?


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: Mufungo]
    #15253953 - 10/20/11 08:01 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I doubt the rotting corpse of my Grandmother experiences death anxiety. So what's different in those conditions as opposed to the conditions I find myself in. That's a starting point for "quite a bit".


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: Kickle]
    #15254016 - 10/20/11 08:10 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Hey my mom's rotting too. Maybe we should get them together as they seem to have a lot in common. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: Icelander]
    #15254102 - 10/20/11 08:31 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I'll meet you halfway. Don't forget something to deal with the stink.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: Kickle]
    #15254128 - 10/20/11 08:38 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Oh I don't really need to be there do I? 

Mom and I never really hit it off. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: Icelander]
    #15254172 - 10/20/11 08:45 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Just finished The Man Who Fell to Earth. Thought it was funny how the end line was just about the same sentiment as the one in The Hospital.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Offlined33p
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: Kickle]
    #15254462 - 10/20/11 09:45 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Or maybe you simply aren't understanding what I'm saying. You're assuming a whole lot based on your personal perspective yet not actually countering anything. Let's start with countering my claim that objective study, or the study of objects, is not actually studying an object but rather the illusion of such.




Meaning is the illusion. Words do not have any inherent meaning. We give meaning to words through use within contextual constraints to accomplish ends.

What is the significance of the study of objects actually being the study of the illusion of an object? What is it about the physical world or the conceptual framework you use to interpret it that makes your claim better in terms of correspondence and/or coherence? Why would the phrase "I study the illusion of an apple" be superior to "I study an apple?"


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: Kickle]
    #15254470 - 10/20/11 09:47 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Just finished The Man Who Fell to Earth. Thought it was funny how the end line was just about the same sentiment as the one in The Hospital.





Great 70s flick don't you think?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: Icelander]
    #15254526 - 10/20/11 10:00 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah it was. Still sinking in really.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Death Anxiety as seen in Science [Re: d33p]
    #15254542 - 10/20/11 10:03 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
Or maybe you simply aren't understanding what I'm saying. You're assuming a whole lot based on your personal perspective yet not actually countering anything. Let's start with countering my claim that objective study, or the study of objects, is not actually studying an object but rather the illusion of such.




Meaning is the illusion. Words do not have any inherent meaning. We give meaning to words through use within contextual constraints to accomplish ends.

What is the significance of the study of objects actually being the study of the illusion of an object? What is it about the physical world or the conceptual framework you use to interpret it that makes your claim better in terms of correspondence and/or coherence? Why would the phrase "I study the illusion of an apple" be superior to "I study an apple?"




So you don't have a counter? Well if you think of one you let me know.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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