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 PrimalSoup
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Registered: 11/17/09
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 Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush...and 2nd flush...  17
#15181139 - 10/05/11 12:18 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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This is a bioassay result, but it confirms something I've suspected. I recently ran a bunch of Ps. cubensis, v. Wild Texan, and one of the minitubs spent an extra month (approx) outside the FC in GE consolidation mode. Did some minor pinning. When introduced to FC as you might expect it flushed vigorously, with a fine efficiency, and I proceeded to imbibe (as tea) what I expected to be my usual second-day dose from less than half of the flush.
OMG! Badly underestimated this - the fruits were about 50% stronger than expected and luridly psychedelic, which was itself interesting because I've been about to abandon the strain I've been growing due to lowering potency.
My thinking is it's the time-to-fruiting that accounts for this, and I'd extend it as a likely factor for PE and other slow growing strains' potency reports. There was no obvious extreme bluing, and the fruits were picked when well into sporulation (making prints from these).
If this belongs over in general cult please move it and TIA but many things posted over there get little more than a "oh cool" and I'm more interested in specific mechanisms at work.
Have a look at the grow itself.
 PS
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Edited by PrimalSoup (10/18/11 02:51 PM)
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FuckMeRunnin
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 Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#15181476 - 10/05/11 01:35 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Was it MS or an Isolate?
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush [Re: FuckMeRunnin] 1
#15181657 - 10/05/11 02:24 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Had been isolated some on agar, not a pure culture as it's shown overlapping flushing behavior.
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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FuckMeRunnin
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#15181977 - 10/05/11 03:35 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Interesting, when I let a tub consolidate for longer then usual, all I ended up with was overlay haha.
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SickDog
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush [Re: FuckMeRunnin] 1
#15184675 - 10/06/11 01:52 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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very interesting! i'm very curious as to what the subsequent flushes will look like. how much did the substrate shrink?
suppose the mycelium is storing up energy while its consolidating and consuming the substrate. If its not storing energy, could it be making these nutrients readily available by breaking down the substrate but not consuming/converting it into fruiting bodies, for when its time to fruit? Then when these fruiting conditions are introduced the mycelium devotes all this stored energy into that first flush resulting in what you say is a noticeably stronger fruit.
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush [Re: SickDog] 1
#15186232 - 10/06/11 12:15 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, not long to wait, as the 2nd flush started within days of harvesting the first.
I've had the same thoughts. It's pretty clear that little if no actives exist in the substrate until fruiting, and IME little if no actives exist in the substrate even after fruiting (yes, the taste is terrible, even from pure grain subs  ).
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush [Re: FuckMeRunnin] 1
#15186241 - 10/06/11 12:18 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
FuckMeRunnin said:
Interesting, when I let a tub consolidate for longer then usual, all I ended up with was overlay haha.
I took some pics of the sub before introduction to fruiting - obviously raring to go:
  
No overlay there, but some tiny snakes are evident. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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FuckMeRunnin
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush [Re: PrimalSoup] 3
#15187095 - 10/06/11 03:12 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Don't people swear that sclerotia is much more potent the longer you leave it in the jar? I hear people say the reason for bad stones is because they haven't been left in the jar long enough. Maybe colonization time in general is important when it comes to potency. I do know that the slowest fruiters I have grown have always been the most potent.
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Wing
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush [Re: FuckMeRunnin] 1
#15187231 - 10/06/11 03:46 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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I concur with FMR. The slower growers tend to be more potent and the longer you leave stones to grow the more potent they are said to be. Two BRF jars I left to consolidate for 6 weeks and the fruits I got from them were a lot more potent then the ones I consolidated for 1 week.
I've also noticed that if I leave my monos to colonize and consolidate until they begin to pin, the fruits tend to be more potent as well.
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My Old Grow Logs
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 HorizonSpawn
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush [Re: Wing] 1
#15189351 - 10/06/11 10:17 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'll definitely be keeping this in mind 
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Please assume any and all prints exchanged are "WILD" in nature; and thus, should NOT be considered ASEPTIC...
NOTE: Please excuse my brevity, as it is a bitch 'n' a half and slow as hell to type on this here phone 
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ManicMongrel
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#15190526 - 10/07/11 08:00 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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You might be onto something here, it would make sense for the fungi to produce more secondary metabolites if fruiting temperatures are not ideal. Since it wont be using energy on reproduction it will favor other processes in stead.
I think some of the same principles applies for slow brewing beer, explaining why it has more flavor because the yeast produce more secondary metabolites (among other factors of course).
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush [Re: Wing] 1
#15191696 - 10/07/11 01:21 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
winged_1 said:
I concur with FMR. The slower growers tend to be more potent and the longer you leave stones to grow the more potent they are said to be. Two BRF jars I left to consolidate for 6 weeks and the fruits I got from them were a lot more potent then the ones I consolidated for 1 week.
I've also noticed that if I leave my monos to colonize and consolidate until they begin to pin, the fruits tend to be more potent as well.
Yeah, I think I'm on-board this train. To the extent that I'm thinking about scheduling my grow cycles to allow for a month or two of set-aside time in GE consolidation. The 2nd flush is getting close on the tub I've described and I'll be very interested to see if it matches the first in potency, a few days on.
'Cause think about it - if all you really have to do to get uberpotent fruits is leave your tubs in consolidation for a longer period, what's the downside? (well, OK, maybe more contamination. But work with clean stuff and leave it be while it sits and all should be safe. Fully colonized sub is very stable IME.)
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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FuckMeRunnin
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush [Re: PrimalSoup] 2
#15192124 - 10/07/11 03:06 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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With slow growing fruits in general, I don't really know the advantage of longer colonization. I did a APE grow recently and the colonization of the grain was very very slow. The colonization of the bulk sub was ungodly quick. I did a 1:2 ration and had full colonization in 7 days. I let it go three more and fruited it. The growth after seeing pins was extremely long. I believe it took something like over two weeks from pins to mature fruit. It was an isolate and the potency was out of this world. Most people that tripped off of it wouldn't go above .5 grams. Two grams put you on the moon. What I'm thinking is that in slow growing "strains" like APE the longer colonization isn't necessary because of the length of time the actual fruits take to develop. Same with my PF Redspore, the actual fruiting time from pin to mature mush was also very long. It wasn't quit as long as APE, but the potency was much stronger then a regular cube, but no were near as strong as the APE.
I also remember seeing RR said that one week consolidation for cakes was recommended, but a month is ideal. That may go along with what the above poster is saying.
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush [Re: FuckMeRunnin] 1
#15193297 - 10/07/11 08:05 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Different myc grows at different speed on different subs, IME. Have you tried setting something like APE aside for long consolidations as well? I agree that the slower fruiting strains run to higher potency.
Yeah, RR endorsed the long consolidation scenario when I first mentioned it, oh, sometime last year.
His point was also for the shiitakes he grows, to maximize use of the fruiting space he wants one fast strong flush, and you get that from extended consolidation.
So I'm going to be doing some PEU grows now, and I'll try this in whatever combinations make sense. I'm going after absolute potency to save space in storage and growing.
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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XAXAU
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#15200077 - 10/09/11 12:06 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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When you say "GE consolidation mode", is it the "normal" few holes in a box with polyfill and the lid on?
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush [Re: XAXAU] 1
#15202611 - 10/09/11 09:27 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's a Sterlite 6 qt tub with a liner folded down on the top of the substrate and a pair of 5/8" or so holes in either end above that with micropore tape on the holes. Low GE.
Will be trying the second flush  tomorrow. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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PrimalSoup
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Posts: 13,568
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Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush...and 2nd flush... [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#15243277 - 10/18/11 02:53 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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So anyway, the results are in for the second flush as well (280g wet). Same effect. 
Very interesting so far, and now I'm awaiting bioassay test time for the 3rd flush underway now.
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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HorizonSpawn
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Registered: 05/14/11
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush...and 2nd flush... [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#15243529 - 10/18/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Excellent!
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Please assume any and all prints exchanged are "WILD" in nature; and thus, should NOT be considered ASEPTIC...
NOTE: Please excuse my brevity, as it is a bitch 'n' a half and slow as hell to type on this here phone
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush...and 2nd flush... [Re: HorizonSpawn] 3
#15250420 - 10/20/11 12:33 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've noticed this as well, so it would be nice to see a lot more growers try longer consolidation times and report results to see if it's for real or an anomaly.
RR
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wildernessjunkie
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Re: Longer consolidation time leads to greater potency in first flush...and 2nd flush... [Re: RogerRabbit] 1
#15254208 - 10/20/11 08:56 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would try this idea out. How long do you think is too long for consolidation?
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