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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Equal opportunities
    #15239106 - 10/17/11 03:44 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Lets say that the human race creates a world where everyone grows up in an equally nourishing environment with the same possibilities. Everyone gets paid the same for their contribution to society and lives with the same standard of living. What I'm curious now is, will everyone be equally efficient at what they do? Will everyone be equally happy with their position? I guess what I'm saying is, would genetically changing each individual be needed or would a perfect system be enough to ensure equality?


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #15239121 - 10/17/11 03:46 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

It's called pie in the sky.  Look to the rest of nature for your examples.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: Icelander]
    #15239160 - 10/17/11 03:52 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Yes. Nurture is not enough for a closest to perfect society we can have IMO.


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #15239569 - 10/17/11 05:28 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

So there is no diversity then?  Everyone must have the same genes and be some sort of clones?  Sounds like the very opposite of how life works.

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Offline4896744
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #15239708 - 10/17/11 05:57 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Just as some men are better at getting women, some people are better at controlling and distributing resources.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: DieCommie]
    #15239715 - 10/17/11 05:59 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I guess I see what you mean. What I though would be equality with genetic modification is just my subjective perception. I guess we could all be different and have the qualities that are important for living in such a society equally functional with genetic modification (I'm guessing that is possible?).


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

Edited by dustinthewind13 (10/17/11 06:01 PM)

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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: 4896744]
    #15239725 - 10/17/11 06:00 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Just as some men are better at getting women, some people are better at controlling and distributing resources.




How do we get people into the positions they are best at?


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #15239748 - 10/17/11 06:04 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

We can condition them from birth, à la Brave New World.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: Poid]
    #15239767 - 10/17/11 06:07 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
We can condition them from birth, à la Brave New World.




Nice one. :thumbup:

The utopia in Brave New World is far from equal though. I'm trying to understand how a society without hierarchy could exist.


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #15239891 - 10/17/11 06:34 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

What I'm curious now is, will everyone be equally efficient at what they do?

I don't see any reason to believe this is so.

For one thing, even if two people grow up in the same environment, they're not necessarily going to have the same intelligence, drive and motivation, or even the same body and physical abilities.

I've always found the phrase "You can be anything you want to be" to be a giant pile of bullshit. I will never be an Olympic gymnast and never had that option no matter how hard I might have tried or how dedicated I might have been, or how desperately I might have wanted it simply because I don't have the genetics for gymnastics.

And that guy who did make it as an Olympic gymnast could never have been a world-caliber weight lifter. It wasn't in the cards for him from the moment of conception.

What I DO believe is that, within the bounds set for us by the luck of the draw when we're conceived, there is broad latitude for us to make the best or the worst of what we were given. It's not fair that some of us get a free ride, but it's not all bad either in that most of us can make the best of a cheap bus rude.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #15239899 - 10/17/11 06:36 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
We can condition them from birth, à la Brave New World.




Nice one. :thumbup:

The utopia in Brave New World is far from equal though.


Well in terms of the level of happiness that each person experiences, it is.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offline4896744
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: Poid]
    #15239934 - 10/17/11 06:45 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I would rather live in the society portrayed in A Brave New World than any other society that exists.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: 4896744]
    #15239957 - 10/17/11 06:49 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Have you read Island yet?

IMO, the society portrayed in that book is preferable to the one portrayed in Brave New World.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: Poid]
    #15239989 - 10/17/11 06:55 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
We can condition them from birth, à la Brave New World.




Nice one. :thumbup:

The utopia in Brave New World is far from equal though.


Well in terms of the level of happiness that each person experiences, it is.




I guess that is the most important part. There is an anomaly in the story though. The main character failed in his social conditioning, which left him unhappy, even though he was a part of the upper class.

Quote:

iThink said:
I would rather live in the society portrayed in A Brave New World than any other society that exists.




I want a constant supply of happy pills too.

Quote:

Poid said:
Have you read Island yet?

IMO, the society portrayed in that book is preferable to the one portrayed in Brave New World.




edit. Nevermind. I though it was the island they send Bernard to at the end of the book.


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

Edited by dustinthewind13 (10/17/11 06:57 PM)

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Offline4896744
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: Poid]
    #15239999 - 10/17/11 06:56 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I have a general idea of what it's about. I guess it would depend on how good Soma made me feel. :lol:


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: 4896744]
    #15240012 - 10/17/11 06:58 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

According to the book it makes you feel AMAZING. :raveface:


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #15240036 - 10/17/11 07:03 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
We can condition them from birth, à la Brave New World.




Nice one. :thumbup:

The utopia in Brave New World is far from equal though.


Well in terms of the level of happiness that each person experiences, it is.




I guess that is the most important part. There is an anomaly in the story though. The main character failed in his social conditioning...


The reason his conditioning failed is because alcohol was accidentally put into his blood-surrogate; had this accident not occurred, he would have been an ordinary Alpha Plus.

You should watch the movie, I really enjoyed it.


Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Have you read Island yet?

IMO, the society portrayed in that book is preferable to the one portrayed in Brave New World.




Didn't know they had a book that continues Brave New World. Is the Bernard Marx the main character again?


Island is not a sequel of Brave New World. I suggest you read it though, it is my favorite book by Huxley (who happens to be my favorite author). :smile:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: Poid]
    #15240071 - 10/17/11 07:10 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

It said that the alcohol part was a guess, but what you said was probably what Huxley was implying. I put Island under my to read list. Will read it when I have the time. :thumbup:


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #15240125 - 10/17/11 07:23 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
It said that the alcohol part was a guess, but what you said was probably what Huxley was implying.


Yeah I think you're actually right. In the movie, there is a scene where the accident occurs; I haven't read the book in a while, so I was thinking earlier that the same scene occurred in the book too.


Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
Will read it when I have the time. :thumbup:


It's kind of a long book, but totally worth it IMO. :thumbup:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: Poid]
    #15240206 - 10/17/11 07:38 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
It said that the alcohol part was a guess, but what you said was probably what Huxley was implying.


Yeah I think you're actually right. In the movie, there is a scene where the accident occurs; I haven't read the book in a while, so I was thinking earlier that the same scene occurred in the book too.




I'm not sure though. I think they were basing the guess on the fact that the alcohol incident has happened before. Judging by the fact that it was mentioned probably means that Huxley wanted us to make the connection you made.I only remembered the alcohol part because you mentioned it though. That's when I also made the connection. Before that I could only remember that he was an anomaly, which is common in utopian stories. :grin:

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
Will read it when I have the time. :thumbup:


It's kind of a long book, but totally worth it IMO. :thumbup:




Is it without a hierarchy? I still haven't read a utopia that portrays a world without one. If this is it, then the longer it is the better, especially if it's from Huxley. :grin:


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #15240244 - 10/17/11 07:47 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
It said that the alcohol part was a guess, but what you said was probably what Huxley was implying.


Yeah I think you're actually right. In the movie, there is a scene where the accident occurs; I haven't read the book in a while, so I was thinking earlier that the same scene occurred in the book too.




I'm not sure though. I think they were basing the guess on the fact that the alcohol incident has happened before. Judging by the fact that it was mentioned probably means that Huxley wanted us to make the connection you made.I only remembered the alcohol part because you mentioned it though. That's when I also made the connection. Before that I could only remember that he was an anomaly, which is common in utopian stories. :grin:


I don't think it was explicitly established (in the book) that alcohol was accidentally put in his blood surrogate. I'll have to go back and re-read it the be sure though...


Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
Will read it when I have the time. :thumbup:


It's kind of a long book, but totally worth it IMO. :thumbup:




Is it without a hierarchy?


Nope, there is some sort of hierarchy. For example, there are certain types of people who are not allowed to enter into politics.


Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
I still haven't read a utopia that portrays a world without one. If this is it, then the longer it is the better, especially if it's from Huxley. :grin:


What is so bad about there being a hierarchy in society? As long as everybody is content, why would the fact that this contentedness/safety is supported by a hierarchy matter?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: Poid]
    #15240284 - 10/17/11 07:54 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
Will read it when I have the time. :thumbup:


It's kind of a long book, but totally worth it IMO. :thumbup:




Is it without a hierarchy?


Nope, there is some sort of hierarchy. For example, there are certain types of people who are not allowed to enter into politics.




I wonder who wouldn't be allowed to enter into politics in a ideal society? :strokebeard:

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
I still haven't read a utopia that portrays a world without one. If this is it, then the longer it is the better, especially if it's from Huxley. :grin:


What is so bad about there being a hierarchy in society? As long as everybody is content, why would the fact that this contentedness/safety is supported by a hierarchy matter?




I wasn't trying to imply that it would necessarily be better, but it would be be considered equality though. The main reason I want to read a utopia without hierarchy is because I have no idea how it could work.


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #15240370 - 10/17/11 08:15 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
I wonder who wouldn't be allowed to enter into politics in a ideal society? :strokebeard:


In Island, people who are deemed too aggressive to become politicians, and who would benefit society better as laborers aren't allowed enter into politics.

http://www.huxley.net/island/
Quote:

The Palanese believe in making the best of all worlds.As well as understanding that people are a part of the universe, they are also taught to understand themselves individually. As in the Hindu Panchantra, children explore themselves through animal fables. Taoists believe that in every man, there is a clever person, a know-it-all, but each person must reach beyond these parts of his personality to the basically good "inner nature". In the Palanese society, science and religion are combined to reach this inner self. For example, the Palanese found there were two types of children who would become dominant adults. Pills are used to control the personality of one type and the other is taught to engage in tasks that enable him to work off his aggressions.



I think that is a good system because it prevents aggressive assholes from attaining positions of power.


Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
The main reason I want to read a utopia without hierarchy is because I have no idea how it could work.


I don't think it could ever work; I think the "pure Alpha society" experiment in Brave New World explains quite well why the stability of human societies depends on a hierarchy of some sort.

http://www.huxley.net/bnw/sixteen.html
Quote:

"I was wondering," said the Savage, "why you had them at all–seeing that you can get whatever you want out of those bottles. Why don't you make everybody an Alpha Double Plus while you're about it?"
Mustapha Mond laughed. "Because we have no wish to have our throats cut," he answered. "We believe in happiness and stability. A society of Alphas couldn't fail to be unstable and miserable. Imagine a factory staffed by Alphas–that is to say by separate and unrelated individuals of good heredity and conditioned so as to be capable (within limits) of making a free choice and assuming responsibilities. Imagine it!" he repeated.
The Savage tried to imagine it, not very successfully.
"It's an absurdity. An Alpha-decanted, Alpha-conditioned man would go mad if he had to do Epsilon Semi-Moron work–go mad, or start smashing things up. Alphas can be completely socialized–but only on condition that you make them do Alpha work. Only an Epsilon can be expected to make Epsilon sacrifices, for the good reason that for him they aren't sacrifices; they're the line of least resistance. His conditioning has laid down rails along which he's got to run. He can't help himself; he's foredoomed. Even after decanting, he's still inside a bottle–an invisible bottle of infantile and embryonic fixations. Each one of us, of course," the Controller meditatively continued, "goes through life inside a bottle. But if we happen to be Alphas, our bottles are, relatively speaking, enormous. We should suffer acutely if we were confined in a narrower space. You cannot pour upper-caste champagne-surrogate into lower-caste bottles. It's obvious theoretically. But it has also been proved in actual practice. The result of the Cyprus experiment was convincing."
"What was that?" asked the Savage.
Mustapha Mond smiled. "Well, you can call it an experiment in rebottling if you like. It began in A.F. 473. The Controllers had the island of Cyprus cleared of all its existing inhabitants and re-colonized with a specially prepared batch of twenty-two thousand Alphas. All agricultural and industrial equipment was handed over to them and they were left to manage their own affairs. The result exactly fulfilled all the theoretical predictions. The land wasn't properly worked; there were strikes in all the factories; the laws were set at naught, orders disobeyed; all the people detailed for a spell of low-grade work were perpetually intriguing for high-grade jobs, and all the people with high-grade jobs were counter-intriguing at all costs to stay where they were. Within six years they were having a first-class civil war. When nineteen out of the twenty-two thousand had been killed, the survivors unanimously petitioned the World Controllers to resume the government of the island. Which they did. And that was the end of the only society of Alphas that the world has ever seen."




--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Equal opportunities [Re: Poid]
    #15250377 - 10/20/11 12:21 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
I wonder who wouldn't be allowed to enter into politics in a ideal society? :strokebeard:


In Island, people who are deemed too aggressive to become politicians, and who would benefit society better as laborers aren't allowed enter into politics.

http://www.huxley.net/island/
Quote:

The Palanese believe in making the best of all worlds.As well as understanding that people are a part of the universe, they are also taught to understand themselves individually. As in the Hindu Panchantra, children explore themselves through animal fables. Taoists believe that in every man, there is a clever person, a know-it-all, but each person must reach beyond these parts of his personality to the basically good "inner nature". In the Palanese society, science and religion are combined to reach this inner self. For example, the Palanese found there were two types of children who would become dominant adults. Pills are used to control the personality of one type and the other is taught to engage in tasks that enable him to work off his aggressions.



I think that is a good system because it prevents aggressive assholes from attaining positions of power.


Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
The main reason I want to read a utopia without hierarchy is because I have no idea how it could work.


I don't think it could ever work; I think the "pure Alpha society" experiment in Brave New World explains quite well why the stability of human societies depends on a hierarchy of some sort.

http://www.huxley.net/bnw/sixteen.html
Quote:

"I was wondering," said the Savage, "why you had them at all–seeing that you can get whatever you want out of those bottles. Why don't you make everybody an Alpha Double Plus while you're about it?"
Mustapha Mond laughed. "Because we have no wish to have our throats cut," he answered. "We believe in happiness and stability. A society of Alphas couldn't fail to be unstable and miserable. Imagine a factory staffed by Alphas–that is to say by separate and unrelated individuals of good heredity and conditioned so as to be capable (within limits) of making a free choice and assuming responsibilities. Imagine it!" he repeated.
The Savage tried to imagine it, not very successfully.
"It's an absurdity. An Alpha-decanted, Alpha-conditioned man would go mad if he had to do Epsilon Semi-Moron work–go mad, or start smashing things up. Alphas can be completely socialized–but only on condition that you make them do Alpha work. Only an Epsilon can be expected to make Epsilon sacrifices, for the good reason that for him they aren't sacrifices; they're the line of least resistance. His conditioning has laid down rails along which he's got to run. He can't help himself; he's foredoomed. Even after decanting, he's still inside a bottle–an invisible bottle of infantile and embryonic fixations. Each one of us, of course," the Controller meditatively continued, "goes through life inside a bottle. But if we happen to be Alphas, our bottles are, relatively speaking, enormous. We should suffer acutely if we were confined in a narrower space. You cannot pour upper-caste champagne-surrogate into lower-caste bottles. It's obvious theoretically. But it has also been proved in actual practice. The result of the Cyprus experiment was convincing."
"What was that?" asked the Savage.
Mustapha Mond smiled. "Well, you can call it an experiment in rebottling if you like. It began in A.F. 473. The Controllers had the island of Cyprus cleared of all its existing inhabitants and re-colonized with a specially prepared batch of twenty-two thousand Alphas. All agricultural and industrial equipment was handed over to them and they were left to manage their own affairs. The result exactly fulfilled all the theoretical predictions. The land wasn't properly worked; there were strikes in all the factories; the laws were set at naught, orders disobeyed; all the people detailed for a spell of low-grade work were perpetually intriguing for high-grade jobs, and all the people with high-grade jobs were counter-intriguing at all costs to stay where they were. Within six years they were having a first-class civil war. When nineteen out of the twenty-two thousand had been killed, the survivors unanimously petitioned the World Controllers to resume the government of the island. Which they did. And that was the end of the only society of Alphas that the world has ever seen."








Is it really a hiearchy that the Palanese have in the book? Because it sounds like it's more of a "different roles for different people with different strengths" kind of thing to me. I haven't read it though - how does Island handle class and social "level"?

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