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Invisiblehelix
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is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? * 1
    #15238726 - 10/17/11 02:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Here's an idea that has served me incredibly in developing myself and having incredible human relationships that I once never dreamed I could have. As a result I'm convinced of its truth.

Miscommunication and misunderstanding can not only be understood as between people, but also within an individual who is miscommunicating to himself or misunderstanding/interperting his own inner-voice.

This idea is also assuming that there there are enough resources to sustain every human on the planet and therefore there is no conflict of interest in terms of resources or property/wealth. Whether that will last much longer because of the way resources are so unevenly distributed by capitalism, or because of how much faster our technological and scientific processes have grown (and consequently population) than our ethical application of those processes, is another story, but let's assume that there is a proper wealth and resource redistribution system at work in which everyone has exactly how much they need to survive and no more or less (what sort of system/governing plan that may lead to that we can leave up to the political forum).

That's a lot of assumptions, I know and on a smaller scale, they need not apply. They're just for macro application.

Now back to the original theory, All conflict is just miscommunication/misunderstanding. Discuss :popcorn:

Edited by helix (10/17/11 02:18 PM)

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OfflineVsnares.Zappa
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Re: is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? [Re: helix]
    #15238740 - 10/17/11 02:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I think that the key to succesfuls relationships is communication and sincerity. otherwise its a downward spiral of shitty feelings. my 2cents

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OfflinePacmanpth
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Re: is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #15238783 - 10/17/11 02:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I believe you are correct, and intend to learn and seek until I eliminate my own misunderstandings and miscommunication, and to serve the planet until they disappear there as well (may not happen in my lifetime, but it's still worth doing)

Misunderstanding your own inner voice, and moreover, misunderstanding where your own inner voice comes from, I believe is a very important perception to be aware of.

Edited by Pacmanpth (10/17/11 02:35 PM)

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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Re: is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? [Re: Vsnares.Zappa]
    #15238808 - 10/17/11 02:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding?

No. There are a shitload of reasons for conflict. Those are just two possible ones.

Miscommunication and misunderstanding can not only be understood as between people, but also within an individual who is miscommunicating to himself or misunderstanding/interperting his own inner-voice.

True. :thumbup:

This idea is also assuming that there there are enough resources to sustain every human on the planet and therefore there is no conflict of interest in terms of resources or property/wealth. Whether that will last much longer because of the way resources are so unevenly distributed by capitalism, or because of how much faster our technological and scientific processes have grown (and consequently population) than our ethical application of those processes, is another story, but let's assume that there is a proper wealth and resource redistribution system at work in which everyone has exactly how much they need to survive and no more or less (what sort of system/governing plan that may lead to that we can leave up to the political forum).

Yeah. Only people that should be allowed to make that kind of decision are the posters in the political forum.  :rolleyes:

That's a lot of assumptions, I know and on a smaller scale, they need not apply. They're just for macro application.

I'm macro discarding them right now.

Now back to the original theory, All conflict is just miscommunication/misunderstanding. Discuss :popcorn:

So that wasn't part of the theory? :confused:


--------------------
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"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #15238820 - 10/17/11 02:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding?

No. There are a shitload of reasons for conflict. Those are just two possible ones.



:thumbup:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Invisiblehelix
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Re: is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #15238865 - 10/17/11 02:51 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding?

No. There are a shitload of reasons for conflict. Those are just two possible ones.



:thumbup:




list some of the other reasons, and I will try to explain as best as I can how that when broken down, it's actually just a misunderstanding/miscommunication...
assuming, like I said,

that there there are enough resources to sustain every human on the planet and therefore there is no conflict of interest in terms of resources or property/wealth....there is a proper wealth and resource redistribution system at work in which everyone has exactly how much they need to survive and no more or less (what sort of system/governing plan that may lead to that we can leave up to the political forum).

Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:

Yeah. Only people that should be allowed to make that kind of decision are the posters in the political forum.  :rolleyes:




I'm just trying to keep it philosophical rather than political so that people don't complain, "that's more political than philosophical" there's no reason to get condescending if I made an error in judgment.

Edited by helix (10/17/11 02:52 PM)

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Invisiblehelix
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Re: is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? [Re: Pacmanpth]
    #15238889 - 10/17/11 02:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Pacmanpth said:
I believe you are correct, and intend to learn and seek until I eliminate my own misunderstandings and miscommunication, and to serve the planet until they disappear there as well (may not happen in my lifetime, but it's still worth doing)

Misunderstanding your own inner voice, and moreover, misunderstanding where your own inner voice comes from, I believe is a very important perception to be aware of.




glad you see where i'm coming from and are as interested in I am in the way communication is the key to both internal and external/mass peace :awethumb:

I wanna see how dissentors can argue against it though to better defend the position though :strokebeard:

Edited by helix (10/17/11 02:56 PM)

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Re: is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? [Re: helix] * 1
    #15238895 - 10/17/11 02:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

aronf13 said:
list some of the other reasons, and I will try to explain as best as I can how that is actually just a misunderstanding/miscommunication...


Let's say I slap some random guy in the face for no other reason than to get a cheap laugh, and he kicks my ass as a result. How, in this scenario, did conflict emerge out of misunderstanding/miscommunication?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflinePacmanpth
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Re: is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? [Re: Poid]
    #15238913 - 10/17/11 03:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

aronf13 said:
list some of the other reasons, and I will try to explain as best as I can how that is actually just a misunderstanding/miscommunication...


Let's say I slap some random guy in the face for no reason other than to get a cheap laugh, and he kicks my ass as a result. How, in this scenario, did conflict emerge out of misunderstanding/miscommunication?




His misunderstanding in thinking that kicking anyones' ass solves anything.

Your misunderstanding in thinking that slapping someone in the face is a productive way to create amusement.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? [Re: Pacmanpth]
    #15238936 - 10/17/11 03:06 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Pacmanpth said:
His misunderstanding in thinking that kicking anyones' ass solves anything.


It seems like you are assuming that kicking someone's ass can't solve anything.


Quote:

Pacmanpth said:
Your misunderstanding in thinking that slapping someone in the face is a productive way to create amusement.


What makes you think that, in this scenario, I slapped the random guy in the face due to a misunderstanding that doing so is a productive way to create amusement? What makes you think that productiveness, in this scenario, is something that I'm concerned about?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Invisiblehelix
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Re: is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? [Re: Poid]
    #15238951 - 10/17/11 03:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

aronf13 said:
list some of the other reasons, and I will try to explain as best as I can how that is actually just a misunderstanding/miscommunication...


Let's say I slap some random guy in the face for no reason other than to get a cheap laugh, and he kicks my ass as a result. How, in this situation, did conflict emerge out of misunderstanding/miscommunication?




okay, let's see...
In this instance, you are miscommunicating to yourself.
There is a misinterpretation that method A) slapping a stranger
is the most optimal approach to achieve B) a cheap laugh
by discounting or failing to take into account the inadvertent result: that the receiver of the slap is ALSO a conscious individual who does not like being physically abused, and therefore will want to retaliate.
If you take in all the information available to you , then the logical step is not to slap a stranger and find a less hurtful way to have a cheap laugh, because it is in your benefit to not have someone trying to hurt you.

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Invisiblehelix
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Re: is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? [Re: Poid]
    #15238973 - 10/17/11 03:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Pacmanpth said:
His misunderstanding in thinking that kicking anyones' ass solves anything.


It seems like you are assuming that kicking someone's ass can't solve anything.




It can solve things only as far as the person kicking the ass fails to take into account the will of the other person. This is a misunderstanding.
Once you realize there is another person on the other side, there is a miscommunication going on within the person kicking the ass


Quote:

Pacmanpth said:
Your misunderstanding in thinking that slapping someone in the face is a productive way to create amusement.


What makes you think that, in this scenario, I slapped the random guy in the face due to a misunderstanding that doing so is a productive way to create amusement? What makes you think that productiveness, in this scenario, is something that I'm concerned about?



this is based on an assumption about the 7 properties of life:

undergo metabolism, maintain homeostasis, possess a capacity to grow, respond to stimuli, reproduce and, through natural selection, adapt to their environment in successive generations.

Since we are living, we have those properties, and it seems to me in this particular example you are flying in the face of some of those

Edited by helix (10/17/11 03:23 PM)

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? [Re: helix]
    #15238977 - 10/17/11 03:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

aronf13 said:
There is a misinterpretation that method A) slapping a stranger
is the most optimal approach to achieve B) a cheap laugh...


Why do you assume that, in this scenario, I am under the impression that slapping a stranger is the most optimal approach to achieving a cheap laugh?


Quote:

aronf13 said:
...by discounting or failing to take into account the inadvertent result: that the receiver of the slap is ALSO a conscious individual who does not like being physically abused, and therefore will want to retaliate.


Why do you assume that, in this scenario, I failed to take that into account?


Quote:

aronf13 said:
If you take in all the information available to you , then the logical step is not to slap a stranger and find a less hurtful way to have a cheap laugh, because it is in your benefit to not have someone trying to hurt you.


Sure it may have been a tad illogical, and even downright stupid, but this does not necessarily mean that it was the result of miscommunication/misunderstanding. In this scenario, I fully understand the potential consequences, but I disregard them.

There is no "miscommunication with myself" going on in this scenario.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (10/17/11 03:29 PM)

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? [Re: helix]
    #15238995 - 10/17/11 03:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

aronf13 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Pacmanpth said:
His misunderstanding in thinking that kicking anyones' ass solves anything.


It seems like you are assuming that kicking someone's ass can't solve anything.




It can solve things only as far as the person kicking the ass fails to take into account the will of the other person.


What is your justification for this assertion?


Quote:

aronf13 said:
Once you realize there is another person on the other side, there is a miscommunication going on within the person kicking the ass


And what miscommunication is that? Might you describe it in some detail?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Invisiblehelix
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Re: is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? [Re: Poid]
    #15239010 - 10/17/11 03:25 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

i'm quickly realizing that this theory has plenty of assumptions built into it borrowed from science, psychology, etc.  and ultimately there is no way we can prove science and psychology 100% anyway...

Edited by helix (10/17/11 03:27 PM)

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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Re: is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? [Re: helix]
    #15239013 - 10/17/11 03:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

aronf13 said:
Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding?

No. There are a shitload of reasons for conflict. Those are just two possible ones.



:thumbup:




list some of the other reasons, and I will try to explain as best as I can how that when broken down, it's actually just a misunderstanding/miscommunication...
assuming, like I said,

that there there are enough resources to sustain every human on the planet and therefore there is no conflict of interest in terms of resources or property/wealth....there is a proper wealth and resource redistribution system at work in which everyone has exactly how much they need to survive and no more or less (what sort of system/governing plan that may lead to that we can leave up to the political forum).




How do you know that resources on the planet not being equally distributed is due to miscommunication/misunderstanding?

Quote:

aronf13 said:
Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:

Yeah. Only people that should be allowed to make that kind of decision are the posters in the political forum.  :rolleyes:




I'm just trying to keep it philosophical rather than political so that people don't complain, "that's more political than philosophical" there's no reason to get condescending if I made an error in judgment.




Sorry. I just don't like hearing that only certain people should discuss politics. Everyone should be discussing politics, since it runs everyone's life. And politics has a lot to do with sociology, psychology and even philosophy, so I see no reason it should only apply to the political forum.


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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Invisiblehelix
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Re: is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? [Re: Poid]
    #15239041 - 10/17/11 03:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

aronf13 said:
There is a misinterpretation that method A) slapping a stranger
is the most optimal approach to achieve B) a cheap laugh...


Why do you assume that, in this scenario, I am under the impression that slapping a stranger is the most optimal approach to achieve a cheap laugh?

Quote:

aronf13 said:
...by discounting or failing to take into account the inadvertent result: that the receiver of the slap is ALSO a conscious individual who does not like being physically abused, and therefore will want to retaliate.


Why do you assume that, in this scenario, I failed to take that into account?


Quote:

aronf13 said:
If you take in all the information available to you , then the logical step is not to slap a stranger and find a less hurtful way to have a cheap laugh, because it is in your benefit to not have someone trying to hurt you.


Sure it may have been a tad illogical, and even downright stupid, but this does not necessarily mean that it was the result of miscommunication/misunderstanding. In this scenario, I fully understand the potential consequences, but I disregard them.

There is no "miscommunication with myself" going on in this scenario.




I would ask in this case, why do you disregard them? Assuming you are a living organism and therefore your goals involve the 7 properties of life...of course I am assuming that IS your goal and therefore there might be no philosophical grounding for this theory because it's based on assumptions about the nature of life made by scientific observations which can never be 100% accurate

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Invisiblehelix
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Re: is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? [Re: Poid]
    #15239055 - 10/17/11 03:34 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

aronf13 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Pacmanpth said:
His misunderstanding in thinking that kicking anyones' ass solves anything.


It seems like you are assuming that kicking someone's ass can't solve anything.




It can solve things only as far as the person kicking the ass fails to take into account the will of the other person.


What is your justification for this assertion?

because scientific observation shows that the will of the other person involves their personal well-being, and therefore they will retalitate.

However, that involves an assumption made by science and psychology, which can never be 100% i suppose

Quote:

aronf13 said:
Once you realize there is another person on the other side, there is a miscommunication going on within the person kicking the ass


And what miscommunication is that? Might you describe it in some detail?




it involves assumptions made by psychology, so like I said, if i go into further detail i think i will hit the same roadblock, because science can never be 100% true

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Invisiblehelix
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Re: is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? [Re: helix]
    #15239084 - 10/17/11 03:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

the definition of pain: "It motivates withdrawal from damaging or potentially damaging situations, protection of a damaged body part while it heals, and avoidance of similar experiences in the future."

As living organisms we feel pain and the definition of pain involves "avoidance of similar experiences in the future"

Once again, there's an assumption there that the person in this scenario doesn't want pain, but then I would question why they're trying to deny the 7 properties of life...once again there are assumptions at work here from science and psychology

Edited by helix (10/17/11 03:40 PM)

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Re: is all conflict just miscommunication/misunderstanding? [Re: helix]
    #15239095 - 10/17/11 03:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

aronf13 said:
I would ask in this case, why do you disregard them?


Let's say I figured that I'd be able to avoid the potential consequences if it came to it, either by running away or kicking the guy's ass.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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