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drr

Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,444
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Re: Getting High on Krystle [Re: casablanca]
#15198023 - 10/08/11 09:18 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't like this kid giving these interviews. I watched the Shulgin one and it was awkward.
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ReoSpeedwagon153


Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 2,098
Loc: Chetumal, Mexico
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Re: Getting High on Krystle [Re: lepiota69]
#15198101 - 10/08/11 09:41 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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Kinda feel like you didnt read what I wrote...
I was only familiar with the name tue because of the cosmic serpent (jeremy narby), but that's not why I called him ignorant. This went beyond 'worshipping' a shaman or something silly like that. It struck me as just plain rude. The shaman took him out into the forest to gather the ayahuasca, and when they arrived at the plant, he treated the whole situation (especially this plant that his gracious host obviously considers sacred) with utter disrespect.
It's not about shamans being all knowing or something, it's about some idiot american druggie being embarassingly culturally ignorant.
At no point did the shaman in question offer this kid any datura. It's well known that ayahuasca is sometimes brewed with small, barely psychoactive amounts of datura sp. as admixtures, and the shaman was just mentioning this practice because the kid asked if anyone he knows of uses admixture plants.
This is a weird thread-jack, but I guess it was mostly dead by now anyway.
-------------------- “I thought naming myself ‘ReoSpeedwagon153’ on a forum was a funny idea in 2006.”
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russhroom
Plateful of Grateful



Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 663
Loc: Colorado
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i hate that fucking neuro soup bitch.
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⛧
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dwpineal
Psychedelic Artist



Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 4,667
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Re: Getting High on Krystle [Re: joemolloy]
#15204805 - 10/10/11 11:04 AM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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Log in to view attachment
Quote:
joemolloy said: I was thinking about Todd and his use of intravenous DMT for hours upon hours. You would think that if the drug had something to offer in the sense of enlightenment, secrets, revelations or anything - that he would have gotten the message, a message, or something that could have assisted him in life. Todd, Pickard, and Krystal took huge amounts of psychedelics and what do they have to show for it? Broken and sad lives, not unlike the crackheads or meth-heads. No Einsteins, no Crickes, no Mullis, no Beatles. Fucking garbage.
Hey there Joe! I've seen people post things that they thought were the result of taking a psychedelic drug, and you would come into the thread and say that experience, insight, etc. was always in the person and psychedelics had little to nothing to do with bringing "it" to the surface.
But now, when people have broken sad lives, and also have taken a lot of psychedelics - there is a sudden correlation...
So do psychedelics bring about differences in people, or no? Just wondering, since this seemed to be askew to your usual views. I know people learn and grow, so just trying to gain a little insight, no disrespect!
Also if you're interested, Mullis, Crick, Jobs, etc - are not the only people who have had insights from psychedelics. There was active research going on in 1966, up until the moment the FDA shut down all psychedelic research - into the use of psychedelics for creative problem solving. Now since that FDA shut-down much of the research has continued underground and unpublished - so society does not get the benefit of the research. In fact the FDA asked all psychedelic researchers NOT to publish their data, legally gathered prior to the shut-down - luckily not all researchers listened.
Anyway this is turning into a bit of a thread-jack, so I will post a quote from the research and maybe go create a new thread on this topic -
Quote:
Pragmatic Utility of Solutions The practical value of obtained solutions is a check against subjective reports of accomplishment which might be attributable to temporary euphoria. The nature of these solutions was varied; they included: (1) a new approach to the design of a vibratory microtome, (2) a commercial building design accepted by client, (3) space probe experiments devised to measure solar properties, (4) design of a linear electron accelerator beam-steering device, (5) engineering improvement to magnetic tape recorder, (6) a chair design modeled and accepted by manufacturer, (7) a letterhead design approved by customer, (8) a mathematical theorem regarding NOR-gate circuits, (9) completion of a furniture line design, (10) a new conceptual model of a photon which was found useful, and ( 11 ) design of a private dwelling approved by the client.
The over-all tally, obtained by questionnaire, showed out of 44 problems attempted; 1 on which there had been no further activity for a month or more after the date of the problem-solving session, 20 on which new avenues for further investigation had been opened, 1 on which a developmental model to test the solution had been authorized, 2 on which a working model had been completed, 6 for which the solution had been accepted for construction or production, 10 for which the partial solution obtained was being developed further or being applied in practice, and 4 for which no solution was obtained.
New thread on using Psychedelics for problem solving, so as not to de-rail this one...
Light and Love, DW
Edited by dwpineal (10/10/11 11:20 AM)
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joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
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Re: Getting High on Krystle [Re: dwpineal]
#15204955 - 10/10/11 11:39 AM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quote: Hey there Joe! I've seen people post things that they thought were the result of taking a psychedelic drug, and you would come into the thread and say that experience, insight, etc. was always in the person and psychedelics had little to nothing to do with bringing "it" to the surface.
But now, when people have broken sad lives, and also have taken a lot of psychedelics - there is a sudden correlation...
So do psychedelics bring about differences in people, or no? Just wondering, since this seemed to be askew to your usual views. I know people learn and grow, so just trying to gain a little insight, no disrespect!
Also if you're interested, Mullis, Crick, Jobs, etc - are not the only people who have had insights from psychedelics. There was active research going on in 1966, up until the moment the FDA shut down all psychedelic research - into the use of psychedelics for creative problem solving. Now since that FDA shut-down much of the research has continued underground and unpublished - so society does not get the benefit of the research. In fact the FDA asked all psychedelic researchers NOT to publish their data, legally gathered prior to the shut-down - luckily not all researchers listened.
I'm not sure what role psychedelics played in the lives of the characters in this story, but they certainly didn't seem to improve, benefit, or help anyone. I suspect the drugs created or exacerbated mental issues and ultimately hammered a few nails in their coffins.
I still consistently maintain that the vast majority of users of these drugs gain few real benefits and suffer from negative side-effects after sustained and consistent use. Integration is thinly veiled rationalization and justification to continue to get fucked up on this special class of drugs that seems to have a good propaganda machine behind them.
I've read the studies and the books on psychedelic research and perhaps in an alternate reality these positive benefits could be realized, but from my time spent perusing psychedelic forums, I see depressingly little evidence of anything positive. Do these sites represent all users? I'd say they generalize a large swath of them and feel comfortable with my conclusion. Sure, psychedelics are better than heroin or meth, but the beauty contest is full of ugly bitches and first place among those whores is nothing to brag about.
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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Seanfu
Jesus Christ Tacos

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 2,131
Loc: Brazil
Last seen: 11 years, 17 days
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Quote:
ReoSpeedwagon153 said: Shouldn't we all have realized that psychedelics do not necessarily lead to enlightenment or anything good around the time of the tate murders in '69?
Not to be too much of a nut but I think if I was the government trying to ban LSD I would have an agent go around killing people on it.
-------------------- I am a chronic liar.
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dwpineal
Psychedelic Artist



Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 4,667
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Re: Getting High on Krystle [Re: joemolloy]
#15205523 - 10/10/11 01:53 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
joemolloy said:
I'm not sure what role psychedelics played in the lives of the characters in this story, but they certainly didn't seem to improve, benefit, or help anyone...
I still consistently maintain that the vast majority of users of these drugs gain few real benefits and suffer from negative side-effects after sustained and consistent use. Integration is thinly veiled rationalization and justification to continue to get fucked up on this special class of drugs that seems to have a good propaganda machine behind them.
I've read the studies and the books on psychedelic research and perhaps in an alternate reality these positive benefits could be realized, but from my time spent perusing psychedelic forums, I see depressingly little evidence of anything positive. Do these sites represent all users? I'd say they generalize a large swath of them and feel comfortable with my conclusion.
Right these are some of the issues I'd like to address. I actually agree with you 100% that looking around the forums and even working really intensely with psychedelics on an individual level does not give someone proficiency in actualizing benefits from psychedelics - Does that mean that there are no benefits? Or that they simply cannot be actualized?
In my opinion, there were people working on developing systems for working with these substances to bring about REAL and measurable changes. MEASURABLE being the operative word. We're not talking about someone writing a poem after a trip (that subjectively could be wonderful or garbage depending on the listener/reader) - we're talking about fundamental advances in sciences - read the results I quoted above, far from being abstract hopes of hippies that they "got something" out of the trip, these are professionals and executives (think garbage in/garbage out) - and they are working with people developing systems for working with these substances.
The vast majority of users of psychedelics have absolutely NO roadmap - so yes, people are swimming in a sea of amorphous wonder - without realizing that things go deeper.
I find it hard to swallow a concept like Quote:
psychedelics...certainly didn't seem to improve, benefit, or help anyone.
What you see on the internet forums - is people trying to figure out how to use these successfully, some have a level of success and try to share that.
Now this book brings out a whole new level of possibilities. I think most of mainstream society is under a similar impression as the one you give of psychedelics and people who use them. Partly because of this, research being halted - there is no cultural frame of reference for using psychedelics for things other than "fun."
Most of the (if not all the) research into the benefits of psychedelics was done prior to 1966 (with the exception of a few recent studies) - so we're talking almost 45 years where people only thought of these things as fringe, dirty, insane, etc.
I'm just saying the rabbit hole is deeper than it may appear. I believe with the right information and research our understanding of these substances and the way they interact with humanity, we will see a total transformation in the cultural views on psychedelics.
I also have plenty of real-world measurable benefits from psychedelics. The art I create is completely and wholly because of and in honor of the psychedelic experience. (Now of course we're back to ART, which is very much in the eye of the beholder - But I am just saying I have something tangible that I can hold onto that I have been able to bring back from the other side...)
Love ya brother! DW
P.S. in terms of Krystle, Skinner, Pickard and that whole crew...what a mess!
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joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
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Re: Getting High on Krystle [Re: dwpineal]
#15205597 - 10/10/11 02:12 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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All good points, dwpineal. Its really the wild west with these drugs and perhaps if the anarchy can be tamed, there might be some useful directions that can lead to progress for individual users. Of course the previous sentence assumes that the psychological chaos unleashed during a trip even has the potential to be channeled in a positive way. I'm not sure it has much more utility or functional potential than a dream which is comprised of similarly fragmented thoughts and ideas or the ramblings of schizophrenic who may stumble upon gold amidst the bullshit.
I do think that limited use of the drugs has the most potential for something positive, but over a period of sustained use and with higher doses, that hope fades and more negative outcomes are likely. I believe that to be true even if the research and methodology becomes more standardized and reliable. Anyway, always a pleasure having a civil discussion about these wacky drugs.
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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i like cow poo
Nature Lover


Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 4,041
Loc: Mother Nature's Vagina
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Getting High on Krystle [Re: joemolloy]
#15207093 - 10/10/11 07:15 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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I mean shit Joe, I'm sure people profit from psychedelics sometimes. Thats like saying caffeine hardly EVER improves someones life. There are cases where it brings about true releasations on lifestyle choices.
I for one would not be as close to nature without psychedelics (I am fairly certain)
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joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
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Quote:
I mean shit Joe, I'm sure people profit from psychedelics sometimes.
I know, my posts always leave the door open a sliver. Its a real slight crack though.
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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R2-D2
horseradish


Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 945
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: Getting High on Krystle [Re: joemolloy]
#15207830 - 10/10/11 11:38 PM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
joemolloy said: Anyway, always a pleasure having a civil discussion about these wacky drugs.
luv u
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i like cow poo
Nature Lover


Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 4,041
Loc: Mother Nature's Vagina
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Getting High on Krystle [Re: joemolloy]
#15208463 - 10/11/11 06:33 AM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
joemolloy said:
Quote:
I mean shit Joe, I'm sure people profit from psychedelics sometimes.
I know, my posts always leave the door open a sliver. Its a real slight crack though.
Fair enough Do you still do psychedelics? Or any other drugs? Just curious I won't hold it against ya
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joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
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I had a pretty crazy cactus trip about five weeks ago, but the time between trips is getting longer and longer. I don't do any drugs besides psychedelics though.
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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dwpineal
Psychedelic Artist



Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 4,667
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Re: Getting High on Krystle [Re: joemolloy]
#15208671 - 10/11/11 08:13 AM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
joemolloy said: All good points, dwpineal. Its really the wild west with these drugs and perhaps if the anarchy can be tamed, there might be some useful directions that can lead to progress for individual users. Of course the previous sentence assumes that the psychological chaos unleashed during a trip even has the potential to be channeled in a positive way. I'm not sure it has much more utility or functional potential than a dream which is comprised of similarly fragmented thoughts and ideas or the ramblings of schizophrenic who may stumble upon gold amidst the bullshit.
I do think that limited use of the drugs has the most potential for something positive, but over a period of sustained use and with higher doses, that hope fades and more negative outcomes are likely. I believe that to be true even if the research and methodology becomes more standardized and reliable. Anyway, always a pleasure having a civil discussion about these wacky drugs.

Only time will tell, but I'm optimistic
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VegasPole
Dabbler



Registered: 09/15/11
Posts: 38
Loc: North West U S of A
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: Getting High on Krystle [Re: dwpineal]
#15209443 - 10/11/11 11:45 AM (12 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wow. A secret drug lab/orgy bunker. So nuts, but doesn't really suprise me. Couches and beds everywhere...people all just living and bangin each other...just so evil. Like Sodom. LOL That's the difference between USE and ABUSE right there. Sometimes the line is thin.. but in this case it wasn't! Reminds me of the whole Jonestown Suicide deal in the 60's. Took one "leader" and a bunch of sheep that like to follow and do drugs...seems to always turn out great huh
OHYEAH and how bout the DEA fucking her and her BF over! LOL! hahaha what douches eh? they care not for anyone but themselves and their agenda. Goodlord. They could have just not said anything, but had to go so far to inform him.. BUT who knows what the truth is there. You got alot of shiesty shit goin on with alot of shady people, on LOTS of drugs. Only GOD knows. Sure woulda liked to try out some of the "newly" invented isolations of lsd and such tho!
Edited by VegasPole (10/11/11 11:51 AM)
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