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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #15204232 - 10/10/11 08:22 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Shamans were/are healers....? duh!

All Shamans?  Were't some deeply involved in the black arts?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #15204333 - 10/10/11 08:46 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Thats fucking awful :sad:


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: zzripz]
    #15204375 - 10/10/11 08:57 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
Of COURSE they have a healing effect on people. I am amazed I have to even explain this at a forum dedicated to psychedelic issues!




Well, do you have to explain it?  I can't tell what your reply has to do with my post.  Did I question whether "they" (whatever that is) have a healing effect?  I think, instead, I observed your claims weren't established and asked several questions which you've still not answered: what are the sacred plants, how to tell what a sacred plant is, what does it matter if a forum member practices 'bloody sacrifices', and so on.

Seems your entire post here, anyways, was just an appeal to incredulity.  Even if whether "they" heal anyone was relevant to my post, you sure didn't provide any evidence of your position.  I can only assume your use of capitals and italics is supposed to underscore your incredulity, but it would be better if you just made a logical point, or cited some evidence, instead.

Quote:

There is an enormous amount of information of the healing and therapeutic benefits of psychedelics both anciently and modern. Shamans were/are healers....? duh!




What does this have to do with anything?

Did anyone question whether shamans were healers or whether they could 'heal' anyone?  I don't believe so.  Instead, people asked rather particular questions and you've used fallacy and dishonest argument to avoid them.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: johnm214]
    #15204495 - 10/10/11 09:38 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i am just wonderin what planet your 'argument ' is on--or universe


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: flickedbic]
    #15204599 - 10/10/11 10:10 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

P.S.: A growing body of research evidence that homeopathic medicines have clinical effects

I will pay you a large sum of money if the next time you go have a tooth pulled out by a dentist, you have him use homeopathic anesthetics.

Note to audience: I will wager a large sum that he will not take my offer. :rolleyes:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: zzripz]
    #15204638 - 10/10/11 10:20 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
i am just wonderin what planet your 'argument ' is on--or universe





Get lost. :thumbdown:  This crap is almost always your reply to direct questions.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: flickedbic]
    #15204662 - 10/10/11 10:27 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I went on to state that Sam isn't using logic to reason and argue and that that's a sad way to live life.

Humility, I don't think you're quite getting the rules. It's against the rules to bring someone personally into the debate. You can attack what they said all you like, but you can't say anything about the person themselves.

For example, the first part of that was within the rules. It attacks an ARGUMENT based on what you perceive as a lack of logic and reason in that argument.

The second part is against the rules. It makes a comment about the person's LIFE.

Read the rules here before you post again:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4526664#4526664


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: flickedbic]
    #15204954 - 10/10/11 11:39 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

It has been proven that our intentions can influence reality in the Stanford random-number-generator mind-influence experiments.

You mean the PRINCETON Engineering Anomalies Research Lab's work (PEARL).

This is a glaring example of what I call pre-conclusions in the mystic-head community. It's where someone has already made up their mind about some magic powers and stumbles across something on the web that seems to support their beliefs.

No matter how absolutely, drop dead on the floor incredible the result, they stop right there and accept it as factual truth without the tiniest bit of cross-checking and confirming. It amounts to buying the Brooklyn Bridge from someone standing on a street corner without so much as asking to see the deed before writing the check.

The truth is that the PEARL research is to this day a painful embarrassment and ugly mark on Princeton university.

The PEARL lab operated from 1979 until it closed in 2007. Their results have been attributed to bad experimental design rather than a real measured effect. After peer-review of the results, other scientist have stated that the lab deliberately fudged results when they couldn't generate them honestly. There is an audit trail of changed numbers that are inconsistent with other audit trails of what should be the same data. Physicist Robert Park called PEARL an "embarrassment to science".

In other words, when nearly 30 years of trying to find evidence of psi failed miserably, the PEARL scientists, who are fallible humans after all, began to FAKE THE DATA in order to produce results. In 2007 this sorry example of not-science was finally closed and Princeton can't put it behind them fast enough.

I won't get into the Dr. Emoto crap as others have already done that for me, but I will note the Dr. part is fake. He does not have a PhD. He just printed one up for himself and now calls himself Dr. Emoto. And nevermind that several universities have been unable to reproduce his results, and the JREF offered him a million dollars to demonstrate his work under proper observing conditions where he can't cheat, but he declined.

It goes to show another example of pre-conclusions where people believe his astonishing claims but don't bother with the simplest cross-check to see if they are true.

Next time you bring up junk science to support your pre-conclusions, don't do it in PS&P cuz I won't let you get away with it. Try the Pub, it's easier there. :evil:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Diploid]
    #15204998 - 10/10/11 11:48 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Ouch. :curbyourenthusiasm:

Unfortunately I have never seen this evidence give one true believer even a moments pause for reflection. :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #15205095 - 10/10/11 12:06 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

This is where it all becomes words isn't it which are used to confound people ---ie., it puts people orrrf having to cross-check, look at stats 'which is what ';mystic heads' dont wanna do, right. So you just use many many words to ridicule anything that might god forbid--err is that the right terminology--threaten the sceintific mechanistic paradigm that consciousness cannot exist out of the brain---right. words words words. It all becomes words.

All I suggest to people taken in by the so-called sceptics is---an example, ask them if they even KNOW what consciousness is?

now this should be interesting



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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: zzripz]
    #15205208 - 10/10/11 12:32 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

All I suggest to people taken in by the so-called sceptics is---an example, ask them if they even KNOW what consciousness is?

A thousand years ago nobody knew what rain was either. So what?

Advances in neurological science are converging on a material explanation for consciousness and will likely have an explanation eventually. Just like 50 years ago it was "impossible" for a machine to create art or music or beat the unique human intellect of a master chess player. Today, those things are commonplace.

Not knowing how something works doesn't mean it works by magic. That's what ignorant jungle people believe and they die from infected mosquito bites so it's not much of an endorsement.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
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Registered: 12/10/09
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Diploid]
    #15205236 - 10/10/11 12:40 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)



--------------------



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Offlinezzripz
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #15205902 - 10/10/11 03:19 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

LOL DOPE video :wink: LOVE it!!

Quote:

A thousand years ago nobody knew what rain was either. So what?


made me laugh out loud!:lol:


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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #15206083 - 10/10/11 03:57 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I was into ICP in early middle-school and got way over it after that... hmm where's the hatcheting and nuts in soup; or are they reformed parents now?
And what's with that crazy Tower of Babyl thing?

"Fucking Magnets, How Do They Work?...  MIRACLES!" :tongue2: lol

Quote:

You mean the PRINCETON Engineering Anomalies Research Lab's work (PEARL).

This is a glaring example of what I call pre-conclusions in the mystic-head community. It's where someone has already made up their mind about some magic powers and stumbles across something on the web that seems to support their beliefs.

The truth is that the PEARL research is to this day is a painful embarrassment and ugly mark on Princeton university.




I have aknowledged this already in a previous page of this thread.


Quote:

I will pay you a large sum of money if the next time you go have a tooth pulled out by a dentist, you have him use homeopathic anesthetics.

Note to audience: I will wager a large sum that he will not take my offer. 




Haha got five pulled in one day +1 implanted; I got knocked out.  Felt great.

I wouldn't hesitate to take up the offer if I was to ever have another tooth pulled; upon the condition that I may first confirm homeopathic anesthetics work on my body.  I would not hesitate if I had anesthetic by hypnosis of Richard Bandler; the man who attempted to bring you the PLACEBO (c) pill (and co-creator of N.L.P.)... he tells a story of a man going to get his tooth pulled after a hypnosis session where he turned his own "pain switch" off.  :laugh:

Just gotta remember to turn it back on again as that is how lepers die; absence of pain (if I remember correctly).

A quick story: someone in my world was addicted to drugs; and sent to rehab - a halfway house type community; partially run by a gentleman who was a hypnotherapist.  In one particular session; (I was told by this "someone") he put a girl under for some work; and while doing this he suggested that she shut her hand and it would not open untill he said.  After the session was over he brought her out of trance; and it wasn't until after the group left the room that the girl realized her hand was still shut...

If one chooses hypnosis; it would have to be with someone trusted.  This hypnotherapist above was; and did help this "someone" in my life very much... I don't know if it was a mistake or not... I used to; but now think it may have been a reinforcement.

That is not to say that I think one can be forced to do anything that is against ones' will by such methods; at least not those commonly and lawfully utilized.

^That is not that I don't sometimes :mad2: when I see covert hypnosis (NLP) being used in speeches and subliminal messages for the USARMY...
The box is such a trance-machine as-is...

Blessings.
PS: Also gave girly-bird a mushroom trip by her listening to a recording of Dr. Bandler inducing an altered state.  The tape was meant to work for whatever chemical, he said; once the brain does something/experiences something; it knows the way back and the experience can be induced without the external stimuli.


--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.


Edited by flickedbic (10/10/11 04:33 PM)


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Offlinerainx
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Diploid]
    #15206706 - 10/10/11 06:09 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

"Not knowing how something works doesn't mean it works by magic. That's what ignorant jungle people believe and they die from infected mosquito bites so it's not much of an endorsement."

Consider that our enlightened technological society hasn't defeated death and a plethora of diseases and that we die of stroke, heart attack, stress, diabetes, obesity, and kidney failure.

The bottom line: nobody gets out of here alive.


--------------------
"The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna" is best source of insight into the self, universe, and the entheogen catalyzed experience. Forward by Aldous Huxley.


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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: rainx] * 1
    #15206735 - 10/10/11 06:13 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

rainx said:
"Not knowing how something works doesn't mean it works by magic. That's what ignorant jungle people believe and they die from infected mosquito bites so it's not much of an endorsement."

Consider that our enlightened technological society hasn't defeated death and a plethora of diseases and that we die of stroke, heart attack, stress, diabetes, obesity, and kidney failure.

The bottom line: nobody gets out of here alive.




....wait how is that relevant to his statement?


--------------------



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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #15206970 - 10/10/11 06:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

You came here expecting relevance? :whoa:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinezzripz
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Posts: 8,292
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #15208201 - 10/11/11 02:45 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I will have a go answering that. It is typical of the arrogant mindsets of scientific materialism that they will call ancinet peoples, 'ignorant jungle people' and whatnot--I have come up against this conceit time and time again and it is ss SO ironic that here we freakin are in 'our' 'brave new world' and this 'ever so superior' culture is in REALITY fukin destroying everything. So it is a bit rich to slag off ancient peoples who DID have knowledge about herbs and healing that we have forgoten and now push friggin drugs that have been ripped OFF from the same jungle peoples that they slag off----ie., most of the drugs you know about come from the jungles/rainforests that this culture of consumerism is deforesting at alarming rates, OBLIVIOUS to all the others healing sources there, never mind the wildlife depending on habitats to live, the peoples that live there, the very trees which provide shelter, and home for insects, birds, and which are the planets lungs. So how DARE anyone who supports this insanity call our ancestors, who know how to live sustainably in a jungle, ignorant jungle peoplen implying our culture is itself not ignorantly destroying the Web of Life.
IF you argue they found the cure for malaria, so what about the massive increase of cancers since the rise of the industrial revolution?!..........etc!


Edited by zzripz (10/11/11 02:49 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: zzripz]
    #15208526 - 10/11/11 07:01 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I agree with a lot of this post.  However I must remind myself that those jungle and forest peoples mostly became city folk down the line whenever possible. This makes me think that this change was a perfectly natural process for better or worse.

There is really not that much wrong with scientific materialism but rather a lot wrong emotionally with many of it's practitioners.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offline4896744
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: zzripz] * 3
    #15208707 - 10/11/11 08:25 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

If you want to live like people of the past there is nothing stopping you. Instead you just bitch from your climate controlled room on a computer.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:


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