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dustinthewind13
Fool



Registered: 11/05/10
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Why you always gotta poop on the party?
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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Because I have yet to do a meaningful dose.
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zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Dear ZZ,
Please tell us what ancient Central Amercian civilization embraced the use of magic mushrooms?
OK, now tell us how it cured them of violence and attitude.
Your talking about the Mayans and Aztecs? Well to them--if so--I could add the Orphics, the Gnostics, Eastern philosophies, Abrahamic religions---all at their iniate levels had access to mind-altering substances, so why then did they devise such violent dogmas and do violent actions, etc? That is a big question right, and one I have been exploring a long time, because for me I never had such feelings influenced in ME from my LSD and magic mushrooms experiences---have you? I would be interested to know YOUR experience that makes you believe you in same mindset as violent sun-worshipping Aztecs. Do YOU do bloody sacrifices?
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dustinthewind13
Fool



Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 5,219
Loc: Being a burden
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Why you do it then?
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: zzripz] 2
#15203773 - 10/10/11 03:08 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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You seem to not understand how the game is played. You hinted that psychedelics would mellow someone and I provided a counter. I am not making any case, just deconstructing your false assumption.
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: zzripz] 1
#15203785 - 10/10/11 03:16 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said: Your talking about the Mayans and Aztecs? Well to them--if so--I could add the Orphics, the Gnostics, Eastern philosophies, Abrahamic religions---all at their iniate levels had access to mind-altering substances, so why then did they devise such violent dogmas and do violent actions, etc? That is a big question right, and one I have been exploring a long time, because for me I never had such feelings influenced in ME from my LSD and magic mushrooms experiences---have you? I would be interested to know YOUR experience that makes you believe you in same mindset as violent sun-worshipping Aztecs. Do YOU do bloody sacrifices?
That's what I would call a red herring fallacy... the issue here is not the psychedelic experiences of any single individual, but examples in which they have been widely used in the religious rites of a civilization, and the nature of those rites... which in many cases have been brutally violent and gory. 
Now psychedelics may not have played any role whatever in their aggression, but they certainly did nothing to help it. They simply are not helpful to everybody.
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dustinthewind13
Fool



Registered: 11/05/10
Posts: 5,219
Loc: Being a burden
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Yeah. Psychedelics are not benevolent. They could mellow someone out, but the same dose might leave trauma in others. The kid needs psychotherapy IMO. Can you help him zzrip?
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
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LOL. have ANY of you no knowledge of modern consciousness research? AND primordial connection between sacred plants and healing?
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: zzripz] 1
#15203803 - 10/10/11 03:24 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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LOL Have YOU no knowledge of people who've taken shrooms and run around naked screaming at cops?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: zzripz] 2
#15203808 - 10/10/11 03:28 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said: LOL. have ANY of you no knowledge of modern consciousness research? AND primordial connection between sacred plants and healing?
How does this question make your case? (Hint: It adds nothing whatsoever.)
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zzripz
Stranger


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of course it bleedin does, but i cant be bothered making the effort.
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rainx
Pilgrim



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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: zzripz]
#15203928 - 10/10/11 04:59 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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This thread seems to have lost its import.
-------------------- "The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna" is best source of insight into the self, universe, and the entheogen catalyzed experience. Forward by Aldous Huxley.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Posts: 45,414
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: rainx]
#15203932 - 10/10/11 05:01 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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You may choose one:
A. Rail B. Rail C. Rail D. Rail
Hey, they usually don't make it past three posts.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: NetDiver]
#15203952 - 10/10/11 05:20 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:


To be expected from this poster. See my next post.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: zzripz] 1
#15203957 - 10/10/11 05:24 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said: of course it bleedin does, but i cant be bothered making the effort.
Can your debate skills and beliefs get more lame? Every time I think they can't you prove me wrong.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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zzripz
Stranger


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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Icelander]
#15203984 - 10/10/11 05:43 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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you are pushin it! keep your personal insults to yourself or I will report you. If you need to, as you dont seem to respect my input at these forums, USE the ignore button. you will find it under the posts.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: zzripz] 1
#15204005 - 10/10/11 05:54 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Please report me for my flames and personalisms. 
Better than me ignoring you why don't you leave this forum forever. You don't seem to have the debate skills to make any real contribution here.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: zzripz] 1
#15204169 - 10/10/11 08:01 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said: LOL. have ANY of you no knowledge of modern consciousness research? AND primordial connection between sacred plants and healing?
What is a "sacred plant"? How do you distinguish between sacred plants and others?
How does this back up what you've said?
Quote:
zzripz said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Dear ZZ,
Please tell us what ancient Central Amercian civilization embraced the use of magic mushrooms?
OK, now tell us how it cured them of violence and attitude.
Your talking about the Mayans and Aztecs? Well to them--if so--I could add the Orphics, the Gnostics, Eastern philosophies, Abrahamic religions---all at their iniate levels had access to mind-altering substances, so why then did they devise such violent dogmas and do violent actions, etc? That is a big question right, and one I have been exploring a long time, because for me I never had such feelings influenced in ME from my LSD and magic mushrooms experiences---have you? I would be interested to know YOUR experience that makes you believe you in same mindset as violent sun-worshipping Aztecs. Do YOU do bloody sacrifices?
How did any of that answer the question?
What does it matter if someone here does bloody sacrifices or not?
The whole point is that the use of pscyhadelics doesn't seem to have any noticeable effect on aggression or antisocial behaviors such as those discussed. Instead of addressing this point, your question seems to challenge the unclaimed notion that the psychadelics cause violent behavior, which was not claimed.
If there is some other interpretation to this post, then point it out, but it seems like your trying to make a point of no relevance (even if this antecdotal survey could be worth anything).
Personally, I imagine psychadelics have no direct effect on violence and so forth. That seems to just be a silly notion, just like the shaman nonsense: a bunch of crap people believe in to make themselves feel better about the world.
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zzripz
Stranger


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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: johnm214]
#15204185 - 10/10/11 08:05 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Of COURSE they have a healing effect on people. I am amazed I have to even explain this at a forum dedicated to psychedelic issues! There is an enormous amount of information of the healing and therapeutic benefits of psychedelics both anciently and modern. Shamans were/are healers....? duh!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: zzripz]
#15204227 - 10/10/11 08:20 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Of COURSE they have a healing effect on people.]
All people? Religion has a healing effect on some people. Psychotherapy has a healing effect on some people. Shock therapy has a healing effect on some people. Placebo has a healing effect on some people.
I do think psychedelics have a positive psychological effect on some people but on some it has no effect and some a negative effect. Same for many other things.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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