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 cateyes
Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 2,754
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 Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered  [Re: Diploid]
#15240218 - 10/17/11 07:41 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
he invited me to come along... i told him that i read about the MANY reported instances where native peruvians were ripping off tourists
Uhm... not to put you off or anything, but a crazy old guy I know sent me this today: 
Fears that a German tourist has been killed and eaten by cannibals on a remote island in French Polynesia have surfaced after a week-long hunt for his remains.
Stefan Ramin, a German 40-year-old business adviser went missing shortly after arranging to go on a traditional goat hunt with a local guide on the island of Nuku Hiva In French Polynesia last month. It was the last time that Heike Dorsch, his girlfriend, says that she saw him.
According to Dorsch, the local guide, Henri Haiti, returned from the forest without Ramin, telling her there had been an accident. Dorsch claims that when she tried to run to find help, Haiti chained her to a tree and abused her. It was only hours later that she unchained herself and alerted authorities. Last week, a squad of 22 police officers found camp fire ashes containing human remains, including a jaw bone and teeth. According to the Daily Mail, investigators believe that the "human body was hacked to pieces and burned".
The German newspaper, Bild, reported a prosecutor believed "the probability is that he was murdered by a cannibal and parts of him were eaten". But police have denied the claims of cannibalism. Nuku Hiva is historically known for cannibalism, but the practice was thought to have ceased. Deborah Kimitete, the deputy mayor, told local news: "No one can believe what has happened. It's horrible." Testing will take place in Paris to conclude whether the ashes are those of Ramin, but French chief investigator, José Thorel, said it could take weeks. Haiti is still missing. Soldiers from the French overseas territory have joined the police hunt to track him down.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/17/cannibals-may-have-eaten-_n_1015021.html
one of a number of reasons why my wife is worried and doesn't want me to go...
Kensho 
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 flickedbic
Sojourner
Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 4,666
Loc: Fractalic Fabric
Last seen: 15 hours, 46 minutes
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 Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Poid]
#15240228 - 10/17/11 07:43 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Note to audience: told ya so.
-Diploid
Assume much?
Still awaiting answers from Diploid and OrgoneConclusion... non-response will be deemed aquiescence.
Blessings.
--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.
Blessing.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,407
Loc: Under the C
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: flickedbic]
#15240255 - 10/17/11 07:49 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Already answered twice; enough for a person of normal intelligence.
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flickedbic
Sojourner
Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 4,666
Loc: Fractalic Fabric
Last seen: 15 hours, 46 minutes
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My kingdom for whoever knows what ^that guy is talking about.
O.K. I just read thru the thread again. Me and Diploid agreed that even very accepted occurances are scientifically seen as "theory".
What exactly are you adding on this topic Orgone?
We are still waiting on Diploid to substantiate his/her views on (co)evolution.
I don't mean to sound curt, I just aim to get at the heart of the matter.
Blessings.
--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.
Blessing.
Edited by flickedbic (10/17/11 08:08 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: flickedbic]
#15240336 - 10/17/11 08:07 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Let's do one step at a time. You have a JREF application on your plate. How about you finish that before you ask for a second helping, eh?
I'll check back in a few weeks to see if I should get my checkbook out and reserve a nice suite for you on South Beach.
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: flickedbic]
#15240355 - 10/17/11 08:11 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Diploid is good for it dude. You are going to look very silly if you find some silly excuse not to take an iron clad offer like this. But you won't. No one does cause no body can do it. Man would I love to get my hands on a million bucks. Just think of all the people I could help with that kind of money.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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flickedbic
Sojourner
Registered: 03/21/11
Posts: 4,666
Loc: Fractalic Fabric
Last seen: 15 hours, 46 minutes
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Diploid]
#15240366 - 10/17/11 08:14 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ha ha agreed. Let others do the grilling... or not. I've gotta get SWIM trunks! 
Seriously, I really do appreciate everyone at this site: you guys are great.
Forget my questions if you will; everyone, without beeing deemed aquiescent.
I apologize if I responded curtly.
"we should call ourselves the febreze brothers, because I smell a fresh start".
Blessings.
--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.
Blessing.
Edited by flickedbic (10/17/11 08:24 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: flickedbic]
#15240739 - 10/17/11 09:44 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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 bye
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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cateyes
Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 2,754
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Icelander]
#15241708 - 10/18/11 03:04 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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my response to the author of this threads original post...
"He said that the murder suspects had sought to "legitimise the killings " by blaming the victims for the high level of infant mortality in the area."
they seem just too superstitious to me... that's like me blaming my neighbor because my garden was unproductive this year...
"As early as the 16th century, Spanish and Portuguese missionaries described its use by native people in the Amazon as the work of the devil."(referring to ayahuasca)
it could be said that the christian influence on peru(and other areas of the world) is more the "work of the devil" then the shamans use of ayahuasca...
"that's an expression of how fragmented and racist this country is. a centralised country which continues to look at its interior with total indifference."
christian influence seems to have done that alot to cultures throughout history right up until today for some reason... it has been used to mold cultures into becoming compliant... this eventually opens the door of exploitation, where lumber, minerals and now water are are stolen...
"he alleged that the mayor, who is an evangelical Christian, ordered the killings on hearing that the shamans planned to form an association. he said the mayor's brother was known in the area as a matabrujos or witch killer."
hmmmm... a christian witch killer(what does that position pay an hour?)... i wonder what jesus would do? all this in the name of a loving god... we can't have shamans organizing themselves, it might upset the balance of power!
"for protestant sects, the shamans are possessed by the devil; a totally sectarian, primitive and racist concept," he said."
i also agree with this statement...
"the death of these shamans represents not just a tragic loss of life, but the loss of a huge body of knowledge about rainforest plants and the crucial role shamans play in traditional medicine and spiritual guidance in indigenous communities."
i agree...
it unfortunate these shamans had to die this way and for these reasons... yeah, it is ironic that they weren't warned through "visions" that this all was about to go down... maybe their great spirit wanted them to come home... who knows...
edit: i don't have a problem with christians as individuals... my wife and i have several good christian friends we mix it up with... we've had conversations about their faith but they have never attempted to push it on us... i do have a problem with the church and it's bible and the way that religion has been used to exploit others... i also have a problem with members of the church who tell me that i and others are sinners and will spend eternity in hell when we die... i completely cut them out of my life... who wants to hear this all the time?
Kensho
Edited by cateyes (10/18/11 09:40 AM)
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desert father
Stranger
Registered: 07/17/10
Posts: 1,102
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: johnm214]
#15243899 - 10/18/11 05:24 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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it matters whether death was presumed to be a horrific outcome because who said they were to be protected from death? that's my point.
like you said, "they're still dead"...so why do YOU think that death should have been avoided? it matters because if they really had no fear of death, there was no reason to be protected from it.
i think that the poster thought death to be a punishment because he said - "So much for second sight and warnings from dead ancestors"
as if dead ancestors were used for protection from death...now you get it?
if i believe a person is viewing a certain situation with a skewed perception, then i'd say he was unable to view this situation with objective consideration.
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vi veri veniversum vivus vici
What she said :
"I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an
Early death
AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"
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tryptonite
mushroom ninja
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 931
Loc: aussie
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: yeah]
#15269476 - 10/24/11 03:43 AM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
yeah said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
article
So much for second sight and warnings from dead ancestors. It turns out that shamanic visions are only in your head and do not come from another realm.
yet another conclusion you reach without using logic!!!
but if theres an article on internet about it then it must be true 
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Entheogen Trade List
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Quote:
desert father said:
it matters whether death was presumed to be a horrific outcome because who said they were to be protected from death? that's my point.
Nobody said they were to be protected from death, and how does that question answer the question I asked?
The premise was that being murdered was inconsistant with being protected, and that many of them being not protected suggests they were not protected as a class.
The reasons for this premise are clear: the body was functioning and living and after the murder it ceased to both live and function due to trauma. This loss of life and function is something that, if prevented, would be construed as protective of the person, their life and bodily functions. Whether they view death as horrific has no clear relevance to this line of reasoning.
Quote:
like you said, "they're still dead"...so why do YOU think that death should have been avoided? it matters because if they really had no fear of death, there was no reason to be protected from it.
I don't think that death "should have been avoided", and I'm not sure how you suppose I had a position on that one way or the other. As for your conclusion in the second sentence, what does whether there was a reason for them to be protected have to do with this issue? The question is whether they were or were not protected, not whether there was or was not a reason for them to be protected. You seem to be equivocating by addressing the latter rather than the former, without even alleging any interdependence.
Quote:
i think that the poster thought death to be a punishment because he said - "So much for second sight and warnings from dead ancestors"
as if dead ancestors were used for protection from death...now you get it?
No. What in the given statement implies that death is a punishment?
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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You know OC, I'm kinda late catching this one but I have to say this the most tasteless of your highlights I've ever seen.
Also, you're wrong to generalize. Not all shamans are quacks who claim to be literally clairvoyant in three-dimensional space/time. Do you know more about these fourteen than you're letting on? 
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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,407
Loc: Under the C
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Please point to a 'real' one. Thank you. 
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Hey, I'm not in the business of exalting shamans here, I'm just pointing out not all of them claim to be Jedis.
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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Put up or shut up dood.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Icelander]
#15276195 - 10/25/11 12:58 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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OK, fine.
The shamans allowed themselves to be murdered because of something they saw that you can't, OC. 
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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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very nice.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: flickedbic] 1
#15303709 - 10/31/11 12:44 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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Dippy said: Note to audience: told ya so.
flickedbic said: Assume much?
Yeah, I assumed your magical powers were another giant pile of bullshit in a long line of bullshit posted in this forum. I assumed you would NOT EVEN APPLY to the JREF even though you have nothing to lose and a million bucks plus a Florida vacation on the table.
It's been two weeks. I just looked in the JREF blog and see no new claimants matching your bullshit magical powers. So what's up? Was my assumption correct?
That's what I thought.
--------------------
Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Diploid]
#15303717 - 10/31/11 12:46 PM (11 years, 7 months ago) |
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What a shocker!
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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