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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: crumblebum]
    #15234233 - 10/16/11 03:26 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Sure, I would imagine this to be the case.  But then again, I think this is generally the case with most mystical beliefs.  The religious really do believe the nonsense they spout (though only when convieniant), the alien-UFO people really believe they saw aliens, et cet.

Its a common retort amongst the conspiracy people to suggest:  "you don't really think all these witnesses are lying, do you"?  I doubt it.  People are highly emotional, and you believe what is emotionally pleasing unless you guard against that kind of thinking.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: crumblebum]
    #15234252 - 10/16/11 03:29 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

It defense of the shamans, they probably aren't outright hucksters like some of their european and north american counterparts.




Native American shamans are hucksters and rain forest shamans are not. Wonderful!

To say what someone would have become having been raised in a totally different environment is as meaningless as it is unsubstantiated.

You certainly present a strong case. :strokebeard:


--------------------


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Offlinecrumblebum
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: johnm214]
    #15234390 - 10/16/11 03:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

While it is absolutely true that people gravitate towards the ideas that make them happiest, there is still a difference between ethnic spiritualism and adopted spiritualism. When someone adopts the cultural/spiritual beliefs of another society, or just a different set within there own, it was a decision with the knowledge that there are alternatives.

In the case of a Shawi shaman in the backwoods of Peru and those who come to him for guidance, it's much less likely that they consider it a choice they made so much as the regular order of things. You wouldn't abandon shoes for teleportation machines, because it's not an option that's available. If you could you would, but no dice, it's just not there for you to choose.  I suppose a better example would be this: it is perfectly likely that a protestant convert Buddhist in New York has a wholly earnest and genuine belief, but it is qualitatively dissimilar to the belief held by a pentecostal snake handler raised in appalachia. To the NY kid, Buddhism was one of many possibilities to consider, to the hillbilly, it is unquestionable fact.

Now for Orgone
Native American shamans are hucksters and rain forest shamans are not. Wonderful!

To say what someone would have become having been raised in a totally different environment is as meaningless as it is unsubstantiated.


Oh yeah, I forgot about amerindians. Touche. Major point.

I didn't SAY what they might have been, I speculated. It's substantiated by the fact that in their current environment they successfully remember and implement an enormous body of facts and ideas on a day to day basis, often without the aid of written reference. It's meaningfulness is to illustrate that these people aren't idiots, they simply aren't in a position to know better.




Don't get me wrong, murder is hillarious, and always moreso in south america, where you can still find pro witch hunters.


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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: crumblebum]
    #15238907 - 10/17/11 03:01 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

why should you believe that they have extraordinary powers that no other human seems to be able to demonstrate?


-Samurai Drifter
I don't what one should belive...  But this guy doesn't even claim to be a "Shaman" or anything of the sort:


Quote:

...based on what larger sample would one conclude that they DO in fact have magical protection?

There is no reason to think that shamans are anything other than delusional given that 1) there is zero evidence that they have magical protection and 2) there is sparse evidence (the 14 dead guys) that they don't. On the whole, it looks a lot more like they don't than they do.


-Diploid


With the batch of sample data given in this thread; you seem correct, however as I previously stated there is issue with the scientific value of the sample data points given in their all being related to one general causal event.

Perhaps as anthropologists gather more data and/or we expand our sample data pool; more accurate and statistically significant result might be found.  My guess is the likelyhood that this will occur is small as I am not planning on digging up much if any more information for this thread; and it seems most posters that have been active in it are happy with their conclusions and therefore not likely to want to expand upon this idea.

That's just the way it goes.  There is not much genuine scientific experiment on "shamanic magic/divination/protection" published in commonly-accepted peer-reviewed scientific journals and it does not appear likely in the near future, perhaps for lack of interest.

Independent research is ongoing...

Blessings.


--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.


Edited by flickedbic (10/17/11 03:14 PM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: flickedbic]
    #15238964 - 10/17/11 03:13 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

There is not much genuine scientific experiment on "shamanic magic/divination/protection" published in commonly-accepted peer-reviewed scientific journals and it does not appear likely in the near future, perhaps for lack of interest.

Don't you think that's odd given that anyone who shows with statistical certainty that shaman have magical powers will instantly become perhaps the richest and most famous scientist in history? Having changed the entire paradigm for ever and proven countless skeptics wrong?

Lack of interest in that? Really?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Diploid]
    #15239000 - 10/17/11 03:22 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

It may go beyond lack of interest into a vested interest in maintainance of the status quo and not upsetting entrenched thought paradigm.

That may be an exiting concept for some, like Dr. Puharich; whose video I provided in the above post, but he certainly did not become the most wealthy and famous scientist.  Indeed; this has proven nothing... even evolution is still a theory.  Dr. Puharich may be more famous than he was; but I dunno where the wealth would come in for any scientists that shows truth in shamanic magic. 

Maybe the shaman it was proven with would become very famous and wealthy... but in the above example; the "divining" was from a combo of an average joe and a handfull of the little ones.  I have an intuition that is the only way this sort of thing will ever become accepted...  One life-changing experience at a time. 

Even the best evidence of certain phenomenon will be seen with skepticism, and indeed should be, untill it is finally proven to one beyond doubt on a personal level.

Blessings.


--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.


Edited by flickedbic (10/17/11 03:35 PM)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: flickedbic] * 1
    #15239385 - 10/17/11 04:42 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

even evolution is still a theory




What exactly does that mean?


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: flickedbic] * 1
    #15239556 - 10/17/11 05:24 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

even evolution is still a theory

Everything in science is a theory. The "atomic theory" incinerated Hiroshima. Did you know that? How can someone with not even that elementary education about science have the gall to critique it? :confused:

a vested interest in maintainance of the status quo

Really? Scientists would rather toil in obscurity than destroy the status quo and join the likes of Einstein and Newton creating a new branch of scientific inquiry? I don't buy it.

like Dr. Puharich; whose video I provided in the above post, but he certainly did not become the most wealthy and famous scientist.

Given that the sloppy, non-blinded protocol exhibited in that video renders his results meaningless, I'm not surprised. Had he produced results using a properly controlled and blinded study, his name would be known around the world today. In fact, ANYONE, who can reproduce the results claimed in that video under a proper controlled and blinded protocol will become instantly rich and famous. For starters, that person would win the JREF million dollar prize (and I'd become his first groupie).

If you believe that video, why don't you do it? You know what? I will pay for your airline ticket, hotel, rental car, and food to come to Florida and demonstrate those results at JREF if you can do it for the pretest (which is administered where you live). So, will you do it? What are you waiting for?

Note to audience: he has absolutely nothing to lose and a million dollars, changing the world, and a nice Florida vacation to gain, but he will not even apply. Not even APPLY! Mark my words.

Prove me wrong. Please. Nothing would make me happier than to be at the epicenter of a world-changing discovery. However, I expect to be disappointed.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Diploid]
    #15239709 - 10/17/11 05:57 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

even evolution is still a theory


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



What exactly does that mean?




That altho there is evidence for it (and many scientists suscribe to evolution); it is still not-accepted as fact.

Quote:

...a vested interest in maintainance of the status quo

Really? Scientists would rather toil in obscurity then destroy the status quo and join the likes of Einstein and Newton creating a new branch of scientific inquiry? I don't buy it.




I am speaking of the uncomfortability of stepping outside of ones' accepted world-view.  The upsetting of ones' mental status quo by seriously considering efficacy of "voodoo-heebie-jeebie" shamanism.

Quote:

So, will you do it? What are you waiting for?

Note to audience: he has absolutely nothing to lose and a million dollars (plus changing the world) to gain, but he will not even apply. Not even APPLY!






I will do it upon the condition that I first work with a partner and can somewhat reproduce the test results of the above video.  I don't want to waste anyones' time if the little ones' don't work in lending me (increased) E.S.P.

Quote:

Test your power at home, in a controlled setting like the one described in your protocol. Bring along skeptics, too. It is best to be able to demonstrate your ability reliably before you apply.




http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/component/content/article/37-static/254-jref-challenge-faq.html

That really is a very kind offer Diploid, I truly appreciate it.  I will reimburse you if I do get paid a million FRN's for answering the JREF Challenge.

  That said, I don't know if even doing as good as the video would be proof enough to win the JREF prize; their rules as to judging are somewhat vague... what MIGHT happen:

"Okay, flickedbic, you said that mystery picture A was "powerful, fast, and loud".  That is incorrect.  The awnser was "waterfall".

You said mystery picture B was "two faces, looking in opposite directions".  That is incorrect.  The awnser was "Madonna and her baby"..."

I'm still down to give it a shot; where legal.  It may be a fun experiment at the very least!

Blessings.


--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: flickedbic]
    #15239773 - 10/17/11 06:08 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

You won't do it imo, no matter what you say here.  That's just to save face.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: flickedbic]
    #15239792 - 10/17/11 06:11 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

it is still not-accepted as fact

Nothing in science is accepted as fact. The atomic theory that incinerated Hiroshima is not accepted as fact. That's why it's called the atomic theory.

their rules as to judging are somewhat vague

Uh no. Have you read the FAQ? The rules are what YOU SAY the rules are. This is agreed to in writing in advanced. Whatever you say the test is, that's what it is. The only requirement the JREF will insist on is that the you can't cheat, and the results are not subject to interpretation. They are evident on the face of the experiment. Here's an example protocol:

A 6-sided die will be rolled inside a dice cage (not by hand) in full view 10 times. The claimant wins the prize if he guesses the roll in advance 8 or more times.

The end. So you see, there is no interpretation. No one is the judge. The protocol must be such that you either win or don't win and the result is self-evident.

That said, I don't know if even doing as good as the video

:blah: Blah, blah, blah. Now begins page after page of why you can't do what you say you can do. How it's too much trouble (even with a million bucks to win). How you're too busy (even though getting rich would give you all the time in the world). And so on...

Note to audience: told ya so. :sad:

But prove me wrong. I'll apologize and win or not, you'll have my respect as the VERY FIRST Shroomerite with magic powers in the 10 years I've been here to go any farther than loading the JREF web.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblecateyes
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #15239816 - 10/17/11 06:17 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i experimented with dmt only once so far... i smoked it... it was extremely intense... not sure if i'll ever do it again though... i became friendly with a guy on Utube after watching a few of his vids... he believes the manna refereed to in the bible is really psilocybin mushrooms... one night a few of were in chat in stickam and i mentioned i always wanted to try ayahuasca in a legitimate ceremony under shaman guidance... turns out he and his wife(a native urarinan from the amazon basin) are visiting peru the first two weeks of december... he invited me to come along... i told him that i read about the MANY reported instances where native peruvians were ripping off tourists searching for the experience by claiming to be shamans(it's fairly easy to whip up a batch of ayahuasca)... i told him i was concerned about this but he promised me he could hook me up... i would have to leave my wife and children alone for that period and would have to take a partial paid leave from work since i already have used up most of my available vacation time... my wife bugs out anytime i mention it, she's fearful and is worried that something might happen to me while i'm down there... i'm glad i have time to think about it more and persuade my wife that everything will be cool...

i started thinking about how native cultures were able to identify the plants and fungi that were psychoactive and incorporate them into their cultures as far back to the age of 14 when i first began to trip... after doing alot of reading over time i've come to believe that they evolved along with us for a reason... just like fruits and vegetables... how is it nature knew enough to produce them in order to satisfy our body needs for vitamins and minerals... i've read the thread and noticed there are alot of skeptics... it will always be hard to convince someone once their mind has been made up... and it will always be hard to try and integrate elements of mysticism and science(except for maybe buddhism)... you either open up to the possibilities or you don't, it's as simple as that...

Kensho :psychsplit:


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: cateyes]
    #15239926 - 10/17/11 06:43 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

how is it nature knew enough to produce them in order to satisfy our body needs for vitamins and minerals

The same way nature knew enough to produce petroleum in order to satisfy our culture's energy needs.

Your statement is so profoundly ignorant of the most basic elementary-school level biology that I have to hope it's a joke even though I know it's not. Humans are doomed. :facepalm:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: cateyes]
    #15240032 - 10/17/11 07:02 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Have you read the FAQ? The rules are what YOU SAY the rules are. This is agreed to in writing in advanced. Whatever you say the test is, that's what it is.



I disagree:

Quote:

Neither the Foundation nor the claimant can force a testing procedure without the approval of the other side. The testing procedure is a negotiation, and no one can put their foot down. If at any time it a deadlock is reached, the application process will be terminated, and neither side will be blamed or considered at fault.




That is fine, however.  I would have it no other way.  The card test seems to be most scientifically measurable.


Quote:

Blah, blah, blah. Now begins page after page of why you can't do what you say you can do. How it's too much trouble (even with a million bucks to win). How you're too busy (even though getting rich would give you all the time in the world). And so on...

Note to audience: told ya so.




Ha ha! 

Quote:

...reading over time i've come to believe that they evolved along with us for a reason... just like fruits and vegetables...



Quote:

how is it nature knew enough to produce them in order to satisfy our body needs for vitamins and minerals

The same way nature knew enough to produce petroleum in order to satisfy our culture's energy needs.

Your statement is so profoundly ignorant of the most basic elementary-school level biology that I have to hope it's a joke even though I know it's not. Humans are doomed. 




I hope this retort on petroleum is a joke... if not I will point out why it made me laugh. 

At the very leasto you not believe that mans' usage of plants aids their proliferation, even before farming?  Or that healthy or psychoactive plants aid the proliferation or mental stimulation of men who are wise to that plant and the use thereof,

Is co-evolution (where two different living species help each other adapt and evolve by influencing each other) just not a scientifically plausible idea in your view?

http://brianaltonenmph.com/natural-sciences/4-projects/plantae-the-evolution-of-plant-chemicals/co-evolution-man-and-plants/

Blessings.


--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.


Edited by flickedbic (10/17/11 07:16 PM)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: flickedbic]
    #15240044 - 10/17/11 07:05 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:




Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

even evolution is still a theory


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



What exactly does that mean?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



That altho there is evidence for it (and many scientists suscribe to evolution); it is still not-accepted as fact.






Even after Diploid patiently explained it to you, you are still unable to grasp this basic scientific tenet?


--------------------


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Offlineflickedbic
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #15240119 - 10/17/11 07:22 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I will say that "All I know is that I know nothing"; what is your point? 

Quote:

Everything in science is a theory.


-Diploid

I am assuming this is the "patient explanation" you were referring to?

What is it that I have failed to grasp and how do you know I have failed to grasp it?

Blessings.


--------------------
Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order:
1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine
2)Amanita (urine drank twice)
3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose)
4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators)
5)Salvia (need to try quid)


All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.

Blessing.


Edited by flickedbic (10/17/11 07:32 PM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: cateyes]
    #15240124 - 10/17/11 07:23 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

he invited me to come along... i told him that i read about the MANY reported instances where native peruvians were ripping off tourists

Uhm... not to put you off or anything, but a crazy old guy I know sent me this today: :shrug:

Fears that a German tourist has been killed and eaten by cannibals on a remote island in French Polynesia have surfaced after a week-long hunt for his remains.

Stefan Ramin, a German 40-year-old business adviser went missing shortly after arranging to go on a traditional goat hunt with a local guide on the island of Nuku Hiva In French Polynesia last month. It was the last time that Heike Dorsch, his girlfriend, says that she saw him.

According to Dorsch, the local guide, Henri Haiti, returned from the forest without Ramin, telling her there had been an accident. Dorsch claims that when she tried to run to find help, Haiti chained her to a tree and abused her. It was only hours later that she unchained herself and alerted authorities. Last week, a squad of 22 police officers found camp fire ashes containing human remains, including a jaw bone and teeth. According to the Daily Mail, investigators believe that the "human body was hacked to pieces and burned".

The German newspaper, Bild, reported a prosecutor believed "the probability is that he was murdered by a cannibal and parts of him were eaten". But police have denied the claims of cannibalism. Nuku Hiva is historically known for cannibalism, but the practice was thought to have ceased. Deborah Kimitete, the deputy mayor, told local news: "No one can believe what has happened. It's horrible." Testing will take place in Paris to conclude whether the ashes are those of Ramin, but French chief investigator, José Thorel, said it could take weeks. Haiti is still missing. Soldiers from the French overseas territory have joined the police hunt to track him down.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/17/cannibals-may-have-eaten-_n_1015021.html


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Diploid]
    #15240165 - 10/17/11 07:30 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Note to audience: told ya so. :sad:


You didn't have to tell me, I already knew what was going to happen. :thumbup:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Invisiblecateyes
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Diploid]
    #15240199 - 10/17/11 07:37 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
how is it nature knew enough to produce them in order to satisfy our body needs for vitamins and minerals

The same way nature knew enough to produce petroleum in order to satisfy our culture's energy needs.

Your statement is so profoundly ignorant of the most basic elementary-school level biology that I have to hope it's a joke even though I know it's not. Humans are doomed. :facepalm:




i accept evolution as a fact... i believe nature is perfect. that nature was able to evolve in order to sustain itself(until we began to abuse it) how does my statement violate rules of " the most basic elementary-school level biology"? please explain. :smile: you look at it from a strictly science point of view... good for you... i learned it is better to mix it up...

i worked at a fortune 500 pharmaceutical for six years... at one point they had two labs dedicated to study the cancer fighting and auto-immune enhancement properties of two mushrooms... their eventual goal is to develop a molecule that is slightly different from the one found in nature so that they can apply for patent and make tons of money... why not just isolate the natural compounds or better yet encourage us to eat the mushrooms(assuming they're not poisonous)? there are thousands of plants being studied for applications on hundreds of diseases... i think that's fucking awesome! i see a beauty in that... you don't... it's that simple... why does the shroomery have someone like yourself moderating a forum on "Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology"? it makes no sense, you're too closed minded... you'd be much better off moderating OTD... i think it's you who shows their ignorance because your mind has been shut... i think it's sad... you may be right, humans may be doomed... :rolleyes:

you said: "The same way nature knew enough to produce petroleum in order to satisfy our culture's energy needs." are you saying by accident and we learned how to exploit that accident? if that's the case, i say there are no accidents in nature... what are you suggesting? it's unclear...

don't forget to tell me how what i said was "so profoundly ignorant of the most basic elementary-school level biology"

Kensho :psychsplit:


Edited by cateyes (10/18/11 02:01 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Diploid]
    #15240200 - 10/17/11 07:37 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
he invited me to come along... i told him that i read about the MANY reported instances where native peruvians were ripping off tourists

Uhm... not to put you off or anything, but a crazy old guy I know sent me this today: :shrug:

Fears that a German tourist has been killed and eaten by cannibals on a remote island in French Polynesia have surfaced after a week-long hunt for his remains.

Stefan Ramin, a German 40-year-old business adviser went missing shortly after arranging to go on a traditional goat hunt with a local guide on the island of Nuku Hiva In French Polynesia last month. It was the last time that Heike Dorsch, his girlfriend, says that she saw him.

According to Dorsch, the local guide, Henri Haiti, returned from the forest without Ramin, telling her there had been an accident. Dorsch claims that when she tried to run to find help, Haiti chained her to a tree and abused her. It was only hours later that she unchained herself and alerted authorities. Last week, a squad of 22 police officers found camp fire ashes containing human remains, including a jaw bone and teeth. According to the Daily Mail, investigators believe that the "human body was hacked to pieces and burned".

The German newspaper, Bild, reported a prosecutor believed "the probability is that he was murdered by a cannibal and parts of him were eaten". But police have denied the claims of cannibalism. Nuku Hiva is historically known for cannibalism, but the practice was thought to have ceased. Deborah Kimitete, the deputy mayor, told local news: "No one can believe what has happened. It's horrible." Testing will take place in Paris to conclude whether the ashes are those of Ramin, but French chief investigator, José Thorel, said it could take weeks. Haiti is still missing. Soldiers from the French overseas territory have joined the police hunt to track him down.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/17/cannibals-may-have-eaten-_n_1015021.html





I'd never trust anything I got from a crazy guy. :nono:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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