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HigherConsciousnes


Registered: 05/16/11
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered *DELETED* [Re: flickedbic]
#15214486 - 10/12/11 03:07 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by HigherConsciousnes
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
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Kickle said: I found it a sad loss of history personally, not reinforcing for a materialistic viewpoint. I also don't hold the belief that what a shaman does or is capable of has anything to do with protecting themselves from harm. But I've never been with the shamans killed and they may very well have claimed just that in which case OC's point is well made. In lieu of that, it's well made for those who would defend a shaman's ability to magically protect themselves from death.
so that would be known as a strawman argument
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: flickedbic]
#15214545 - 10/12/11 03:19 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzripz said: ALL i can see from you is words. So I ask you--sowhere's YOUR evidences...?
Evidence for what? If you're challenging something I've said you're going to have to identify what it is, first.
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can you not dig that most drugs will derive from plants?
What does this have to do with anything? You said that most drugs we know about come from the rainforest/jungle, not that 'most' drugs 'will' derive from 'plants'. All those quoted words represent changes in the claim you made.
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can you not see tyhat pollutants will be detrimental for health.
What does that have to do with anything? Stop with the straw man nonsense, I made it quite clear what I was challenging.
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WHY do I have to throw sources at you, and you dont at me?
hey??
Because I challenged your claims. You didn't challenge mine. Is this really that difficult?
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flickedbic said: So much talk... this took me 10 minutes to compile:
And what was the relevance of that compilation? You didn't provide any evidence of zzripz claim that most of the drugs we know about come from the rainforest.
He's now equivocating, so maybe you read his later posts assumed his later claims were the same, but it isn't so in any case. If you'll read my previous posts I even speculated zzripz based his claims on reports such as those you refrence, though they don't back up his claims.
Left unmentioned are his claims that cancer 'has increased' since the industrial revolution and that
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flickedbic
Sojourner



Registered: 03/21/11
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Relevance in compilation re: plant drugs: 25% of pharmaceuticals is not a majority; correct. It is not something to turn ones' nose up at, either. That is all.
Also, my previous post on religion is not to say that there are no good priests; or no good shamans.
Just because many are corrupt, does not mean that there are none that know how to counsel one thru a painful spot in life or have useful knowledge of plants/herbs and their usefull combinations.
I am also unsure whether the Divine/divination is really undoubtedly a figment of mans' imagination...
See the black and white video broadcast in 1961 called "One Step Beyond - The Sacred Mushroom" ; free on youtube.
Blessings.
-------------------- Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order: 1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine 2)Amanita (urine drank twice) 3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose) 4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators) 5)Salvia (need to try quid)
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental. Blessing.
Edited by flickedbic (10/12/11 03:31 PM)
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: flickedbic]
#15214688 - 10/12/11 03:47 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
flickedbic said: Relevance in compilation re: plant drugs: 25% of pharmaceuticals is not a majority; correct. It is not something to turn ones' nose up at, either. That is all.
Ok, however; recognize that the 25% figure provided by the "save the rainforest" website had no evidence or citations provided for it, and this figure was the percent of pharmaceuticals continaining some rainforest derived ingredient, not the portion of drugs that come from rainforest sources. If they include the stupid herbal remedy bullshit that now makes up a huge portion of over the counter sales in the US, it includes a lot of nontherepeutic and nonactive substances that couldn't even be called 'drugs' (some of the examples of the drugs cited, however; included things like coca which grows at higher elevations as well as in the jungle. It seems a bit of a borderline class to include things that grow elsewhere but also, to some extent, can survive in the rainforest)
edit:
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zzripz said:
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Samurai Drifter said:Here's my philosophy of life: You can give your life whatever meaning you want. Somehow, I manage to do that without believing in spirits, ghosts, gods, magic, shamanic healing, or other nonsense designed to convince people they will live beyond their death. I also manage to treat my fellow beings decently, without a conviction that I will be punished by a higher power if I fail to do so.
Bizarre, huh?
so, you don't believe in spirits, ghosts, gods, magic, shamanic healing, or other 'nonesense'. you don't believe we will live beyond death. But you respect people even though you don't do it cause you fear some higher power will punish you if you don't.
Huh? He said exactly the opposite: he respects people despite not believing a flying spaghetti monster or your "goddess" will punish him if he doesn't.
What do you mean by "you respect people even though you don't do it"? huh?
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
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Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: johnm214] 1
#15214914 - 10/12/11 04:32 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Not to mention that the word "most" which was used in the debate is at least a 100% exaggeration of the actual percentage. And that's generous because it assumes the now-corrected 25% is itself an honest estimate, which as you've now pointed out, is doubtful.
I can usually gauge the amount of bullshit and intellectual dishonesty exist in a debater's argument by the amount of exaggeration he puts into the debate hoping no one will notice. This particular debate is a great example.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Diploid]
#15214937 - 10/12/11 04:37 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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None of you care about Peruvians anyway. This particulare thererad is a pearfuct xample.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: LunarEclipse] 2
#15214941 - 10/12/11 04:37 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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No one said they did.
Do you have any more off-topic noise to add to the thread?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Diploid]
#15214954 - 10/12/11 04:39 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Prolly a classic rock vid.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Diploid]
#15214957 - 10/12/11 04:40 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: LunarEclipse] 1
#15214980 - 10/12/11 04:44 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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How could I possibly have known?
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: How could I possibly have known? 
Hey You are shhhhhmart?
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Diploid
Cuban



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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: LunarEclipse] 3
#15215014 - 10/12/11 04:50 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Alright, that's enough. Shut up or get on topic. Otherwise I'll do it for you.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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dustinthewind13
Fool



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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: Diploid]
#15215046 - 10/12/11 04:56 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Alright, that's enough. Shut up or get on topic. Otherwise I'll do it for you.
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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flickedbic
Sojourner



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I must say that merely because 14 Shamans were murdered it does not mean that future-vision is non-existent.
It may mean that these particular shamans had none; but it also does not exclude the possibility of (at least one/some of) them having the knowledge of their deaths before-the-fact and doing nothing to stop it.
Blessings.
-------------------- Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order: 1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine 2)Amanita (urine drank twice) 3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose) 4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators) 5)Salvia (need to try quid)
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental. Blessing.
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dustinthewind13
Fool



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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: flickedbic]
#15215106 - 10/12/11 05:06 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Why would they do nothing to stop it?
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
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Quote:
dustinthewind13 said: Why would they do nothing to stop it?
Racist.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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flickedbic
Sojourner



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I don't pretend to know; perhaps so they could return to the stars and have more power than could be weilded in a human shell?
Perhaps they saw that reality would be influenced by their death in ways that pleased them (drawing attention to the atrocious nature of government)?
I really have no idea what others motivations might be; I'm just saying that there is nothing certainly proven by the occurance(s) one way or the other in the pre-cognitive sense.
Blessings.
-------------------- Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order: 1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine 2)Amanita (urine drank twice) 3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose) 4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators) 5)Salvia (need to try quid)
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental. Blessing.
Edited by flickedbic (10/12/11 05:35 PM)
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dustinthewind13
Fool



Registered: 11/05/10
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Re: 14 Peruvian Shamans Murdered [Re: LunarEclipse]
#15215225 - 10/12/11 05:29 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
dustinthewind13 said: Why would they do nothing to stop it?
Racist.
-------------------- "It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "A room without books is like a body without a soul." - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson
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HigherConsciousnes


Registered: 05/16/11
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Post deleted by HigherConsciousnes
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