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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleMufungo
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Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism...
    #15193744 - 10/07/11 09:40 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

pessimism [pɛsɪˌmɪzəm] n
1. the tendency to expect the worst and see the worst in all things

optimism [ɒptɪˌmɪzəm] n
1. the tendency to expect the best and see the best in all things

realism [rɪəˌlɪzəm] n
1. awareness or acceptance of the physical universe, events, etc., as they are, as opposed to the abstract or ideal
2. awareness or acceptance of the facts and necessities of life; a practical rather than a moral or dogmatic view of things





Now, no lying to yourself, stepping back from the bias of automatically believing what you have thought, looking at your recent past behaviour and thinking patterns, what "ism" above do you truly fall into?

Was just curious...

What impact do you think this world view is having on your life? Would you want to change it? If you would, why don't you?
When you look at yourself honestly, what thinking style do you come from most of the time (in the past 6 months)?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (10/07/11 09:39 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism... [Re: Mufungo]
    #15193751 - 10/07/11 09:42 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

See sig


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"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific

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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism... [Re: crkhd]
    #15193766 - 10/07/11 09:47 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

crkhd said:
Peace is omnipresent, all love and hate arise in stillness supreme, You are samadhi.
Yet peace within peace comes and goes
There is a way to keep it around: do not be afraid
Fearhatedeath is reaction, peacelovelife is reason
Thus can one evolve towards truth and thus can true peace be attained as a sphere balanced within a sphere
The mind that can be clouded by thought is not the mind
When the tao is told it ceases to be mystery but it ceases not to be eternal
All thoughts have a purpose, find the root and behold the beauty of the tree




Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that kind of seems like realism? Nothing is good or bad, it just is, and we can be aware of things just as they are, instead of in line with some abstract notion of how they are.. that sort of thing?


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism... [Re: Mufungo]
    #15193886 - 10/07/11 10:20 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

optimism/realism
I like to see the bright side even tho the realist in me knows it's not always there
gets me in to trouble sometimes


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism... [Re: Kickle]
    #15193894 - 10/07/11 10:22 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

How does it get ya in trouble sometimes?


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OfflineLion
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Re: Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism... [Re: Mufungo]
    #15193992 - 10/07/11 10:55 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Pessimism is realism.


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“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism... [Re: Lion]
    #15194015 - 10/07/11 11:06 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

So you think the tendency to expect the worst and see the worst in all things is having an awareness or acceptance of the physical universe, events, etc., as they are, as opposed to the abstract or ideal?


Nah, that's just pessimism/pessimism. That is having an abstract/ideal idea of things always being bad. Which isn't realistic by any means.


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Invisibler72rock
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Re: Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism... [Re: Mufungo] * 1
    #15194143 - 10/07/11 11:44 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I usually tend to be overly optimistic, and will probably end up hurt myself in the end. :undecided:

But I'm optimistic about that too. :bigjoint:


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Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses

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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism... [Re: r72rock]
    #15194283 - 10/08/11 12:23 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

That one cracked me up. Cheers. :thumbup:


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InvisibleAmoeboid
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Re: Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism... [Re: Mufungo]
    #15194421 - 10/08/11 01:06 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I'm optimistic during the day when I'm about my business because I can see myself taking action to accomplish something and inflate my ego.

I'm pessimistic at night when I'm lonely, sad, and scared and when I have time to dwell on my fears.

Sometimes the sight of a planet shining in the night sky is beautiful and sometimes it's grotesque.


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Philosophically, the contents of the jar gave no advice.

Edited by Amoeboid (10/08/11 01:07 AM)

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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism... [Re: Amoeboid]
    #15194569 - 10/08/11 02:17 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

i honestly think that this thread is based on a false trichotomy.

realism, firstly, can be considered in two ways:

1) that reality is the way that our theories say that it is. That is, to say that our theories and interpretations of them are the absolute truth.

2) that one should think about the consistent and dependable aspects of reality rather than the speculative aspects that are based on hope or paranoia.

I think in the context of this discussion the second version is most relevant.

Optimism can then be considered either realistic optimism (focussing on the certain positive aspects of reality) or speculative optimism (hoping for something good to happen that is not reasonably entailed by the things known).
Pessimism can also be considered realistic pessimism (focussing on the certain negative aspects of reality) or speculative pessimism (fearing that something bad will happen even though there is not a reasonable amount of evidence for the fear).

So I picked optimist/realist because I tend to try to be realistic while also focussing on the positive aspects of reality since that helps to visualise positive goals and relish in positive emotions. Ultimately thats what I try to get out of life.
I also have a lot of hopes, but that can sometimes be decieving because i also have many apocalyptic visions. I just focus more time and thought on the positive ones in order to increase the chance that I will be able to make them real, whether in the small scale of my own life or the larger scale of global reality


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism... [Re: Noteworthy]
    #15194599 - 10/08/11 02:26 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

By false trichotomy do you mean that realism doesn't really fit in with the other two? Insofar as, conceptually, realism is quite different to the other two? Or did ya mean something else?


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism... [Re: Mufungo]
    #15194774 - 10/08/11 05:01 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

well i guess the poll revealed that its not a trichotomy. I just dont think that realism is an alternative to optimism or pessimism


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism... [Re: Noteworthy]
    #15194836 - 10/08/11 06:03 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I asked the question to clarify what you were trying to mean by calling it a false trichotomy. Yes, of course realism isn't an alternative to optimism in a conceptual sense. That's pretty obvious. I never intended for it to be interpreted as a "trichotomy". Hence why I added an alternative to all three (none of the above) and also included an option of a combination of both realism/optimism and realism/pessimism.

The reason for including those particular choices though was because I hear thrown around with relation to optimism and pessimism, "I'm not an optimist/pessimist, I'm a realist". So hence, I wanted to know what people aligned themselves with..


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism... [Re: Mufungo]
    #15194860 - 10/08/11 06:16 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mufungo said:
Quote:

crkhd said:
Peace is omnipresent, all love and hate arise in stillness supreme, You are samadhi.
Yet peace within peace comes and goes
There is a way to keep it around: do not be afraid
Fearhatedeath is reaction, peacelovelife is reason
Thus can one evolve towards truth and thus can true peace be attained as a sphere balanced within a sphere
The mind that can be clouded by thought is not the mind
When the tao is told it ceases to be mystery but it ceases not to be eternal
All thoughts have a purpose, find the root and behold the beauty of the tree




Please correct me if I'm wrong, but that kind of seems like realism? Nothing is good or bad, it just is, and we can be aware of things just as they are, instead of in line with some abstract notion of how they are.. that sort of thing?





No it's optimism.  Fearhatedeath is reaction, peacelovelife is reason


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism... [Re: Icelander]
    #15194877 - 10/08/11 06:24 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, I can see what ya mean. Cheers.


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism... [Re: Mufungo]
    #15194936 - 10/08/11 07:09 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mufungo said:
I asked the question to clarify what you were trying to mean by calling it a false trichotomy. Yes, of course realism isn't an alternative to optimism in a conceptual sense. That's pretty obvious. I never intended for it to be interpreted as a "trichotomy". Hence why I added an alternative to all three (none of the above) and also included an option of a combination of both realism/optimism and realism/pessimism.

The reason for including those particular choices though was because I hear thrown around with relation to optimism and pessimism, "I'm not an optimist/pessimist, I'm a realist". So hence, I wanted to know what people aligned themselves with..



right, well it is that last opinion that i have trouble with, and i guess you werent actually proposing that view at all


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism... [Re: Mufungo]
    #15194956 - 10/08/11 07:21 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

So the realist in me is going to say

You can get a sense of whether you are a pessimist or optimist by looking for some objective measures. For example do projects usually take longer or shorter then you think they will? Do people perform to your expectations? Do events make you as happy as you think they will. Things like that.


I'm a skeptical realist. I usually get it right, but put a bit of pessimism in there to manage expectations.

Well that is my bias...  We are certainly not locked into any one perspective

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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism... [Re: Freedom]
    #15194984 - 10/08/11 07:35 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

that clearly outlines the different types of optimism/pessimism that one could use to describe themselves.

Eg. one type of optimism has nothing to do with whether you finnish earlier or later than you expected, but how you respond to the time you do finnish. Eg. if its later than expected, an optimist might say 'well at least we didnt rush' while the pessimist might say 'we are failing at our duty'. If you finnish earlier than expected, the optimist might say 'we are good workers' while the pessimist might say 'we are rushing and need to take more care'


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Pessimism, Optimisism, and Realism... [Re: Mufungo]
    #15195030 - 10/08/11 08:04 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mufungo said:
How does it get ya in trouble sometimes?




the world doesn't operate according to my personal optimism and conflict arises.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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