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InvisiblepachooDiscord
Witchakookoo
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Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 7,135
Re: Help me solve this (spiritual) dilemma [Re: Icelander]
    #15189151 - 10/06/11 09:43 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Reverse it , the shop owner has the capability to restore life by giving up 1 measly loaf of bread , he has the power to help but does not ?

And what then?  The word gets out and all the starving folk end up at the door asking for 1 measly loaf of bread, today, tomorrow, the next day etc.  Can you see a problem here?





most bakeries actually donate day old bread and pastries. well around here anywho.


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:heartpump::heartpump: :heartpump::heartpump:

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Help me solve this (spiritual) dilemma [Re: pachoo]
    #15190096 - 10/07/11 03:20 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

pachoo said:

>Reverse it , the shop owner has the capability to restore life by giving up 1 measly loaf of bread , he has the power to help but does not ?


most bakeries actually donate day old bread and pastries. well around here anywho.




How Terrible!  As the previous poster has informed us, they are, in fact, stealing the life of those hungry people who were owed that bread by the bakery had they not donated it!  After all, they could have given the starving person that bread if not for their reckless donation.  What bastards they are!

Quote:

Withinity said:
Reverse it , the shop owner has the capability to restore life by giving up 1 measly loaf of bread , he has the power to help but does not ?


In essence he is the one who has stolen considering he had the capability to keep life moving but for profits sake he let it go.




What does profit have to do with this?  Maybe the baker is operating at a loss and will make no profit regardless of his expenses.  What then?  The moral situation does not change at all, nor does your argument, and this demonstrates the bias inherent in discussing 'profit' as the motive here when its extraneous.

Further, the whole concept of theft is behavior which deprives the owner of goods their possesory rights.  Not giving a piece of bread to someone does not do this, so its not stealing.  This seems simple enough to me.


Quote:

Im sure manypeople would love to say 'oh no i would not steal' , but those words would mean nothing once in experience of shriveled stomach and on the brink of death , when a mere loaf of bread can mean salvation.




Who said they wouldn't steal?  Everyone who answered the question here said they would steal, in fact.  This seems like a fabricated argument as it relies on a false premise: that anybody claims they wouldn't steal.  What you would or would not do in a particular situation has no clear relevance to whether it is wrong or not, however that quality is defined.  As Icelander mentions, its just equivocating to start haggling post facto about the very definition of right and wrong that were formally agreed upon (via biblical verse or whatever).

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Offlinedesant
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Re: Help me solve this (spiritual) dilemma [Re: johnm214]
    #15190127 - 10/07/11 03:46 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

All of this has to do with this concept called "The Net"

WHich supposedly "anunaki" placed over our planet at the time of Jesus and only thro Jesus and his ways you can ascend this net and graduate planet Earth :awesome:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Help me solve this (spiritual) dilemma [Re: desant]
    #15190200 - 10/07/11 04:48 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

right


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinedesant
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Re: Help me solve this (spiritual) dilemma [Re: Icelander]
    #15190207 - 10/07/11 04:54 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

U agree?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Help me solve this (spiritual) dilemma [Re: desant]
    #15190223 - 10/07/11 05:03 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

not really :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinedesant
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Re: Help me solve this (spiritual) dilemma [Re: Icelander]
    #15190289 - 10/07/11 06:00 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Come one , open your mind icelander and tell us what u been hiding all these years


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Help me solve this (spiritual) dilemma [Re: desant]
    #15190337 - 10/07/11 06:30 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

This is the type of personal comment I would expect from someone like you.  I'm much more of myself here than you are imo. I tell it like I see it even if I don't personally like it. Unlike some who must lie to themselves and tell fairy tales about their lives to make it through another day.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineLSDenthusiast
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Re: Help me solve this (spiritual) dilemma [Re: desant]
    #15190393 - 10/07/11 06:59 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

There is only action. Does action contain morals within in it? No. I'm not condoning stealing nor condemning it. It is only action. It is thought that judges and decides what is right and wrong. These ways of thinking only pertain to our human society and have nothing to do with functioning in the natural state of being.

You want to stick to the rules of society because you think you will gain some spiritual merit and appease the so called "gods". Sure go right ahead, if that's what you believe will happen. Or perhaps you don't believe in it at all, that's great too. It doesn't matter. What you think of the situation, doesn't mean shit.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Help me solve this (spiritual) dilemma [Re: LSDenthusiast]
    #15190607 - 10/07/11 08:36 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: Help me solve this (spiritual) dilemma [Re: LSDenthusiast]
    #15190657 - 10/07/11 08:50 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LSDenthusiast said:
There is only action. Does action contain morals within in it? No. I'm not condoning stealing nor condemning it. It is only action. It is thought that judges and decides what is right and wrong. These ways of thinking only pertain to our human society and have nothing to do with functioning in the natural state of being.

You want to stick to the rules of society because you think you will gain some spiritual merit and appease the so called "gods". Sure go right ahead, if that's what you believe will happen. Or perhaps you don't believe in it at all, that's great too. It doesn't matter. What you think of the situation, doesn't mean shit.





Bullshit.....im sorry but I dont agree with that backwards ass worldview. Some shit is wrong if you choose to accept this or not. When someone murders your child what you gonna do?.....shrug it off because morals are simply a false image :rolleyes:


--------------------
Hippies and Liberals love Pope Francis, so why dont I quote him for you guys. "There is NO SALVATION outside the Catholic Church" :morningtoke:

Edited by Almond Flour (10/07/11 08:50 AM)

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OfflineLSDenthusiast
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Re: Help me solve this (spiritual) dilemma [Re: Almond Flour]
    #15190709 - 10/07/11 09:04 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Ethnobotanical. You read my response wrong. I'm saying to the person performing the action, there are no morals contained with in it. So this pertains to the person who kills my child.

I'm saying morals are man made and are there to govern society. I'm not saying morals are bad. They are in place to stop certain actions like the example you gave. I fully agree with you. Of course I would be upset if a man killed my child. I would have the desire to retaliate and kill him. That would be my appropriate action response to his action

I am not the same as a neurotic killer. Having no moral compass within does not mean you will become a killer or psychopath. That has more to do with the twisted neurosis of thought all jumbled up within that person. Having no beliefs or morals, does not mean all of a sudden you do every "bad" action that society tries to stop you from doing.

No, in fact you will find the appropriate response happens spontaneously. All these teachings of cultivating "dharma", right action to attain "enlightenment" is not a means to "enlightenment" as most eastern religions teach. If there is any such thing as "enlightenment" this right action is a by product of it.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Help me solve this (spiritual) dilemma [Re: LSDenthusiast]
    #15190739 - 10/07/11 09:12 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Ethnobotanical. You read my response wrong. I'm saying to the person performing the action, there are no morals contained with in it. So this pertains to the person who kills my child.

I'm saying morals are man made and are there to govern society. I'm not saying morals are bad. They are in place to stop certain actions like the example you gave. I fully agree with you. Of course I would be upset if a man killed my child. I would have the desire to retaliate and kill him. That would be my appropriate action response to his action. 

I am not the same as a neurotic killer. Having no moral compass within does not mean you will become a killer or psychopath. That has more to do with the twisted neurosis of thought all jumbled up within that person. Having no beliefs or morals, does not mean all of a sudden you do every "bad" action that society tries to stop you from doing.


Once again :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineLSDenthusiast
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Re: Help me solve this (spiritual) dilemma [Re: Icelander]
    #15190757 - 10/07/11 09:16 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for supporting my response, Icelander.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Help me solve this (spiritual) dilemma [Re: LSDenthusiast]
    #15190785 - 10/07/11 09:25 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

It's a subject close to me.  I realized long ago that moral values are subjective and rarely supported by the rest of the natural world.  My personal  path is to do my best  to discern life as it actually appears no matter how desirable or undesirable and make a life from that.  I've had to tear down a lot of sacred beliefs in this endeavor.  It's a real pain in the ass at times.  I'd rather the fairy tales were true. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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