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InvisibleDiploidM
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Tevatron Goes Ofline For Good
    #15181582 - 10/05/11 02:09 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)



A 26-year search for the keys to understanding the universe has come to an end at the U.S. Department of Energy’s Fermilab in suburban Chicago. The Tevatron Accelerator, one of the world's largest sub-atomic particle colliders, went offline permanently Friday. The Large Hadron Collider, or LHC, near Geneva, Switzerland, will take over one of the Tevatron's most important projects, tracking down the so-called “God Particle.”

For more than 15 years, physicist Robert Roser has searched for the elusive “Higgs Boson.”

“The Higgs Boson is a hypothetical particle that we believe exists to fix a flaw in the standard model," said Roser. "The standard model, to us, is our mathematical description of how the universe works.  The significant flaw in that model is that it doesn’t explain mass.”

Roser says the discovery of the Higgs Boson - known to many as the “God Particle” - could give scientists the answers they seek to some of humankind's biggest questions.

“We’re asking the question of how the universe works, and why is it built the way it is built?" he said.

To find the Higgs Boson at Fermilab, scientists have used the Tevatron's 6.5 - kilometer - long ring to slam protons and anti-protons together at near-light speeds.  In the burst of superheated particles that resulted, scientists looked for clues that the Higgs Boson exists. 

That elusive particle has not yet been found.  But since 1985, the Tevatron has made thousands of major discoveries, and in 1995 found one of the most fundamental bits of matter in the universe, known as the "top quark."

Still, past triumphs could not save the Tevatron from the reality of rising research costs and tighter budgets: 

“All good things will come to an end, and this will be the end for the Tevatron," said Pier Oddone.

Pier Oddone is the Director of Fermilab.  He says the funding needed to continue the kind of research that would lead to the Higgs Boson, if it exists at all, exceeds Fermilab’s $400 million annual budget.

“It is one third the budget of the laboratory in Geneva, Switzerland," he said.

The CERN laboratory in Geneva is home to the Large Hadron Collider.  Built in collaboration with Fermilab, it is a more powerful device than the Tevatron Accelerator.  With the Tevatron offline, the center of activity in this area of physics moves from the United States to Europe.

“In this last two decades that has shifted where the facility in Geneva went ahead and built this formidable machine, which we were trying to build in Texas called the Superconducting Supercollider," said Oddone. " We closed ours but the Europeans went ahead with theirs, and that is what has led to this differentiation now in the funding of laboratories.”

But even without the Tevatron, the U.S. is still well-represented in the field of particle physics.  Since the Tevatron began colliding, Fermilab scientist Robert Roser says it has been an international effort, and that effort will continue as the search goes on in Geneva. 

“There’s 15 nations that are participating on this experiment," he said. "Roughly 300 of the 600 collaborators on this experiment are from non-U.S. institutions.  So it’s very much a large multi-national or international collaboration.  All big science is these days.”

Even offline, the Tevatron will continue to play a role at Fermilab.  Engineers plan to open previously inaccessible parts of the collider tunnel, where they will display part of the accelerator and detectors in an exhibit the public can visit.

Voice of America


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Invisibleunknown1123
Experimental

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 5,813
Re: Tevatron Goes Ofline For Good [Re: Diploid]
    #15181990 - 10/05/11 03:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Gotta take away innovation to stay in the barbaric periods of war. :bigyesnod: mo money for fewer people


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Invisiblecortex
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Re: Tevatron Goes Ofline For Good [Re: Diploid]
    #15182561 - 10/05/11 05:58 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Didn't this happen a couple weeks ago?  Root for the Muon Collider, it's America's best hope of remaining on the bleeding edge of physics.  We've already proven we are incapable (or unwilling, not sure) of financing long term investments in high-energy physics (e.g. the SSC), so we can keep much of the infrastructure in place and build a muon collider capable of much higher energy collisions in the same footprint as the Tevatron.

Show those Euro-physicists who's who!


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Tevatron Goes Ofline For Good [Re: unknown1123]
    #15183512 - 10/05/11 08:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

unknown1123 said:
Gotta take away innovation to stay in the barbaric periods of war. mo money for fewer people




Nah, we can just spend that money on more fruitful ventures so we can innovate faster...

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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,729
Re: Tevatron Goes Ofline For Good [Re: unknown1123]
    #15184660 - 10/06/11 01:42 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

unknown1123 said:
Gotta take away innovation to stay in the barbaric periods of war.



Throughout the course of human history, the single phenomenon that has spawned by far the most innovation is war.

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Invisibleunknown1123
Experimental

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 5,813
Re: Tevatron Goes Ofline For Good [Re: koraks]
    #15185221 - 10/06/11 07:36 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

unknown1123 said:
Gotta take away innovation to stay in the barbaric periods of war.



Throughout the course of human history, the single phenomenon that has spawned by far the most innovation is war.



Very, very true...


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Tevatron Goes Ofline For Good [Re: cortex]
    #15185364 - 10/06/11 08:17 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

We've already proven we are incapable (or unwilling, not sure) of financing long term investments in high-energy physics

Americans are more interested in space stations. They're sexy and make for great 10 second spots on the 11 pm news. Particle accelerators don't even move. How boring! That's why the Supercollider is overgrown with weeds and all the money put into it wasted.

I think we've put the cart before the horse with the space station. It makes no sense to try to send people out to the moon or Mars until we've solved fusion energy. Once that's done, the world's energy problems will go away. Demand for energy is the root cause of many of our problems through contention for oil.

Imagine when electricity is so cheap, green, and fossil fuel free that you can grow food in the desert indoors where the climate and lighting are optimal and irrigate it with desalinated ocean water. It would end the struggle for arable land to grow food. That's cost prohibitive now because energy is expensive. If the obstacles to fusion energy are solved, electricity would become cheap and inexhaustible.

But noooo, instead we have to send humans to Mars at enormous cost to do a robot's job. Because it's sexy.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Tevatron Goes Ofline For Good [Re: Diploid]
    #15185531 - 10/06/11 09:05 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Imagine when electricity is so cheap, green, and fossil fuel free that you can grow food in the desert indoors where the climate and lighting are optimal and irrigate it with desalinated ocean water. It would end the struggle for arable land to grow food. That's cost prohibitive now because energy is expensive. If the obstacles to fusion energy are solved, electricity would become cheap and inexhaustible.




That would be wonderful until such time as the population boom that would happen led us to another constraint--probably spacial limitations. 

Quote:


Demand for energy is the root cause of many of our problems through contention for oil.





Once we stop fighting over energy, we'll be fighting over land that isn't full of people and feces.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Tevatron Goes Ofline For Good [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #15185632 - 10/06/11 09:34 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, all of that did occur to me.

Maybe the comforts and leisure time given us by cheap energy will help change human behavior, and particularly help humans abandon superstition and religion which seems to be at the heart of all our conflicts. That and our irrational drive to make more and more babies because the spaghetti monster said that's what we should do.

Eh, probably not. Not that I care. It's you young people who are in for a shitty life on a planet with 40 billion religious nuts.

A second dark age is coming. Me? I'll be gone by then. :razz:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,729
Re: Tevatron Goes Ofline For Good [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #15186014 - 10/06/11 11:21 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
Once we stop fighting over energy, we'll be fighting over land that isn't full of people and feces.



Nah, fresh water comes first.

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Tevatron Goes Ofline For Good [Re: koraks]
    #15186042 - 10/06/11 11:28 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

ChuangTzu said:
Once we stop fighting over energy, we'll be fighting over land that isn't full of people and feces.



Nah, fresh water comes first.




Once we had "unlimited" energy, we'd presumably be able to make as much fresh water as we wanted via desalination.

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Invisiblecortex
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Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 15,171
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Re: Tevatron Goes Ofline For Good [Re: koraks]
    #15186051 - 10/06/11 11:31 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I think the point then is that humans will find things to fight over for a very, very long time.  It's just who we are.  But also like you mentioned, war has brought about some of the most amazing scientific innovations years or even decades before they would have otherwise been discovered.

Why is that?  Is is simply because the easiest way to fund the projects like atom bombs and moon missions is through fear that someone else, potentially more powerful and dangerous, might do it first?


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,729
Re: Tevatron Goes Ofline For Good [Re: cortex]
    #15187063 - 10/06/11 03:01 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Fear of a public enemy unites us. That allows us to align interests and bring together the necessary resources. It's as simple as that :shrug:

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Tevatron Goes Ofline For Good [Re: Diploid]
    #15190147 - 10/07/11 03:59 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
We've already proven we are incapable (or unwilling, not sure) of financing long term investments in high-energy physics

Americans are more interested in space stations. They're sexy and make for great 10 second spots on the 11 pm news. Particle accelerators don't even move. How boring! That's why the Supercollider is overgrown with weeds and all the money put into it wasted.

I think we've put the cart before the horse with the space station. It makes no sense to try to send people out to the moon or Mars until we've solved fusion energy. Once that's done, the world's energy problems will go away. Demand for energy is the root cause of many of our problems through contention for oil.

Imagine when electricity is so cheap, green, and fossil fuel free that you can grow food in the desert indoors where the climate and lighting are optimal and irrigate it with desalinated ocean water. It would end the struggle for arable land to grow food. That's cost prohibitive now because energy is expensive. If the obstacles to fusion energy are solved, electricity would become cheap and inexhaustible.

But noooo, instead we have to send humans to Mars at enormous cost to do a robot's job. Because it's sexy.




Um, you know they ended the Space Shuttle program, right? It's not like NASA is swimming in cash.


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