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OfflineMotherNaturesSon
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Can you trip if youre permafried?
    #15176925 - 10/04/11 02:10 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Ive been smoking weed for 4 years everyday, 5 to more times a day. Tripping on mushrooms every month or two for a year or two.

Eventually I started getting panic attacks and feeling weird. So i stopped smoking.

But after a few panic attacks while being sober i got into a state of mind were i feel disconnected, and unfocused. I see afterimages of light, even the slightest of light. The afterimages can sometimes be so vivid that i can literally see what time it is and the background if i close my eyes looking at my iphone. I sometimes see visuals with my eyes closed that range from 'not there but there' to quite vivid. Especially when i'm tired and haven't slept, have smoked some weed (still smoke sometimes though very rarely and minuscule amounts-- to much makes me anxious, prolly just me) or drinking alcohol, ect. I also sometimes see dots of light id see specifically on come-downs from trips + weed.

I no longer have panic attacks, but this state im in points to one explanation- i'm permafried. maybe lightly. but permafried. if not- please do explain. Needless to say I havent tripped at all since this ordeal started, i did coincidentally trip the day before it all began. Though the trip was awesome and i felt completely normal during that specific day until i lit up a massive bowl in the evening.

Either way, whether this state is gonna go away sometime or not (had it for 5 months now every day on various levels.) i was just wondering in general:

How safe is it to trip on psychedelics if youre permafried? Or is that absolutely out of the question? Any experiences? Similarities? Because even though i stopped smoking weed, tripping is something id love to do sometime again in my life. Advice is welcome.

Peace.


--------------------
:watchingyou: :raptorJesus: :teabird: :watchingyou:

Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."


"The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."

Edited by MotherNaturesSon (10/04/11 02:12 PM)

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InvisibleGotlib
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Re: Can you trip if youre permafried? [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #15176936 - 10/04/11 02:13 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

moderation tastes much better and physical exercise will help

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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: Can you trip if youre permafried? [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #15176943 - 10/04/11 02:15 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, you can...it just takes on a different color.

I dissociate and forget who/where i am on low doses of mushrooms (after doing them hundreds of times)

Too much herb makes me very paranoid/anxious/quiet unless i have alcohol to balance it out.

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InvisibleGotlib
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Re: Can you trip if youre permafried? [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #15176957 - 10/04/11 02:18 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
Too much herb makes me very paranoid/anxious/quiet unless i have alcohol to balance it out.



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OfflineMotherNaturesSon
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Re: Can you trip if youre permafried? [Re: Gotlib]
    #15176962 - 10/04/11 02:19 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

The lesson of moderation is one I've learnt now and i WILL apply it.

Physical exercise does sound legit, since I haven't been working out my entire life whatsoever.

But does this sound like a case of permafrication? And would it be okay to trip sometime in the future even if this state continues?

-----

What do you mean by different color? Could you elaborate?

Well the dissociation is all very nice when it comes in small portions. 5 months is just... unsettling to say the least. I'm not feeling particularly freaked out, I can function all the same from what I experience so far, I'd just prefer my standard state of soberness when not high if you know what i mean?

I feel you on the weed/anxiety topic bro. Feelsbadman. I mean, I used to smoke the shit out of that herb with no trouble. Loved it like a girlfriend. Now it's mixed feelings. Little (and i do mean LITTLE) amounts seem to work fine.


--------------------
:watchingyou: :raptorJesus: :teabird: :watchingyou:

Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."


"The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."

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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: Can you trip if youre permafried? [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #15176988 - 10/04/11 02:25 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I rarely smoke and it only takes me a couple of hits to get blazed.

Ill eat acid all day but Ive been staying away from the mushrooms. I had the opportunity to do them a few times recently but every time Ive ended up giving them to someone else, since the last couple times i did them I didnt know who or where i was and thought i was gonna die.
Ever since i ate 80 grams they do that to me, no matter how small the amount.

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OfflineAlyDrops
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Re: Can you trip if youre permafried? [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #15177024 - 10/04/11 02:41 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

There is no such thing as "permafried" from psychedelics unless you eat like 50-100 hits of acid without being even remotely ready for it or you're one of the (extremely uncommon) actual cases of HPPD which, based on your description, you're not. I was in it much worse than what you've described and I'm back to normal. Exercise, eat healthy, take vitamins, get good sleep, and ignore your symptoms. Yes, ignore. If you believe something is wrong with you it won't go away. The less you pay attention to the visual blips the less prominent they will become, and the things I listed before, especially exercise and good sleep, will lower the rate of them happening (particularly afterimages). I would take a long break from drugs though to make sure it all goes smoothly. Eventually you'll be able to trip again and be fine, but remember that tripping is all you. These kinds of events tend to change who you are. Just because you can trip again doesn't mean that it'll necessarily be the same type of experience.

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OfflineMotherNaturesSon
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Re: Can you trip if youre permafried? [Re: AlyDrops]
    #15177041 - 10/04/11 02:54 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

AlyDrops, could you share? What have you gone through?

I also forgot to mention i see floaters and static (like little blue dots fuzzing around) in the sky.

What are the actual symptoms of HPPD? i thought the closed-eye visuals stole it and made it at least a case of HPPD. Do people ever get over HPPD btw?


--------------------
:watchingyou: :raptorJesus: :teabird: :watchingyou:

Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."


"The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: Can you trip if youre permafried? [Re: AlyDrops]
    #15177048 - 10/04/11 02:59 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

When I say "permafried" I pretty much just mean burnt out. Im a bit slower than I used to be, see tracers while sober, hear voices/music, etc.

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OfflineMotherNaturesSon
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Re: Can you trip if youre permafried? [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #15177069 - 10/04/11 03:08 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
When I say "permafried" I pretty much just mean burnt out. Im a bit slower than I used to be, see tracers while sober, hear voices/music, etc.




so you got this going on and it hasn't subsided for how long? And you still do trip? That's crazy, isn't it?


--------------------
:watchingyou: :raptorJesus: :teabird: :watchingyou:

Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."


"The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAlyDrops
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Re: Can you trip if youre permafried? [Re: MotherNaturesSon] * 1
    #15177180 - 10/04/11 04:12 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MotherNaturesSon said:
AlyDrops, could you share? What have you gone through?

I also forgot to mention i see floaters and static (like little blue dots fuzzing around) in the sky.

What are the actual symptoms of HPPD? i thought the closed-eye visuals stole it and made it at least a case of HPPD. Do people ever get over HPPD btw?




I used to do basically as many drugs as possible. Deliriants and psychedelics are my favorite experiences by far. I would take huge doses of any psych I could get my hands on. 20 Hofmann blotters, 9 MDA tabs, 80-90 mg of 2C-I with 32 mg of 4-AcO-DMT, stuff like that. One time I smoked roughly 110 mg of a mix of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT while I was peaking on two MDMA tabs and I don't remember more than a couple seconds worth of come-up, all I know is I suddenly "woke up" (it was more like coming out of a period of amnesia) half an hour later, and trust me, just because you don't remember a trip doesn't have aftereffects. The only one I never abused (because I actually respected it, and it's still the only one I respect the power of) is shrooms, the most I ever took was 5 grams (awesome, by the way!). I also frequently did diphenhydramine (Benadryl) because I actually liked it, not just because there weren't other drugs around, and occasionally DXM, but I avoided that because I liked saving my dissociative tolerance for the rare times I had access to ketamine and PCP. I also rolled waaay too frequently, which can take a heavy mental toll if you keep it up for too long. After I started getting tired of "basic" hallucinations (pushed along by the fact that my psychedelic tolerance was huge) I started taking even more DPH and taking large amounts of speed (higher than was safe for my level of tolerance) so that when I started coming down from it I could smoke weed or synthetic cannabinoids (sometimes blends, sometimes pure) to get the crazy sleep deprivation / extremely low dopamine visuals. JWH-250 was my favorite for that, I would get full out-of-body experience type visuals with eyes open. Salvia I tried for a while but I never really got very far into it, I started with a huge natural tolerance and it took me forever to get anywhere with it, and by the time I was getting somewhere I was about ready to quit doing all this shit. My few strong trips did leave an imprint, though.

By the end of it, I was fucking fried. If I stared in any direction for too long, all the surfaces of the room I would in would start to flow like rivers, but the directions kept changing and the angles it would change made it rotate in a triangular fashion, and each iteration of the triangle would also make each surface become more 3D, like they were all becoming tunnels back in whatever direction they faced. Extremely broken and muffled patterns would appear over them as this was happening, and a couple times I let it go for so long out of interest that the tunnels would fully form and the patterns would become unreadable worlds and mathematical equations flying back into each tunnel, although whenever I let things get that far I started getting the shakes so bad that I felt like I was about to have a seizure, so I had to stop. Also, when I would break out of those trances, I would have a massive panic attack, guaranteed. I saw my fingers turn dark purple and felt my hands turn ice cold every time, and I could feel my chest locking up and my breathing getting more and more labored. I've had people there several times, I was perfectly fine every time, but try telling that to someone in the middle of an attack like that and see what they think! Sometimes my afterimages were so bad that I felt like they were going to stack up and make me have an OBE, but I managed to keep them off. At night my vision would turn into a wheel of pulsing clouds that have colored dots and grid lines in them, they would circle around each other and get bigger and bigger every time, sometimes making me delirious, which also made it really hard to fall asleep. For a long time I thought I totally fucked myself over, all of my senses were so bad and I could barely think straight. Of course, I was still smoking weed every now and then, too. I stopped that but started drinking like crazy, which gave me heavy rebound anxiety and also caused me to have hallucinogenic hangovers. I finally stopped and quit using all drugs of any kind (even caffeine, trust me that has a much stronger role in things like afterimages than you may think, quitting it helped soooo much, but I also drank quite a lot, I used to chug Monster energy drinks all day in high school) and I've been clean for a pretty good amount of time now. I have a prescription for Xanax which I've never had to use because I started accepting that what I'd done to myself was not permanent nor had I actually caused any physical damage (I went to the hospital to verify that, obviously the drugs I was taking weren't the safest choices) and that if I learned to move on and get back to living a normal life they would go away.

Like I said, I started exercising, eating right (lost a lot of weight, too!), getting good sleep (melatonin is a life saver), and taking vitamins and supplements (hooray Piracetam!). I feel better than I ever have in my entire life, like I've survived something so horrible and managed to pull out of it still in my right mind. I don't get any visuals anymore unless I stare at something for a reeaaaaally long time, and even then it's just like mild moving (like most people can do even without drugs!), not even remotely similar to what I had before, and it doesn't bother me in any way or come with any mental effects. Now trust me, if I can get through all of that shit, you can pull out of this too. :smile:

For the record, the only cases I've read of "true" HPPD (I guess you could say I kinda had it in a way, but I'm talking about pure psychedelic HPPD here, mine was mostly as a result of combined hallucinogen use, the psychedelic influence was there but most just on the level of yours or maybe a little worse) were where the people that had it were getting level 3 (sometimes high level 3) peak visuals and strong dissociation literally every day for months or years after their trips. They all developed it only after periods of extremely heavy use. Some of them had to go on meds for a while but IIRC they all did eventually get over it.

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OfflineMotherNaturesSon
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Re: Can you trip if youre permafried? [Re: AlyDrops]
    #15177372 - 10/04/11 05:24 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you so much! your post was inspiring! I can relate to lots of it but on a much smaller scale. 

How about now? Are you taking any drugs at all sometimes? Or have you remained clean till this day?


--------------------
:watchingyou: :raptorJesus: :teabird: :watchingyou:

Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."


"The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."

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Invisibledrr
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Re: Can you trip if youre permafried? [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #15177413 - 10/04/11 05:32 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I had a slight HPPD thing going on for a while after I ate LSD frequently. It subsided after abstaining from it for a few months. The more you trip, the longer it will take you to get back down to baseline.

"Permafried" huh. As far as I'm concerned we are all. Because I don't know anybody who ate any significant amount of LSD and didn't come out of the experience a changed person. I'm changed for life.

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OfflineAlyDrops
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Re: Can you trip if youre permafried? [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #15177489 - 10/04/11 05:45 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MotherNaturesSon said:
Thank you so much! your post was inspiring! I can relate to lots of it but on a much smaller scale. 

How about now? Are you taking any drugs at all sometimes? Or have you remained clean till this day?




You're very welcome. :smile:

I'm still clean as of now. I do intend to one day go back to smoking weed and eventually (maybe after a couple years of just weed) start using shrooms again. I may also roll just a small number of times before I start smoking, because MDMA is the only drug that never gave me any anxiety at all, and I figure it couldn't hurt to ease myself back into things with some guaranteed-to-be-positive experiences. I think shrooms will probably be the only trip I'll ever need again, I've seen way more than I thought was possible on other drugs, and I personally feel that shrooms are the most powerful all-around substance. Like I said before, they're the only psychedelic I respect. I guess I just have like a strongly hardwired survival instinct because on absolutely every other hallucinogenic experience I've ever had, the second I become fully delirious or enter psychosis or have visuals so strong that I can't see any reality behind it, I just plant myself down and look around at stuff. All of my friends have been their to verify it several times (obviously my memory isn't very reliable during them). Even during things like DXM + LSD or diphenhydramine, once the trip fully kicks in I just sit it out, no craziness or even really interacting with anyone or anything, it's totally internalized. My dad was a huge acidhead in the '60s and '70s and he said he was the exact same way, so I guess it makes sense. I've never actually lost control on shrooms either but they're the only drug I've ever tried that makes me feel like I easily could. I can't wait until the day I can do them again, but I'm more than willing to wait and keep recovering. After all, I waited 18 years to try drugs originally, I can do it again if I have to!

Edited by AlyDrops (10/04/11 06:24 PM)

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Offlinehealing
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Re: Can you trip if youre permafried? [Re: drr]
    #15178335 - 10/04/11 08:35 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

drr said:
"Permafried" huh. As far as I'm concerned we are all. Because I don't know anybody who ate any significant amount of LSD and didn't come out of the experience a changed person. I'm changed for life.




Word.


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Open mind, open heart, open book.


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OfflineMotherNaturesSon
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Re: Can you trip if youre permafried? [Re: healing]
    #15179930 - 10/05/11 05:01 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

healing said:
Quote:

drr said:
"Permafried" huh. As far as I'm concerned we are all. Because I don't know anybody who ate any significant amount of LSD and didn't come out of the experience a changed person. I'm changed for life.




Word.





Change is change, I agree one is definitely changed after a trip, but his sober 'state', so to speak, remains a default normal. Which in my case it doesn't seem to apply. :shrug:


--------------------
:watchingyou: :raptorJesus: :teabird: :watchingyou:

Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII:

"Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions."
"So you believe in intensions?"
"No. I believe in being genuine."


"The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."

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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Can you trip if youre permafried? [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #15180106 - 10/05/11 06:48 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MotherNaturesSon said:
AlyDrops, could you share? What have you gone through?

I also forgot to mention i see floaters and static (like little blue dots fuzzing around) in the sky.

What are the actual symptoms of HPPD? i thought the closed-eye visuals stole it and made it at least a case of HPPD. Do people ever get over HPPD btw?





  Floaters are actually floating blobs of goo inside old people's eyeballs. When the blob passes in front of the iris it blurrs out vision totally.  I dont think you have floaters lol
  And the dots thing is called "seeing stars" and is not related either.

Edited by cpw1971 (10/05/11 06:51 AM)

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Offlinecasablanca
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Re: Can you trip if youre permafried? [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #15180131 - 10/05/11 07:03 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

"Permafrication" Lol!!!! That's my new word of the day.:wink:


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Through the darkness of futures past, the magician longs to see, one chants out between two worlds......Fire Walk With Me

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Re: Can you trip if youre permafried? [Re: casablanca]
    #15180167 - 10/05/11 07:18 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

or how about the fear of......  permaficosis???

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InvisibleSociety
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Re: Can you trip if youre permafried? [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #15180810 - 10/05/11 10:56 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MotherNaturesSon said:
Ive been smoking weed for 4 years everyday, 5 to more times a day. Tripping on mushrooms every month or two for a year or two.

Eventually I started getting panic attacks and feeling weird. So i stopped smoking.

But after a few panic attacks while being sober i got into a state of mind were i feel disconnected, and unfocused. I see afterimages of light, even the slightest of light. The afterimages can sometimes be so vivid that i can literally see what time it is and the background if i close my eyes looking at my iphone. I sometimes see visuals with my eyes closed that range from 'not there but there' to quite vivid. Especially when i'm tired and haven't slept, have smoked some weed (still smoke sometimes though very rarely and minuscule amounts-- to much makes me anxious, prolly just me) or drinking alcohol, ect. I also sometimes see dots of light id see specifically on come-downs from trips + weed.

I no longer have panic attacks, but this state im in points to one explanation- i'm permafried. maybe lightly. but permafried. if not- please do explain. Needless to say I havent tripped at all since this ordeal started, i did coincidentally trip the day before it all began. Though the trip was awesome and i felt completely normal during that specific day until i lit up a massive bowl in the evening.

Either way, whether this state is gonna go away sometime or not (had it for 5 months now every day on various levels.) i was just wondering in general:

How safe is it to trip on psychedelics if youre permafried? Or is that absolutely out of the question? Any experiences? Similarities? Because even though i stopped smoking weed, tripping is something id love to do sometime again in my life. Advice is welcome.

Peace.




OP, you sound is if you have a cannabis-induced anxiety/HPPD disorder. 

I have this. :frown:

I have had it for almost eight or so years.  I was never a daily smoker, but I almost completely quit about six years ago to rectify my HPPD/anxiety.  It never went away, but I got used it.  I have similar visuals distortions, panic attacks, and the feelings of dissociation... feeling out of it all the time.  Sucks.  Perhaps the symptoms have gotten milder over the years... but I think I have just gotten used to it.


Oddly enough, psychedelics have not worsened my condition in any way.  If anything, they've helped me work through it.

Cannabis affects the brain chemistry considerably differently than traditional psychedelics (mush, LSD).

I'd quit cannabis for several months, if I were you.  And be cautious with psychedelics.


--------------------
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