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Offlinethatguy0
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Old Vermiculite: Trich Harborer?
    #15175832 - 10/04/11 09:33 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Hi all, so recently my past few monotub grows have gone south to the wonderful trichoderma during the spawn run.

I had many suspicions as to what was causing it: contaminated spawn, cleanliness during spawning, tape/polyfill/tyvek over tub holes, saran wrapping the lid, high temperatures in the past few months, improper pasteurization.

I tried remedying each grow by changing one of the above variables each time, all to no avail. However, recently I tried baking my vermiculite at 350° for an hour, then adding it to my coir prepared via Damion5050's bucket tek. The three tubs I prepared this way colonized very quickly, smell and look right and were fruited today.

My vermiculite has been from a huge bag I bought about a year ago, not really sealed in any way, kept in storage. Could this "dirty" vermiculite really be the culprit in my failures?

For the record, I have also tried properly pasteurizing my mix, without baking the verm prior (Load into jars on the stovetop, kept at 140-160° for an hour), and this grow also failed. How can this be?

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Offlinejimmyjame1
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Re: Old Vermiculite: Trich Harborer? [Re: thatguy0]
    #15175876 - 10/04/11 09:45 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

if you are pasturizing and sterylizing your sub then any contams on the verm would have been long killed. perhaps its your grow area? i would say check your pasturizing tec and spawning tec. make sure you are being clean in those processes. if you continue having this problem perhaps you could try moving them into another spot, sometimes a room can become infected with trich and its almost impossible to deal with


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Offlinethatguy0
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Re: Old Vermiculite: Trich Harborer? [Re: jimmyjame1]
    #15175915 - 10/04/11 10:00 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I have also tried preparing the tubs in front of my flowhood. With the tub holes sealed and the lid saran wrapped, would the spore count in the room really matter?

Also after a few contaminated tubs I deep cleaned the room, spraying bleach solution and alcohol on all the walls and surfaces, as well as using a carpet extractor to clean the carpet. I also run a HEPA filter in the room 24/7.

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OfflineSexySmurff
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Re: Old Vermiculite: Trich Harborer? [Re: thatguy0]
    #15175921 - 10/04/11 10:01 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

i would put something over the carpet like plastic.  what brand of coir are you using?


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Exalted is He from what they utter. Exalted is He from what they imagine. Exalted is He that exists without a place. Exalted is He that was there forever without a time or a beginning. Exalted is He that will be there forever without a time or an end. Exalted is He that will forever be praised. That is your God.

Edited by SexySmurff (10/04/11 10:03 AM)

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Offlineluckee8989
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Re: Old Vermiculite: Trich Harborer? [Re: SexySmurff]
    #15175943 - 10/04/11 10:08 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Makes sense to me. Verm doesn't contain any nutrients so it wouldn't cultivate the trich, but if as you say your verm is pretty and old and hasn't been sealed then it's very possible some trich spores got their way into the bag. Especially if cooking the verm obviously helped- I say buy a new bag of verm. And you might want to resterilize your grow area after.

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Offlinejimmyjame1
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Re: Old Vermiculite: Trich Harborer? [Re: luckee8989]
    #15175958 - 10/04/11 10:11 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

i dont think the verm has anything to do with it. like you said it is un-nutritious and if its being pasturized/ sterilized then there should be no way the verm has contams.

check your spore solution perhaps it went bad.

and yeah growing on carpet is like begging for trouble. carpet is horrible for holding spores and bacteria


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Offlinethatguy0
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Re: Old Vermiculite: Trich Harborer? [Re: thatguy0]
    #15176017 - 10/04/11 10:24 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I have plastic covering the carpet in the closet (door always open) where my tubs are.

I'm using EcoEarth brand coir.

I also don't believe vermiculite is non-nutritious, seeing as how many people use it straight as a bulk substrate; usually called the "res-effect".

I'm also going to make a tub of straight coir soon to take the vermiculite out of the equation.

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Offlinejimmyjame1
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Re: Old Vermiculite: Trich Harborer? [Re: thatguy0]
    #15176034 - 10/04/11 10:30 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

lol im think you've misunderstood the res-effect. yes Verm is has no nutrition. im pretty sure that the water from the verm is the only thing helping myc grow in the res effect.

think about what verm is, its a volcanic rock, used to airate soil and hold moisture. there is no organic material in it to break down,


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Offlineluckee8989
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Re: Old Vermiculite: Trich Harborer? [Re: thatguy0]
    #15176035 - 10/04/11 10:30 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I also don't believe vermiculite is non-nutritious, seeing as how many people use it straight as a bulk substrate; usually called the "res-effect".

--

It's not nutritious, period...vermiculite is a mineral and doesn't contain anything.

You guys are not differentiating between Trich SPORES and Trich Mold. Spores will grow into mold. My guess is that you have spores in your bag of verm and when you use that verm you are putting those spores in your substrate and thus cultivating those spores in trich mold.

That's why you did not receive mold when you cooked + sterilized the verm first. Spores will stay viable for a long time but were killed when you cooked them.

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Offlinejimmyjame1
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Re: Old Vermiculite: Trich Harborer? [Re: luckee8989]
    #15176044 - 10/04/11 10:33 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

luckee8989 said:


My guess is that you have spores in your bag of verm and when you use that verm you are putting those spores in your substrate and thus cultivating those spores in trich mold.






it wouldnt matter whats on the verm spores or no spores if proper sterilization is completed, or at least pasteurization


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InvisibleMeetzu
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Re: Old Vermiculite: Trich Harborer? [Re: jimmyjame1]
    #15176072 - 10/04/11 10:44 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

jimmyjame1 said:
lol im think you've misunderstood the res-effect. yes Verm is has no nutrition. im pretty sure that the water from the verm is the only thing helping myc grow in the res effect.

think about what verm is, its a volcanic rock, used to airate soil and hold moisture. there is no organic material in it to break down,




I would tend to disagree with this. There are some nutrients in verm as far as mineral content (there are multiple posts by TCs that corroborate this), but I agree that you aren't going to have stuff germinating and growing on it when it's dry in the bag. However, you can have contaminate spores that have landed on it and are waiting for an environment to germinate in but this would not be an issue if it was properly pasteurized/sterilized.


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Offlineluckee8989
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Re: Old Vermiculite: Trich Harborer? [Re: jimmyjame1]
    #15176612 - 10/04/11 12:57 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I
Quote:

jimmyjame1 said:
Quote:

luckee8989 said:


My guess is that you have spores in your bag of verm and when you use that verm you are putting those spores in your substrate and thus cultivating those spores in trich mold.






it wouldnt matter whats on the verm spores or no spores if proper sterilization is completed, or at least pasteurization




OP said his monotubs all contam'd
Quote:

during the spawn run.


Not after he steam sterilized jars.

His steam-sterilized jars are fine and non-contam'd. It is the contam'd verm added to the coir that is contaming it.

Easy thing to read over.

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OfflineSexySmurff
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Re: Old Vermiculite: Trich Harborer? [Re: luckee8989]
    #15176622 - 10/04/11 12:58 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Not after he steam sterilized jars.

His steam-sterilized jars are fine and non-contam'd. It is the contam'd verm added to the coir that is contaming it.

Easy thing to read over






where did you get that he steam sterilized his spawn?


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Exalted is He from what they utter. Exalted is He from what they imagine. Exalted is He that exists without a place. Exalted is He that was there forever without a time or a beginning. Exalted is He that will be there forever without a time or an end. Exalted is He that will forever be praised. That is your God.

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OfflineXAXAU
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Re: Old Vermiculite: Trich Harborer? [Re: SexySmurff]
    #15176913 - 10/04/11 02:07 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Since I got my AA 915 I PC everything. Even my smelly socks :smile:

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Offlinethatguy0
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Re: Old Vermiculite: Trich Harborer? [Re: XAXAU]
    #15177323 - 10/04/11 05:13 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I PC'ed my spawn. I have used many different spore syringes as well as agar wedges to inoculate in these previous grows I speak of.

I am still in firm belief that the vermiculite is the culprit; it's just curious to me how I can do the bucket tek as well as proper pasteurization, yet without baking the verm prior to adding it before these methods I always get trich.

I would think the heat from the boiling water in the bucket tek or the pasteurization temperatures on the stove would take care of it without baking, however my results say otherwise. I will update this thread with the status of my tubs with the baked verm.

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OfflineSexySmurff
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Re: Old Vermiculite: Trich Harborer? [Re: thatguy0]
    #15177345 - 10/04/11 05:18 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

it's quite plausible that your verm is harboring trich spores.


--------------------
Exalted is He from what they utter. Exalted is He from what they imagine. Exalted is He that exists without a place. Exalted is He that was there forever without a time or a beginning. Exalted is He that will be there forever without a time or an end. Exalted is He that will forever be praised. That is your God.

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OfflineTheMackologist
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Re: Old Vermiculite: Trich Harborer? [Re: XAXAU]
    #15177468 - 10/04/11 05:41 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

XAXAU said:
Since I got my AA 915 I PC everything. Even my smelly socks :smile:





yummmmmmm :trippinballs:


--------------------
Cheers! :beer:
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"you wait so long
you wait so long
you wait so long
you wait so long

it's a coffee stained earth every time it happens
liven up honey it ain't that bad"

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