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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) * 10
    #15158218 - 09/30/11 01:48 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags)


When it comes to mushroom growing everyone seems to have their own methods
and ways of going about things that works for them. Here I will document
my process of preparing grain spawn for jars and bags.




Step 1 - Soaking Grain

1. First figure out how much grain spawn you will need. For this run I
am using 15lbs of dry rye.



2. Place your grain into a pot large enough to soak and simmer. I usually
use my 21L PC or a smaller stock pot. Pour in water from the tap, as hot
as you can get it until you have a 4-5 inch water line above the level of
grain. Agitate the grain to rinse off dirt, debris and other foreign
particles. Then pour out the water and any floaters. Do this as many
times as needed until your water begins to pour clear.

First, Second and Third Rinse



3.Next add gypsum to the soak water in relation to the amount of grain
you are processing. I use a few heaping tablespoons for the batch of
15lbs of rye pictured here.



4. I now let my grains soak for 12-18 hours. After this time I place the
pot onto a burner to bring to a simmer. If I am using my smaller stock
pot I use my ceramic stove top for this part, but since I am using my
PC for the soak and simmer I am forced to use a portable stove top. I
bring my grain mixture to a simmer and then stir it occasionally for
around 10 minutes.



5. Once my mixture has simmered for 10 minutes I use a plastic strainer
to strain off excess water from my grain. MAKE sure that your grain is
properly hydrated before straining. You should be able to easily break
apart the grain using your finger nail.




Step 2 - Drying Your Grains


I have two methods of drying my grains depending upon the size of the
batch I am doing. If I am doing under 10 lbs I use two large cookie sheets
to dry out my grain. If I am doing over 10lbs I spread out a towel on
my kitchen table to absorb heat, followed by a plastic trash bag to
spread my grain on to dry.

A third option is to construct a wooden frame and staple some heavy duty
pet screen over top of it. I have plans to build myself something along
these lines in the future as my need for grain spawn is always expanding.

Method #1 - For 10lbs of grain and under


1. Prepare your cookie sheets my laying down 2 layers of kitchen towel.
This will absorb any excess moisture that was left from straining. To
anyone who says this is a waste, the paper towel goes into my compost
bin after.



2. Lay down your still steaming grain onto the cookie sheet and kitchen
towel and spread evenly. I never place more then around an inch and a
half of grain onto each cookie sheet.



3. Let sit for 4-5 minutes and then move the grain around to expose any
moist grains. Keep moving the grain around every 5 minutes or so until
it is nice and dry. You can test your grain by scooping a tablespoon
onto a piece of toilet paper and leaving for 30 seconds. After 30 seconds
lift the paper dumping the grains. If any moisture spots are left on the
toilet paper the grains are not yet dry.

4. Load your grain into jars or bags as needed.


Method #2 - For more then 10lbs of grain


1. Lay down as many towels as needed over your work area to protect it
from heat. Next cut as many black heavy duty trash bags as needed to
cover your work area.



2. Lay out your still steaming grain onto the trash bag and spread it
around as thin as possible.



3. Let sit for 4-5 minutes and then move the grain around to expose any
moist grains. Keep moving the grain around every 5 minutes or so until
it is nice and dry. You can test your grain by scooping a tablespoon
onto a piece of toilet paper and leaving for 30 seconds. After 30 seconds
lift the paper dumping the grains. If any moisture spots are left on the
toilet paper the grains are not yet dry.

4. Load your grain into jars or bags as needed.


Step 3 - Pressure Cooking Your Jars/Bags


Method #1 - Using Jars

Preparation - Gas Exchange

Their are more then a few ways to go about making lids for your grain
jars. I personally use Synthetic Filter Discs at this point as they are
quick to prepare, reusable and all around easier to deal with IMO then
tyvek and polyfil. I simply place 2 1/4" holes in my metal lid, and then
place a SFD on top of the metal lid before screwing on the ring.

I have used polyfil in the past as well with success, I would make a hole
in the metal jar lid, ream it out to avoid cutting myself and then roll
up a ball of polyfil in my hand. I would then double it over and pull
it through the hole I had made making sure it was nice and snug.



1. After loading your jars screw down your pre-made lids.



2. Cover your jars in a layer of heavy duty tinfoil.



3. Place into your pressure cooker and follow all manufacturer's guidelines
as far as bringing it up to pressure. Be sure to allow your PC to vent
steam for 10 minutes before placing your toggle weight on.



4. Pressure cook your jars for no less then 90 minutes at 15 PSI. If
you are using larger jars then 1L add more time.


Method 2- Using Spawn Bags

.2 Micron Filter Patch Bag & Tyvek Wrist Sleeve


I am not going to lie, this is the second run I have done with spawn
bags but so far this method has treated me good, and has resulted in
clean beautiful grain bags that have gone on to fully colonized with
shiitake mycelium.

1. Put 3.5L (or more) of grain in each large gusseted spawn bag. I
use tyvek sleeves in the gusset to act as a filter for when my PC is
cooling. This prevents the contaminates that enter your PC after the
pressure equalizes from contaminating your bags.



2.Fold the gusset with the tyvek sleeve in place "accordion" style so that
it is folded back and forth over itself several times. I like to leave a little
bit of the sleeve hanging out so I can tuck the tyvek under the fold which
has the filter patch. I find if you do not do this sometimes the filter
patch can rip off while unfolding the bags. The layer of tyvek between the
filter patch and the plastic seems to help stop this.




3. Place a tinfoil buffer around the side walls of your PC and on top
of your trivet above the water line as shown below. This will stop your
bags from touching the side walls of your PC which from my experience
with sawdust substrate bags can pop holes or otherwise weaken the plastic
of spawn bags.



4. I then set a layer of jar rings on top of the tinfoil and gently
placed my grain bag into the cooker. Different PC's will allow for different
arrangements, but I can fit two bags stacked one on top of each other
comfortably in my PC, or 3 with 2 on the bottom snugged into place and
one on top. I separate my bags with more jar rings.



5. Place a plate on top of your bags to stop them from inflating during
the cycle and blocking your pressure vents. I use a plate, some people
use a plate with a 5lb weight, use whatever you have available, BUT BE
SURE TO USE SOMETHING TO STOP AN INFLATED BAG FROM BLOCKING PRESSURE
VENTS.



6. Pressure cook your bags for around 2 hours if you have used 3L of
grain or less per bag. Anymore then 3L and you should be running for
at least 2 1/2-3 hours IMO. The larger the bags the longer the PC time
that is needed to penetrate into the core of your grain. Also be sure
to allow your PC to vent steam for 5-10 minutes before placing on your
toggle weight.

7. After your run let your PC cool naturally for 8-12 hours before doing
anything. After it is cooled remove your bags gently from your cooker.
As you can see the bags seem to have a lot of condensation and moisture
on the inside, this will be taken care of during the next step.




8. Place your spawn bags in front of your laminar flow hood and assemble
your materials. You will need your regular gear (gloves, wrist sleeves,
face mask, hair cover etc) along with your tools for sanitation and to
keep with aseptic technique (ISO alc, kitchen towel etc). As well you
will need a pair of scissors and some zip ties. Wipe down your work area,
your bags, along with the scissors and zip ties.



9. Using proper sterile procedure and technique open your bags and remove
the tyvek sleeve. Be sure to always have your bags in front of the laminar
flow, especially when you pull the gussets apart. Next take your zip
tie and wrap it around your bag above the filter without coming between
the flow of sterile air and your bag opening. Quickly and carefully zip
tie the bag shut.



10. Gently shake and move around the grains to distribute excess moisture
and you will notice the wet look will go away. Set aside until you
are ready to use the bags for grain 2 grain or other procedures.

Here is a bag 4 days(First two pictures) and 8 days after inoculating with 1L of
shiitake spawn:


Edited by EvilMushroom666 (09/30/11 02:58 PM)

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Offlinethatguy0
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15158255 - 09/30/11 01:55 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Nice guide, I do my bags exactly the way you do. In step 9 be sure to mention inoculation as well.

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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: thatguy0] * 1
    #15158277 - 09/30/11 01:59 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I do not always use my bags right away, therefore do not always inoculate
right away. Ill zip tie them set them aside and when I am ready to spawn
I just wipe down the bag with ISO alc, use a pair of sterilized metal
scissors to cut the top off the bag below the zip tie(Using my laminar
flow hood) and then inoculate with agar wedge, G2G, etc and zip tie closed
again.

I find that grain bags have less of a shelf life in comparison to jars
tho do keep in mind.

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15158306 - 09/30/11 02:04 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Great pictorial guide :thumbup: Good work as always EM :congrats:


--------------------



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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: LeopardMan]
    #15158323 - 09/30/11 02:08 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

:hatsoff: Thank you LM.

I have seen a few questions about using spawn bags to run grain in and
after posting the same small pictorial I figured I would make a tek and
show everyone how I go about preparing my grain.

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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: thatguy0]
    #15158401 - 09/30/11 02:30 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

:super:


--------------------
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"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #15158602 - 09/30/11 03:11 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for taking the time to show us your methods. Bookmarked for reference, for when i need to step up my spawn production for edibles :thumbup:

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #15158611 - 09/30/11 03:13 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Cool, I will try this method next time around. I am wondering how you transfer your grains into jars or bags from that table? Seems like it would be a pain in the neck to scrape that off the table into jars.

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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: mikesethnobotany]
    #15158627 - 09/30/11 03:15 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I fill the bags and jars with a plastic scoop(like for soup). Iv never
considered it a pain personally.

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15158749 - 09/30/11 03:42 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

great post! will use for when i get rye!


--------------------
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OfflineSKrink
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15158750 - 09/30/11 03:42 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

You can also get jar-fillers (they're just wide-neck funnels) to make getting grain into jars easier and neater. I got mine couple months ago and now I don't know what I'd do without it.

Evilmushroom666, you mentioned using a portable stove for soak/simmer/PC--
Quote:

EvilMushroom666 said:
since I am using my PC for the soak and simmer I am forced to use a portable stove top.




Do portable stove tops do well getting PC's up to pressure too? If so, I'd love to know what kind you're using as I have always been under the impression that they don't get hot enough for building/maintaing the pressure we want.

A portable stovetop would solve so many problems for me, as my current kitchen stove burners only work on HIGH... so to maintain constant 15psi I gotta stay by its side and turn the burner on and off every couple of minutes for 2 fucking hours. Yes, I would buy a new stove but no, I cannot afford it right now.


--------------------
:crazy2: SWEET POTATO HOME FRIES :crazy2:
:mushroom2:HOW TO USE A PENIS ENVY SPORE SWAB:mushroom2:

   

... Oh mighty masticator, salivator, vocalizer, swallower, licker biter sucker brow-knitter looker blinker rubbernecker thumber prodder up-yours fingerer ringwearer nosepicker waver drinker armlifter bodybender hipswiveler kneer springer runner ZERO::::::::OOOOOOOOO:::::::: RUN!!!

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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: SKrink]
    #15158805 - 09/30/11 03:55 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I use this burner:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/8/KitchenBath/2/Appliances/SpecialtyAppliances/PRD~0431200P/Salton+Single+Burner+Portable+Range.jsp?locale=en

I currently own two of them, and they output around 1200-1300W each. They
heat up fairly quickly, and if I pre-heat my PC's while the grain is
drying I can usually get up to pressure and rocking fairly fast.

Also I place a towel on my counter top and then a piece of sheet metal
larger then the burner to shield the counter from heat.

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OfflineSKrink
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15158950 - 09/30/11 04:31 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

:super: Thanks for the link! Good to know these work for PC, though I expect I'll have to look for one with similar wattage as yours.
Will check around in my area... for $20, it's the answer to my prayers.


--------------------
:crazy2: SWEET POTATO HOME FRIES :crazy2:
:mushroom2:HOW TO USE A PENIS ENVY SPORE SWAB:mushroom2:

   

... Oh mighty masticator, salivator, vocalizer, swallower, licker biter sucker brow-knitter looker blinker rubbernecker thumber prodder up-yours fingerer ringwearer nosepicker waver drinker armlifter bodybender hipswiveler kneer springer runner ZERO::::::::OOOOOOOOO:::::::: RUN!!!

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Offlinecloudsaregathering
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15159377 - 09/30/11 06:24 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

EvilMushroom666 said:
I use this burner:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/8/KitchenBath/2/Appliances/SpecialtyAppliances/PRD~0431200P/Salton+Single+Burner+Portable+Range.jsp?locale=en

I currently own two of them, and they output around 1200-1300W each. They
heat up fairly quickly, and if I pre-heat my PC's while the grain is
drying I can usually get up to pressure and rocking fairly fast.

Also I place a towel on my counter top and then a piece of sheet metal
larger then the burner to shield the counter from heat.




Holy shit this whole time I thought 'Canadian Tire' was just a myth...


--------------------

"the root of the problem has been isolated"

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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: cloudsaregathering]
    #15160193 - 09/30/11 09:51 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Nope real place :bubbles: lol

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15160307 - 09/30/11 10:25 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I thought that with a synthetic filter disc there was no need for foil on the jars?

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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: communeart]
    #15160317 - 09/30/11 10:27 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

communeart said:
I thought that with a synthetic filter disc there was no need for foil on the jars?




Some people do not bother with it, I personally do. If I do not my filters
get wet from raining down water throughout the PC cycle. For me it is peace
of mind.

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15160343 - 09/30/11 10:36 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


3. Place a tinfoil buffer around the side walls of your PC and on top
of your trivet above the water line as shown below. This will stop your
bags from touching the side walls of your PC which from my experience
with sawdust substrate bags can pop holes or otherwise weaken the plastic
of spawn bags.




is taht required for bags using grains?

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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: communeart]
    #15160351 - 09/30/11 10:39 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I personally find it helps. When I first started making sawdust bags I
had issues with pinholes at the bottom of the bags after PCing. I did some
research and came across Monster Mitches using bags for grain spawn. He
suggested lining the inside of your PC with tinfoil so the bags do not
directly touch the 252F side walls of the PC during the cycle. Since I
have done this I have not had any bags with pinholes or melted spots.

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15160490 - 09/30/11 11:21 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Top notch work, EM! :smile: :thumbup:  Thank you, for putting this together.

:highfive:


--------------------
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: HorizonSpawn]
    #15160507 - 09/30/11 11:25 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

nice job :toast:


:slomo:


--------------------


    CrAnKy PiLlOwS YeAh PiLlOwS

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15160514 - 09/30/11 11:27 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

EvilMushroom666 said:
I personally find it helps. When I first started making sawdust bags I
had issues with pinholes at the bottom of the bags after PCing. I did some
research and came across Monster Mitches using bags for grain spawn. He
suggested lining the inside of your PC with tinfoil so the bags do not
directly touch the 252F side walls of the PC during the cycle. Since I
have done this I have not had any bags with pinholes or melted spots.




I do something similar, but by luck.

...another of the really nice things about my AA 925X is the "liner bucket"
that drops down into the PC.  I need to use the jar rings to help steam
penetrate all around the bags, but otherwise I do not have to worry about
the bags touching the sides.

Nice thread bro!

JD


--------------------
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: HorizonSpawn]
    #15160568 - 09/30/11 11:41 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Could you just wrap your bags in foil and then put them in the PC?

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: kcbennie]
    #15160582 - 09/30/11 11:44 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

kcbennie said:
Could you just wrap your bags in foil and then put them in the PC?




I guess you could but I would think that wrapping the inside of your PC
would be a lot easier to deal with.

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15172493 - 10/03/11 04:06 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Where do you obtain Synthetic filter discs? There is only one person selling them on ebay and they are like $1 each.


--------------------
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: evilmushroom]
    #15172511 - 10/03/11 04:12 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

It is very clever to line the pressure cooker with aluminum foil for doing bags. Would there be any advantage to this for quart jars?

When you soak for 12 - 18 hours, why do you exclude coffee? I thought it was common practice to add coffee to soaks.


--------------------
"We are not to imagine or suppose, but to discover, what nature does or may be made to do." - Francis Bacon

Edited by evilmushroom (10/03/11 04:18 PM)

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: evilmushroom]
    #15173343 - 10/03/11 06:57 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

You can purchase discs from a few of the Shroomery vendors.

I do not see any benefit from lining your PC with tinfoil to pressure
cook jars. Also I have heard of adding coffee to soak water for certain
psilocybes and sclerotia producing species, but aside from that I did not
think it was all that common of a practice.

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15174629 - 10/03/11 11:08 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Hey EM.  I always use coffee (and gypsum) to my soak water.

...please let me know if you hear any negatives about it!

LOL.

JD


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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: Javadog]
    #15174638 - 10/03/11 11:11 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I have never heard any negatives about it, just did not really think that
a lot of people bothered with it unless they where growing stones or something
along those lines. I do not drink coffee so its not something I ever really
have around.

I do plan on asking a few relatives to start saving spent grounds so I
can test adding small amounts to my shiitake blocks but passed that:shrug:

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15174846 - 10/04/11 12:27 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

If you have a Starbucks near you, then get some from them.

They actually put their used grounds into bags and have them for customer
pickup.  I wanted the "pucks" and so I asked them, and they threw them into
a bag for me.

Very cool.

Take care,

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: Javadog]
    #15175218 - 10/04/11 04:33 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

:nothingtoadd:


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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: DynGBreeD]
    #15175242 - 10/04/11 04:48 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

once you have PC your grain jars, how long can you keep them without inoculation and whatway do you store em?

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: Kastro]
    #15175298 - 10/04/11 05:25 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Nice write up. :thumbup:

I used jar lids to keep my bags away from the sides of the pressure cooker.


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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: Kastro]
    #15175512 - 10/04/11 07:30 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Kastro said:
once you have PC your grain jars, how long can you keep them without inoculation and whatway do you store em?




About 4-5 weeks and I store them on an open shelf at room temperature.
Less for grain bags

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15176559 - 10/04/11 12:44 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

EvilMushroom666 said:
Quote:

Kastro said:
once you have PC your grain jars, how long can you keep them without inoculation and whatway do you store em?




About 4-5 weeks and I store them on an open shelf at room temperature.
Less for grain bags




that a lot longer than i thought, sweet, thanks for that.

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: Kastro]
    #15176666 - 10/04/11 01:08 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I was rereading this today and thinking about your method, evilmushroom666.

I understand that the gusseted bags have tyvek placed in them and then the are folded "accordian" style. Despite this, I do not understand how you get the bag and tyvek to stay down in such neat brick-like cubes. Are you using tape or is this just the result of your folding?

Also, just to clarify, I have been soaking with the actual coffee, not the grounds. I do not know what other use the coffee grounds would have other than that, although I once used them in petri dishes.


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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: evilmushroom]
    #15176697 - 10/04/11 01:14 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Just the result of a nice tight fold. No tape or anything along those lines.

For a visual guide you can view the previews on Roger Rabbits Lets Grow
Mushrooms DVD sawdust substrate section. He shows how to fold the spawn
bag with the tyvek wrist sleeve inserted.

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15177052 - 10/04/11 03:02 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Are those weights on your spawn bags?

I only have tyvek in the sheet form. I watched the RR videos and reread your guide. This is what I've been able to come up with:





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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: evilmushroom]
    #15177170 - 10/04/11 04:04 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Yes those are weights on top of my bags. They are there for no other reason
then to hold my fold in place before loading into the PC.

Looks like you have the idea but try to get things tighter. What I do is
fold the bag over tight against the rye or sawdust and make sure that it
is nice and tight. I then start my back and forth folds and try not to
make them as wide as yours. The more folds you get, the tighter things
will be I find.

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15221945 - 10/13/11 08:29 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

:bump:

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15222058 - 10/13/11 08:50 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

You mentioned you'd just started using spawn bags, I'm the same way. I've had some pretty good success with them so far, are yours still comin' out great as well?

It was nice spawning with them, a lot faster than working with a bunch of jars.


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Edited by Masticore (10/13/11 08:54 PM)

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: Masticore]
    #15222109 - 10/13/11 08:58 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Things are coming along well:

Here are three spawn bags, each with 5.5L of shiitake spawn. The strains
are A-10, CS and H01. I inoculated each 4.5L bag with 1L of grain spawn
from a jar on September 27th and they are just finished up now.



If I had done this amount of spawn in jars I would easily be looking at
24 or so 1L jars.

Edited by EvilMushroom666 (10/13/11 09:05 PM)

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15223321 - 10/14/11 01:48 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Nice work EM.

I also made quarts of four of the Shitake strains.  I G2Ged them to
similar sized grain sacks (a tad less).  I spawned them to four plain
sawdust sacks each.  I am letting the grains play the role of supplement.

The first that I have started are: GE2, UK8, 4015, and AM1.

I am going to make the dishes for Hacendo (sp? ;0) this weekend, and
will likely put those strains to grains as well.

Take care,

JD


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Edited by Javadog (10/14/11 01:52 AM)

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: Javadog]
    #15224172 - 10/14/11 09:25 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

I wish you the best with your projects!

I plan on making 8-10 bags this weekend (With the A-10 strain) and then
I am more then likely going to have to refrigerate the other two bags
until next week when I make another 8-10. I plan to use a few different
ratios to see how supplementing through adding grain spawn works for each
culture. Prolly do a few each with 750ML,500ML,350ML, 350ML.

I will keep posted in another thread with my results:thumbup:

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15285226 - 10/27/11 09:43 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

most sites say you can preseal the .2 micron bags as long as all the air is out before PC'ing.  Any reason you go this route instead of presealing?


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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: dtowntoker]
    #15285250 - 10/27/11 09:48 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Before last week I did not have a proper impulse sealer that could seal
bags was the main reason.

I will still continue with the tyvek sleeve method seeing as I have 25+
pairs of them, and it is working out very well so far. I have heard of many
people that have ok results with sealing .2 micron bags, but personally
when the manufacturer says not to preseal the bags I just tend to listen.

I do plan on playing with pre-sealing some 5 micron bags in the future tho.

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15285293 - 10/27/11 10:02 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Don't always believe what you read.  .2 micron bags CAN be pre-sealed and yes, you do have to remove all the air before PC'ing. 

Compared to the tyvek-wrist sleeve/open bag method, pre-sealing bags before sterilizing is a huge PITA.

No need to pre-seal bags unless you don't have a flowhood.  When no flowhood was available for research, pre-sealing .2 micron filter-patched bags was the road traveled to sterilize them, inoculating the bags using LC.

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: Doctor_Inoc]
    #15285320 - 10/27/11 10:09 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

No flowhood or impulse sealer.  I was reading the other day that someone used printer paper and an iron to pre-seal.  Once the bags are sealed can you push air out?


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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: dtowntoker]
    #15285356 - 10/27/11 10:18 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

No flowjood or impulse sealer.  I was reading the other day that someone used printer paper and an iron to pre-seal.  Once the bags are sealed can you push air out?




Noooooooot exactly.  Push the air out before sealing.

Used to research with an impulse sealer.  Bags were filled then folded over.  This is where all the air became removed from the bags.  When the bags were folded over, would stick the ends of the bags in the sealer, seal it once, then, gave them an extra seal for security.

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: Doctor_Inoc]
    #15285365 - 10/27/11 10:21 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Doctor_Inoc said:
Don't always believe what you read.  .2 micron bags CAN be pre-sealed and yes, you do have to remove all the air before PC'ing. 





I try not to, that is the reason I added to my post above that I have heard
a few members who have had success sealing the .2 micron bags.  I have no
experience myself, but thanks for enlightening people in this thread, I
am sure it will help a lot of people out brother :thumbup:

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15285613 - 10/27/11 11:26 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

i have absolutely no experience with the filter patch bags as of yet.  i have some large bags on the way(18" high x 8" wide x 5" deep) with the "B" filter aka .5 micron.  i plan to seal before PCing bc i have a very limited budget atm, and with that said i am a LONG way away from saving up for my diy laminar flow hood.  i also plan to use some red RTV like some ppl do for jars as a self-healing inoc. port.  because of my limited budget im gonna go with MS inoc for now. 

Anybody have any exp with the RTV on filter patch bags?  i was planning on just applying it to one side of the bags but what do you guys/gals think?


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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: IamYou]
    #15285789 - 10/27/11 12:07 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I am pretty sure the B filters are 5 micron, not .5 just FYI.

I have no experience personally with applying RTV to bags, but I have heard
some people have issues getting the RTV to stay adhered to the bags after
curing. People mention that scuffing up the bag a bit with some sandpaper
so it scratches the surface of the bag helps the RTV adhere.

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15285925 - 10/27/11 12:41 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I should receive my PC tomorrow, I plan on using your Tek on preparing Grain Jars :awesomenod: Wish me luck :awethumb:

Thank you for posting this write up. It came just in time for me.


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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: DynGBreeD]
    #15285978 - 10/27/11 12:51 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Let us know how it goes:thumbup: Good luck!

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15285992 - 10/27/11 12:53 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Will do, gonna try my first go at WBS with Xapuri :thumbup: (correct me if I spelled that wrong)


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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: DynGBreeD]
    #15286018 - 10/27/11 12:58 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Do note that their will be slight differences between preparing different
types of grain. I would suggest looking over some more specific teks in
regards to preparing WBS before moving ahead with your plans.

You will notice WBS tends to be a bit dirtier and will need to be rinsed
off better then most other grains. As well if the WBS mixture has cracked
corn in it IMO it will make your WBS grain jars very mushy and moist.

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15286025 - 10/27/11 01:00 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

pre-sealable.5 micron filter patch bags

i would be worried about small spores coming in through a 5 micron hole.


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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15286038 - 10/27/11 01:03 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

EvilMushroom666 said:
Do note that their will be slight differences between preparing different
types of grain. I would suggest looking over some more specific teks in
regards to preparing WBS before moving ahead with your plans.

You will notice WBS tends to be a bit dirtier and will need to be rinsed
off better then most other grains. As well if the WBS mixture has cracked
corn in it IMO it will make your WBS grain jars very mushy and moist.




Understandable, I have still been reading up on it to make sure I bring them to capacity properly and clean them.


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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: IamYou]
    #15286074 - 10/27/11 01:09 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

IamYou said:
pre-sealable.5 micron filter patch bags

i would be worried about small spores coming in through a 5 micron hole.




I know they do in fact have .5 micron bags, but here is the link to the
manufacturer that most vendors get their bags from. As you can see the B
filter patch is rated at 5 micron, not .5.

http://unicornbags.com/store/product_info.php/cPath/26/products_id/33/osCsid/ab718e00c197e9a09792a925c0b53b19

Perhaps that is a typo on their part. I know the 14A filter patch bags
are rated at .5 micron

http://unicornbags.com/store/product_info.php/cPath/26/products_id/32

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15286092 - 10/27/11 01:12 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I... just... came... :awetongue:

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: Icesyn]
    #15286346 - 10/27/11 02:07 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for the writeup! Very helpful, especially the drying of the grains, I always end up making a big mess, then the wife gets PO'd :wink:
Thank you!
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15286389 - 10/27/11 02:15 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

EvilMushroom666 said:
Quote:

IamYou said:
pre-sealable.5 micron filter patch bags

i would be worried about small spores coming in through a 5 micron hole.




I know they do in fact have .5 micron bags, but here is the link to the
manufacturer that most vendors get their bags from. As you can see the B
filter patch is rated at 5 micron, not .5.

http://unicornbags.com/store/product_info.php/cPath/26/products_id/33/osCsid/ab718e00c197e9a09792a925c0b53b19

Perhaps that is a typo on their part. I know the 14A filter patch bags
are rated at .5 micron

http://unicornbags.com/store/product_info.php/cPath/26/products_id/32




hmm... i hope thats not the case.  well, the bags you linked were  8" X 4.8" X 19" and the vendor i am goin thru advertises 8" x 5" x 18".  which is really close to the same thing and im hoping that this filter is actually a 0.5 instead of 5 micron. 

i think generally cube spores are around 15-25 microns???  something like that maybe?  but just in case those bags do have a 5 micron filter, would you feel comfortable about those keeping out most contams?  they will have rye in them fyi.


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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: IamYou]
    #15286587 - 10/27/11 02:52 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Search the forums for more information on the 5 micron filters. Roger Rabbit
hates them and says that when he uses them for grain or sawdust blocks
a spotch of trichoderma usually develops right below the filter patch.

I have used the 5 micron bags for supplemented sawdust blocks in the past
without issues, but notice I have used may be 5 for shiitake blocks, RR
makes around 20 per day if not more...so you can see how he would have a
better look at the probability of things happening.

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15287004 - 10/27/11 04:16 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

right on, hopefully he might run across this thread and chime in if he knows if these bags are the 5 micron POS's or not...

sorry for being off topic but gratz on not smokin anymore :wink:  i managed to quit smokin myself.  its been about 3 months for me i think.


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Edited by IamYou (10/27/11 04:19 PM)

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: IamYou]
    #15287056 - 10/27/11 04:27 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

A little micropore over the filter would help that, no?


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OfflineIamYou
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: dtowntoker]
    #15287155 - 10/27/11 04:49 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

hmm.. do you know what kind of rating micropore tape has?


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InvisibleDoctor_Inoc
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: IamYou]
    #15288457 - 10/27/11 09:17 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

IamYou said:
Anybody have any exp with the RTV on filter patch bags?  i was planning on just applying it to one side of the bags but what do you guys/gals think?



As Evil said, scuff the surface of where the injection port is to be placed with a piece of sand-paper.  The grooves that the sand-paper create causes the RTV to adhere good. 

Used to install RTV injection ports to the backs (opposite side of the filter-patch) of bags before loading them, allowing 24 hours for the RTV to dry and set before PC'ing.

RTV injection ports for spawn bags are a good idea when you're inoculating with a syringe solution and no flowhood.  Just flame sterilize the needle, inject through port, and inoculate.

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: IamYou]
    #15290827 - 10/28/11 12:48 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

IamYou said:
sorry for being off topic but gratz on not smokin anymore :wink:  i managed to quit smokin myself.  its been about 3 months for me i think.




Its the best thing you can do for your health I tell yah. Here is a good
tool to stay motivated:

http://www.endthehabit.com/content/calculator.htm

Quote:

I have now stopped smoking for 1 year, 4 months, 3 weeks, 3 days, 5 hours, 47 minutes, 3 seconds. That translates into 12,856 cigarettes NOT smoked, for a savings of $4,885.29! At 5 minutes per cigarette I have increased my life expectancy by 1 month, 2 weeks, 2 days, 15 hours, 20 minutes, 7 seconds.



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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15476117 - 12/06/11 05:50 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

:bump:

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15477334 - 12/06/11 09:38 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Gotta love it...
Got a little somethin' extra in store for ya EM :wink:


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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #15670495 - 01/15/12 04:31 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

:bump:

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15812774 - 02/15/12 09:57 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

:bubbles:

After answering a few grain spawn questions today I figured this may
serve some good back on the front page.

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15822621 - 02/17/12 09:22 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

i followed this tek for my first real attempt at grain.(i made 2 half ass attempts with no instruction and failed) thank you EM666 for the great tek!
908g wet(1/2 of first flush)








golden teacher multispore 1 to 2 spawn to sub/ratio

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: billy]
    #15824461 - 02/17/12 05:56 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Stellar work brother, thank you for sharing your success with us all!

Some beautiful fruits you have there.

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15996914 - 03/25/12 11:50 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Another way of injection ports on bags, what I use is cheap waterproof band aids.  Place that on the bag before you pc.  You can shoot through the center of the bandaid and it basically self heals.  Been using it for years in tissue culture as an injection port for binary media.  You can pick up some up at the dollar store. The waterproof ones will survive the autoclave a few times.


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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #17252422 - 11/20/12 12:50 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Just wanted to thank you for the Tek. 

I just finished doing my first batch of jars for Shiitake and Oysters, and it looks real good.




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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: afungi]
    #17253455 - 11/20/12 04:06 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Looks good, wish you good luck with your grow!

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #19821557 - 04/10/14 12:36 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Hello i have several questions

Why to seal the bag with the tyvek sleeve method if you are going to open the bag again to put the wire?

Is it because you have to inflate the bag with air then seal it with the wire? and if so why not to inflate and seal the bag with the wire from the beginning before sterilization?

Or he did the Tyvek Sleeve method because he was going to inoculate the bag later with G2G transfer?

If I'm  going to inoculate a bag with spore solution, Am i going to still have to do the tyvek sleeve method? Or just seal the bag from the beginning and leave the air space and sterilize..?


Edited by Mr. Alien (04/10/14 12:59 AM)

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: Mr. Alien]
    #19832268 - 04/12/14 11:23 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

If you're really worried about contamination, leave the bag sealed and go about inoculation a different way. This tek is done in front of a flow hood, and not as risky as open air or a makeshift glove box.

Most people I've seen use the tyvec sleeve in the bag so they can inoculate with G2G transfer. Spores to grain bags is totally something you can do though.


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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: Masticore]
    #19832606 - 04/12/14 12:37 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for the reply

If i leave air in the bag and seal and then sterilize, the high pressure in the sterilization process would take out the air from the bag through the filter?

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #22653260 - 12/14/15 09:29 AM (8 years, 3 months ago)

evilmushroom666 your tutorials are always clear and concise!

Thank you.

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: homerj]
    #22706883 - 12/27/15 07:11 PM (8 years, 2 months ago)

Glad I could help!

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #26049049 - 06/12/19 08:54 PM (4 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for all of the great info!! Exactly what I was looking for. Bookmarked!

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #27116562 - 12/30/20 03:29 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Noob here, could you explain the purpose of allowing the 10 minutes of venting before applying your rocker? Much appreciated :smile:)

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: JosephStylin]
    #27116571 - 12/30/20 03:32 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JosephStylin said:
Noob here, could you explain the purpose of allowing the 10 minutes of venting before applying your rocker? Much appreciated :smile:)




This allows for all air to be vented from the PC so only steam and the items you want sterilized remain inside. It allows for even Temps throughout. Without venting there will be uneven Temps which can cause problems

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: tiptrippy]
    #27144183 - 01/12/21 04:34 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Noob here, hoping someone can provide a bit of enlightenment.

I'm trying to understand the purpose of using tyvek sleeves. Are they simply a spacer to prevent the grow bag from sealing shut while in the PC?

I read elsewhere that high-density polyethylene (tyvek) is not autoclavable, but DuPont's website indicates that i's melting point is 135 C indicating that it should be fine in the PC. Has anyone had issues melting their tyvek?

I can't find tyvek sleeves for purchase at the moment. I'm thinking of using a different material to prevent sealing, such as a layer of Tuck Tape (doubled back on itself to make a non-adhesive sheet). This tape is made of Polypropelyne and acrylic, both of which have higher melting points than tyvek. However I'm not sure if the tyvek is better for other properties such as breathability, contam resistant, etc. Thoughts?

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OfflineApplesauce3D
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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #27293282 - 05/04/21 02:43 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Solid and useful information thanks mate!

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Re: How EvilMushroom666 Prepares Grain Spawn (Jars & Bags) [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #28626481 - 01/18/24 08:55 PM (1 month, 29 days ago)

Thanks for the post highly informative.

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