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InvisibleBrainstem
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" Taking psychedelics is a form of self harm..."
    #15156488 - 09/30/11 05:03 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Is this statement true ?
  If so can anyone explain the reasons why ?
  Are there scenarios where this is not the case ?


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The arrogant cat stalks the humble mouse, the self important dog chases away the cat and is in turn unable to stand it's ground against the Proud lion. Then the lion is almost trampled underfoot of the enlightened elephant, who surprisingly and paradoxically yields to the humble mouse.


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: " Taking psychedelics is a form of self harm..." [Re: Brainstem]
    #15156524 - 09/30/11 05:31 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Define "harm". They can be sometimes, definitely not all the time.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: " Taking psychedelics is a form of self harm..." [Re: Brainstem] * 1
    #15156570 - 09/30/11 06:20 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

i think it depends on what you mean by 'self' :strokebeard:


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: " Taking psychedelics is a form of self harm..." [Re: quinn]
    #15156575 - 09/30/11 06:26 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Indeed, and once we get to the root of those two words, we then need to make a definition for psychedelic, as there are many with different effects that may not fit under our definitions of self or harm. :strokebeard:


Edited by PatrickKn (09/30/11 06:26 AM)


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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Re: " Taking psychedelics is a form of self harm..." [Re: PatrickKn]
    #15156576 - 09/30/11 06:30 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Is this statement true ?

Alcohol is self harm and people drink it much more often than they take psychedelics. As far as I'm concerned " Taking psychedelics is a form of self harm..." is nothing more than propaganda/a scare tactic.

If so can anyone explain the reasons why ?

A bad trip could be psychologically harmful to certain individuals. I have heard some people say that they have learned the most from a bad trip. Personally I don't know, since I haven't had a bad trip yet. People committing suicides is also possible (although it is rare), so if you are going through a tough period in your life or are a noob it is recommended that you have a trip sitter. I personally took a high dose trip during a tough period in my life and didn't have a bad trip. I actually felt the trip changed my perspective for the better. So in my personal experiences, trips were the opposite of self harm.

Are there scenarios where this is not the case ?

Yes. Good trips. As far as we know most psychedelics do not leave any permanent damage to your body. An example would be LSD. Our body breaks it down really easily. We also have DMT, which is the strongest known psychedelic. It is also a naturally occurring neurotransmitter and is flowing through our blood at this moment.


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"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinecrkhd
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Re: " Taking psychedelics is a form of self harm..." [Re: dustinthewind13] * 1
    #15156664 - 09/30/11 07:31 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

I think it is and it isn't.

When I used to trip the only real reason in hindsight is because I was too much of a pussy to face my fears head on in sobriety. All under the guise of "recreation/soul-searching", which was true, and still the actual reason I tripped. But the subconscious reason was simply too pussy to face fear consciously. It's like being too pussy to jump off a cliff so instead you lock yourself alone in a dark barrel and roll down a mountain and then drop off the cliff.

Somehow the illusion of a trip and the amplification of fear to a visceral level made it feel more worth it. I knew what I was getting into every time and I would keep coming back for more.

I don't know if forcing yourself to face fear is self-harm or self-healing really.


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"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Re: " Taking psychedelics is a form of self harm..." [Re: crkhd]
    #15156730 - 09/30/11 08:14 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Wow. Facing fears on psychedelics seems too intense for me. I would stop taking them if that was all my trip was about. Thank good I never went through that. For me it was always blissful introspection. Fun and healing times of :peace: & :heart:.

:mushroom2::thumbup:


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleBrainstem
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Re: " Taking psychedelics is a form of self harm..." [Re: Brainstem]
    #15156922 - 09/30/11 10:04 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the input, I generally agree with your views or would consider the points raised when hearing this statement.  I'm not new to psychedelics, but I definitely have lots to learn so although I thought I had a good idea (in my own mind at least) what psychedelics were about, on hearing this it did raise doubts in my mind.

  I would first compare taking psychedelics with the first image to appear in my mind upon thinking of self harm. This would be causing intentional physical injury to one's person, or suicide.
Now to compare these things with drinking a nice cup of mushroom coffee and enjoying it's effects is laughable (IMHO). So I would wholly disagree on this comparison alone.

  I would then ponder if it was to do with a gradient of self harm, with the first consideration being at the summit. This would then lead me to compare psychedelics with other drugs that I would consider toxic, addictive or causing a disassociative or delusional perception. Cigarettes and alcohol are both toxic to the body, and so are poisons, yet they are commercially available, taxed and legal, though smoking is know discouraged and is considered anti-social. I would consider cigs & beer a mild form of self harm, or maybe just slight and prolonged. Still they could be viewed as a way to kill one's self slowly. :satansmoking:
 
  Next I would consider heroin with all of it's misgivings, and I don't doubt it is harmful or a form of self harm. Is there a healthy way to use heroin ? I don't know.
  Next would come cocaine, in both it's forms, also I would lump amphetamines and ecstasy in here and I fear this is turning into Brainstem drug classification post. That is not my intention, I am just trying figure out if there are degrees to self harm.

  Maybe it lies in the disassociative properties of psychedelics, sometimes radically altering a persons view of reality and putting them in danger that way. I have had one experience when I was 17 where I drank half a bottle of whiskey in half an hour, and blacked out, I woke up at home in bed the next morning with no memory of leaving the party I was at, or how I got home. This has never happened to me on any of the psychedelics I have used (lsd, mushrooms, salvia and dmt).
 
  I had a heavy lsd trip at the age of 16, I had been taking it quite regularly for 2-3months, and I found it radically different to other drugs I had tried at the time. It was always different with lsd, but the one consistency was the laughter, oh how my jaw would ache the next day. This time I took it, I had broken my ankle 2weeks before and on the day of the trip had cut my cast off. I was also dodging someone I owed £20 to for weed. It think it was a combination of these two things that caused an escalation of anxiety, 3hours in I felt like my ankle had turned to mush and I thought I could feel the bones moshing up against each other. I also had gone from trying to dodge the weed dealer fearing a warning slap to thinking he was going to kill me. :rolleyes:

  This is the only bad/intense/scary experience I have had on psychedelics, and I can understand the risk of anxiety and depression being amplified in these states. There are many things to consider, such as set and setting, intention, mood, mental state and dose.
 
  Could it be to do with responsibility ? An approach that tries to ensure an appropriate dose, a comfortable setting and some form of damage limitation should the trip take a heavy turn.

Love it quinn "i think it depends on what you mean by 'self' :strokebeard:"


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