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OfflineNotwoodyallen
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Registered: 09/14/11
Posts: 291
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: Icelander]
    #15129230 - 09/24/11 08:07 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
:lol:



It's nice in theory, in an ideal world where we arn't a fat, sad, stupid country. Democracy is overrated.


--------------------
All the other kids with the pumped up kicks
You'd better run, better run, outrun my gun

take drugs seriously
say no to :guns:
dealing isn't a game guns shouldn't be a part--- PSA

also, the forum index symbole is the above the influence symbol. what up with that?

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: Notwoodyallen]
    #15129446 - 09/24/11 09:02 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Humanity is overrated.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: Icelander]
    #15129472 - 09/24/11 09:08 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Humanity is overrated.




In your case I definitely agree.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

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Invisiblemushiepussy
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Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 1,198
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Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: Notwoodyallen]
    #15129473 - 09/24/11 09:09 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free.. it expects what never was, and never will be". -Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #15129582 - 09/24/11 09:39 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Humanity is overrated.




In your case I definitely agree.





Yeah well I'm pretty impressed by you too so the feeling is definitely mutual.

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InvisibleBrainstem
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Registered: 07/31/10
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Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: teknix]
    #15130674 - 09/25/11 04:32 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Teknix, the following is a post a made on my facebook at the beginning of August, just as the riots flared up here in the UK.

How bad would it have to get for the people that are now condemning the looters to take to the streets in legitimate protest ? I think the kind of government we have is out dated, a product of a time when communication was so bad that areas needed a representative at the seat of power. Now we have the inter-web the same people that give up their voice to an mp by voting for them, could all be responsible for their own governance. An E~ Parliament, with people debating and voting on laws and policies. It would remove a good few layers off the top of the British political pyramid and make Britain a true democracy, and wouldn't tens of millions voting on issues be more proportionate than hundreds voting on them. Does that sound like a mad idea ? Worked for the X-factor.

' For every man who wants to rule the world, there'll be a man who just wants to be free.'

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Invisibleteknix
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Registered: 09/16/08
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Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: Brainstem]
    #27576827 - 12/11/21 01:51 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

I wrote this when bitcoin and the blockchain was a small fry. The way the blockchain has evolved over the years have created a way to tally votes transparently over a blockchain that each person could personally verify that their vote was tallied correctly using a random sequence of seemingly random characters.

The money printing is out of hand, the government is a huge waste of expenditures, continuing the debt cycle by increasing the debt limit, rather than paying it down. Our government has proven itself to be inefficient at the very least.

One thing I have been thinking about lately, that would be a start, rather than a complete change is to take some power back from congress. Congress needs rules and restrictions put on them, but they make the laws, and seldom do they make laws to limit their own powers. One way to do that would be to simply disallow trading stocks while in office.

Congress has long used their position for monetary gain generally over ethical morals and values. Congress makes the laws which everyone is expected to adhere to however they rarely make laws that limit their own powers. The government has become more powerful by slowly taking the power from the people. It is time we start taking our power back, starting with eliminating stock trading for sitting congressional members and their families, so that we do not rely on on their honesty, but rather laws that would prevent any sitting member of congress from using their influence directly for monetary gain.

If there was not as much incentive for monetary gain from the congressional positions, the officials would be more likely to base their decisions more on the merit of a proposition, rather than any possible monetary gain. The same goes for the rest of the officials privy to information ahead of the masses. However, if congress was limited first and foremost, they would be more apt to limit others from using their political positions from unethical monetary gains.

I made this into a petition, it could probably be written better, and if someone could write one better post it and i'll sign it, but if you agree then sign it!

https://chng.it/zdZt89LBL2

Furthermore, we need a way for people to make laws rather than relying on congress, especially for the laws to regulate and restrict congress.

Having representatives isn't a bad idea, but laws and their creation (or the repealing of them) shouldn't be exclusive to representatives, nor should it be exclusive to congress. If the vast majority of citizens agree on something, then who is congress to stand in the way of it becomming a rule or repealed?

Our system of government just seems extremely ineeficient, even though I do believe that the citizens should have inalienable rights, and should all have a say in our countries governance, but how can we do it more efficiently then our current system, with it loopholes, innacuracies, and possibilities for dishonesty and corruption?

If say 70% of the population wanted something changed, it should be as simple as casting a vote recorded on the blockchain, and then enacted in law once it passed the checks and balances (integrity) of the votes. If  70% of the population all took time out of their day to submit a vote over a blockchain (psuedo-anonymously), and that proposition became law, then we would truly have a democracy.

The same with voting for a president, or a representative.

To eliminate corruption you can't rely on honesty and morals, you have to remove the possibility of it all together!

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: teknix]
    #27576832 - 12/11/21 01:54 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Imagine a government wallet that records all transactions publically, from the office of the treasury to the wallet of the contractor. All transparent.

Imagine the people having the ability to counter congress.

Imagine the increase in efficiency of the IRS and even in accounting, if all corporations and their officials were required to use a blockchain for transactions, in pure transparency.

Imagine your vote actually mattering.

Edited by teknix (12/11/21 02:22 AM)

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: teknix] * 1
    #27577041 - 12/11/21 08:25 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Why imagine such nonsense?
If we want nonsense, Alice in Wonderland, fairy tales, and Limericks are better.
Nonsense such as you propose only leads to muddled thinking and disappointment.

For a vote to matter there would have to be something worth voting for, and honest politicians, an oxymoron. And just as President Bush's idea of exporting democracy , to countries that never had it, and had uneducated populaces, was baloney - the same pretty much applies to the USA. Only blind patriotism could hide this fact. Sad, but I think its better to confront truth, ... you know the red pill vs Santa Claus.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,847
Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: teknix]
    #27577081 - 12/11/21 09:06 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Imagine a government wallet that records all transactions publically, from the office of the treasury to the wallet of the contractor. All transparent.

Imagine the people having the ability to counter congress.

Imagine the increase in efficiency of the IRS and even in accounting, if all corporations and their officials were required to use a blockchain for transactions, in pure transparency.

Imagine your vote actually mattering.



I do imagine this, with all web transactions going through a rights broker that simultaneously evaluates the rights to access and the rights to create content as well as the truthiness of the content.

the broker has to be an AI that can explain every decision, and whose code can only be changed by democratic process.

yeah, I think about that kind of thing, so?
we'll probably get there when there is no other place to go.
honesty is the best policy


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Registered: 06/01/13
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Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27581898 - 12/15/21 03:44 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

That people should be honoured among the masses for their merit..

Smarter thoughts give more societal award and all effort should pay off in society as equal to the energy output of the man-unit and get that much input as a type of currency.. as reward for utils of energy spent.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27581957 - 12/15/21 05:15 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

I am still reading that true democracy is not merit based, nor popularity based, but based upon lottery of qualified people to do public work.

in "the dawn of everything"


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27582207 - 12/15/21 09:32 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)



Of course she says "no", but is saying "it's a free market" an apt reason?

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: teknix]
    #27582272 - 12/15/21 10:12 AM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:


Of course she says "no", but is saying "it's a free market" an apt reason?



Possibly there is no formal Rule Book for Integrity Among Legislators.
In this iteration, we have a combination of Theatrics and Gladiators - politicians governing and performing their entertaining crafts in self-perpetuity, meanwhile stumbling from one war into the next, and occasionally making things worse.

If you cannot solve a problem - change the subject, either the problem will peter out or someone else will solve it, that's why we have the scope dance - similar to gerrymandering, but applied mid-crisis to the boundaries of impunity.

Many items of interest, these days, are manipulations and distracting propaganda pursuant to the next huge profit grab,  Covid is a huge issue and cornucopia of distracting propaganda's at the same time. More news as soon as the back room deals are done and they decide what to call it.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Registered: 05/21/20
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Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27587725 - 12/19/21 08:01 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Algorithms can calculate optimal tax rates for maximum systemic wealth and prosperity, and all manner of other laws, et cetera.

But so far as literal democracy, it would take one whopping revolution to get rid of all of the political parasites, corporate & special interest racketeers, and others who profit from the current system.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #27587741 - 12/19/21 08:17 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

a new system could evolve out of this and not grandfather the useless waste forward.

it may be as low level as access rights and personal information protection on the web which extends into voting for issues, personal aptitude fulfillment, jobs, government, hospitals, army, manufacturing, universities etc.

the lobbyists may have no lobby to hang out in.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27589842 - 12/21/21 06:44 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

The purpose of any government is to provide for the people.. services, intelligence, goods supporting the utility function of units (individuals)

We need emergency support.. which can come from governments or corporations.. or even cooperatives.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27589878 - 12/21/21 07:11 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

that's interesting - equating corporations with governments.
corporations are about profit.

government is not a business, it is about operations that support people and families beyond the walls of the home in a district. corporations have no such mandate.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27590107 - 12/21/21 11:22 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Pay the corporations to do the same things governments do?

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Invisibler3volution.gurl
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Registered: 10/20/21
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Re: Solution to Big Government [Re: teknix]
    #27591268 - 12/22/21 09:58 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

I completely agree with your OP. I'd personally prefer a board of experts to replace all Government instead of Presidents and anything relating to politics. It's old and needs to die, literally and figuratively. We need the best of the best in academics(Scientists, Doctors, Journalists<real ones> etc.) conveying our global and local issues to us and like you said with our technology it is no issue to vote through that as often as needed/wanted.

After all, where I live we do plenty of government related shit on our devices like renewing licenses, covid related bs etc.

There is no logical excuse to keep using paper to vote, let alone vote once every four years.

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