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Anonymous

Politicians who support the Right to Carry law
    #1511159 - 05/01/03 01:20 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

has anyone heard of this law? who is in support of it?


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Politicians who support the Right to Carry law [Re: ]
    #1511206 - 05/01/03 01:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

My question is why do we need another law to tell us we can carry a gun when it is plainly written in the US constitution.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: Politicians who support the Right to Carry law [Re: z@z.com]
    #1511221 - 05/01/03 01:45 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think it specifies that you can carry, just that you have the right to own. Big difference.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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Anonymous

Re: Politicians who support the Right to Carry law [Re: z@z.com]
    #1511224 - 05/01/03 01:45 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

word.

and this law is intended to allow off-duty or retired police to carry concealed weapons. why we need to have a law for this is beyond me. the fact that here in america, there are places where not even off-duty police officers are permitted to carry weapons is a sad sign.

i found this list of names i was looking for.


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Anonymous

Re: Politicians who support the Right to Carry law [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1511233 - 05/01/03 01:47 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

"...keep and bear arms..."


Edited by Anonymous (05/01/03 01:49 PM)


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: Politicians who support the Right to Carry law [Re: ]
    #1511359 - 05/01/03 02:34 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Heh, yeah, I'm retarded. But I still don't agree with concealed weapons and I don't really feel like debating about it. IMHO you do not have the right to carry a concealed weapon. Nothing will convince me otherwise. I do not care if you are a retired policeman or not, off duty is one thing, but retired? Nope. The absence of firearm regulation is idiocy.


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Politicians who support the Right to Carry law [Re: ]
    #1511365 - 05/01/03 02:36 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not sure your political stance, but are you for a literal intrepretation of the constitution? Not knocking you at all, thats your stance, and your welcome to it.

But I think that rationally, its obvious why every person on the street should not be walking around with a pistol on their hip. And there are reasons minor's dont need guns. And reasons violent felons should not have access to a firearm. Do you disagree?


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Politicians who support the Right to Carry law [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1511369 - 05/01/03 02:37 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

"The absence of firearm regulation is idiocy. "

Your much more articulate than me.... :cool:


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Politicians who support the Right to Carry law [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1511374 - 05/01/03 02:38 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

It wouldn't bother me one bit if almost everyone on the street had a gun. I don't think minors and felons should be able to carry guns around though.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: Politicians who support the Right to Carry law [Re: z@z.com]
    #1511379 - 05/01/03 02:41 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, that's the answer. More guns.


--------------------
"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Politicians who support the Right to Carry law [Re: z@z.com]
    #1511385 - 05/01/03 02:43 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I think psychiatrists should carry guns. Not so much for their own defense, but for ours. They're on the front lines of this crazy society we live in, and there's some mental problems that prozac and therapy just can't cure like a .44 magnum placed at the base of the skull can.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Politicians who support the Right to Carry law [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1511488 - 05/01/03 03:36 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I feel safer when I know that many law abiding citizens are armed. I think that more armed citizens would drastically lower our crime rate. If a thief or mugger thinks that they are likely to be shot would that not be a deterrent?


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Anonymous

Re: Politicians who support the Right to Carry law [Re: z@z.com]
    #1511523 - 05/01/03 03:47 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

according most statistics, yes it is.


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Politicians who support the Right to Carry law [Re: ]
    #1511540 - 05/01/03 03:52 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Where I used to live it was fairly common to see people with a visible handgun on them and even more common to spot a telltale bulge under someones shirt. There was virtually no crime excluding victimless crimes.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: Politicians who support the Right to Carry law [Re: z@z.com]
    #1511639 - 05/01/03 04:28 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

That may be. A store around the corner of an apt. I used to live in was robbed, despite the fact that the owner was well known for displaying his sidearm. My experience, however, holds no more water than yours.


--------------------
"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Re: Politicians who support the Right to Carry law [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1511648 - 05/01/03 04:31 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

That is true. It was just an observation.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: Politicians who support the Right to Carry law [Re: z@z.com]
    #1511672 - 05/01/03 04:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Now while I do not think you have the right to carry a concealed weapon, you may certainly have the privilage. Big difference. :wink: This issue came up this year for review in our state, specifically it concerned the ban on carrying concealed weapons into establishments which served alcoho. Thank goodness it did not pass.l


--------------------
"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Politicians who support the Right to Carry law [Re: ]
    #1511719 - 05/01/03 05:01 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

has anyone heard of this law? who is in support of it?




I'm all for it. I got busted recently for carrying law.

Sorry, bad joke. No rimshots needed.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Politicians who support the Right to Carry law [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1511747 - 05/01/03 05:12 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The absence of firearm regulation is idiocy.



Are you aware there are between 15 - 20,000 firearms laws on the books both federal and state?

That's what you consider absence of regulation? HOLY CRAP!

And it's well documented that the states with the most liberal concealed carry laws have the lowesr crime rate. As a matter of fact, I read an article on that subject just today. I'll go get it.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (05/01/03 05:15 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Politicians who support the Right to Carry law [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1511760 - 05/01/03 05:16 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Democrats Link Gun Rights to Terrorism
Jeff Johnson, CNSNews.com
Thursday, May 1, 2003
WASHINGTON ? Leading Democrat senators are tying their long-standing gun control agenda to homeland security and terrorism fears. Advocates of the Second Amendment compared the proposal to the actions of Adolf Hitler's regime in Nazi Germany.
Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., announced his plans Wednesday to introduce legislation he calls the "Homeland Security Gun Safety Act," along with fellow New Jersey Democrat Jon Corzine, Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., and Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I.

Lautenberg claimed the proposal would close "loopholes" in gun laws "that allow terrorists to access weapons and explosives inside our borders."

"As our government confiscates toenail scissors at airports, secures power plants, and increases domestic surveillance," Lautenberg said, "we're ignoring the most obvious threat that's out there, and that is the ease in [sic] which terrorists can access weapons in virtually any town across the country."

Under Lautenberg's proposal, any time the Homeland Security Threat Level rises to "elevated" or higher, law enforcement authorities would not be required to complete mandatory background checks on firearms purchasers within the current limit of three business days. Unlike current law, which mandates near-immediate destruction of records of background checks if the sale is approved, Lautenberg's proposal would allow authorities to maintain the registry of new gun owners "indefinitely."

The Homeland Security Threat Level has been at the "elevated" level - or higher - since it was created after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Supporters of Second Amendment protections for armed citizens warn that the proposal would allow law enforcement agencies to block all gun sales in their jurisdictions by simply refusing to complete background checks. They note that Lautenberg's plan to maintain a registry of gun owners sounds very familiar.

'Horrible'

"These are the very laws that were used by the Nazis to register everybody's guns, to confiscate the Jews' guns and then to commit genocide," said Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America. "Why the senator would want to do something as horrible as that, I can't understand."

Germany's "Law on Firearms and Ammunition" required all firearms to be registered with the federal government. Although the law was passed in 1928, prior to the Nazis coming to power, Hitler's regime used the registration lists to confiscate firearms belonging to Jews and suspected "sympathizers."

The bill would also impose nearly a dozen new restrictions on federally licensed firearms dealers, already the most heavily regulated industry in the U.S. The legislation would:



Allow unlimited, unannounced inspections of gun dealers by federal agents. Because of past abuses, federal authorities are currently limited to one unannounced inspection a year. Inspections by local authorities are not currently limited.

Create a federal felony charge against a gun dealer if a lost or stolen gun is recovered by authorities before the loss or theft is discovered and reported.

Revoke a gun dealer's license immediately upon conviction for any felony - even if the conviction is under review by a higher court or being appealed.

Suspend a gun dealer's license if, before the dealer files a report, authorities discover a gun that has allegedly been "missing" from inventory.

Suspend a gun dealer's license immediately upon being charged with any crime. Under current law, gun dealers are allowed to keep their licenses until and unless the government can prove its charges against them in court.
Lautenberg claims the changes will also reduce criminal violence.

"This bill will not affect the vast majority of honest, law-abiding Americans who want to purchase guns," he said. "The bill focuses on preventing weapons from getting into the hands of terrorists and criminals."

But Pratt noted that regulating legal purchases of firearms by law-abiding citizens has no positive impact on crime.

"And we know that there's no way it ever will because the English have a gun ban on an island, and all they got for their trouble is more crime with guns," Pratt noted. "The senator is absolutely wrong. He's lost the argument."

Didn't Work in D.C.

Closer to home, Pratt's organization notes that the District of Columbia enacted one of the strictest gun control laws in the nation in 1976. Since that time, the murder rate has dropped by 2 percent nationwide, while D.C.'s murder rate has increased by 134 percent.

Supporters of gun control blame easy access to firearms in Virginia for the crime in the nation's capital. But Pratt pointed out that Arlington County, just across the Potomac River from Washington, had a murder rate of 2.1 per 100,000 in 1999, compared to a murder rate of 46.1 per 100,000 in the District of Columbia.

Even including all of the Virginia suburbs outside Washington brings the Virginia murder rate up to only 6.1 per 100,000.

'Gun Availability Changed This Person Into a Criminal'

Nonetheless, Lautenberg still believes that the source of the problem is the availability of guns, not the violent intentions of those who use them criminally.

"We've had so many experiences where a criminal act suddenly erupted in a moment of outrage with a perfectly well-behaving citizen," Lautenberg charged. "The fact is that the gun availability changed this person into a criminal."

Pratt wondered aloud if Lautenberg were not voicing subconscious concerns about himself.

"He may be the kind of person that would go nuts with a gun," Pratt charged, "but most sane people have control of themselves, unlike the senator, who apparently has no self-control.

"Normal people have no problem carrying a gun, bearing insults, suffering someone cutting them off in traffic and going on," Pratt added, "never pulling their gun."

Research Disputes Lautenberg's Claim

According to research published in the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports between 1972 and 1995, firearms ownership increased by more than 100 percent, while the overall rate of murders and murders committed with guns remained fairly constant.

In a 1996 study, researchers at the University of Chicago discovered that, contrary to Lautenberg's claim, the possession of guns by law-abiding citizens actually reduced violent crime.

John Lott and David Mustard found that states with laws allowing citizens to carry concealed firearms reduced murders by nearly 9 percent, rapes by 5 percent, aggravated assaults by 7 percent and robbery by 3 percent.

If states without concealed-carry laws had adopted them in 1992, the pair estimated that approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, 60,000 aggravated assaults and more than 11,000 robberies would have been avoided annually.

Pratt pointed to those statistics and again questioned the motives behind Lautenberg's latest gun control bill.

"He and everybody else who supports that kind of legislation are just absolutely wrong," Pratt concluded. "There is no empirical basis for gun control, and the only reason you could be advocating it is because you must have the same objectives that the Nazis had."

Copyright CNSNews.com

The Link


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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