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Munchauzen



Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,348
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Urban Contaminated BRF Disposal Tek (deleted)
#15109661 - 09/20/11 10:26 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by Munchauzen (11/12/11 11:07 PM)
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asdfasdf


Registered: 07/26/10
Posts: 424
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: Contaminated Spawn Disposal Tek [Re: Munchauzen]
#15110071 - 09/21/11 12:25 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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How about PCing (or steaming if you have no PC), dumping, then cleaning? Why heat it the second time?
-------------------- "FlexXx said:
To answer some of your questions...If by "ms" you mean "magic shrooms" then yes that's what I'm trying to grow"
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morbiddoctor
Frilly fungal fruiter



Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 1,021
Loc: seattle, wa
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Re: Contaminated Spawn Disposal Tek [Re: asdfasdf]
#15110418 - 09/21/11 03:17 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've always dumped my sub or flung it out my window with a sharp arm jerk, cap them then submerged in bleach water until whenever, usually leave them about a day or so. Then wash with really hot water and dish soap.
I should probably be wearing a mask but I can hold my breath a While. Not That that prevents any spores from landing on my person. I've had trich issues off and on but never had an issue reusing a jar after this.
-------------------- Trade list Updated 12/20/15
Ranco temperature controller and Wagner steamer for pasteurization in trade list!
I'm looking for eyecatching, colorful, unique and interesting fungi. Not limited to edible or medicinal. Print them when you're on foray and pm me please!
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Munchauzen



Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,348
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Re: Contaminated Spawn Disposal Tek [Re: asdfasdf]
#15110421 - 09/21/11 03:20 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
asdfasdf said: How about PCing (or steaming if you have no PC), dumping, then cleaning? Why heat it the second time?
there is no second time? it only gets heat once, when I boiled them at the end. sterilize with bleach->dump->boil
its just my logic that the safest and most powerful tool for sterility should be the very last step, not the first.
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JaffyJaffar
Nom Nom Nom



Registered: 07/26/11
Posts: 1,700
Loc: AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Contaminated Spawn Disposal Tek [Re: Munchauzen]
#15110550 - 09/21/11 05:33 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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i like but for extra measure (if i get contams) will probably boil the shit out of the jar 1st then do your bleach water tek - extra measure
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asdfasdf


Registered: 07/26/10
Posts: 424
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: Contaminated Spawn Disposal Tek [Re: Munchauzen]
#15112236 - 09/21/11 02:21 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Munchauzen said:
Quote:
asdfasdf said: How about PCing (or steaming if you have no PC), dumping, then cleaning? Why heat it the second time?
there is no second time? it only gets heat once, when I boiled them at the end. sterilize with bleach->dump->boil
its just my logic that the safest and most powerful tool for sterility should be the very last step, not the first.
Oh whoops I was thinking of your old method when I said that.
Really? I completely disagree. You want it as sterile as possible BEFORE you open it, not after. Your going to sterilize them again anyway the next time you use them.
Why kill some stuff, open the jar, then make sure everything is dead?
-------------------- "FlexXx said:
To answer some of your questions...If by "ms" you mean "magic shrooms" then yes that's what I'm trying to grow"
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Mr. Anderson
πριν από το χρόνο κάποιου


Registered: 09/05/10
Posts: 2,677
Loc: Torn between the roots of...
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mRe: Contaminated Spawn Disposal Tek [Re: asdfasdf]
#15112255 - 09/21/11 02:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't make contaminated jars lol
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Disclaimer: All posts are completely fictional and or for educational purposes only.
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dontkillthedj
lurker



Registered: 08/04/11
Posts: 295
Loc: no-mans-land, US
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
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Re: Contaminated BRF Disposal Tek [Re: Munchauzen]
#15112316 - 09/21/11 02:39 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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lol it seems like every tome i see a problem in my grow, i see a fresh post for it on shroomery.
i like it, gonna go get rid of my trich jar now.
-------------------- You mess with the shark young man, you get the shark!
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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i just pressure cook contamd jars.
and open them outdoors
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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Munchauzen



Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,348
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Re: Contaminated Spawn Disposal Tek [Re: asdfasdf]
#15112485 - 09/21/11 03:11 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
You want it as sterile as possible BEFORE you open it, not after. Your going to sterilize them again anyway the next time you use them.
1 part bleach per 100 parts water will release plenty of peroxide and sodium hypochlorite onto its foes, thoroughly sterilizing (it makes them pop like balloons, clump up together, and die) - I recommend dish gloves. I like to boil to clean residuals from the bleach 100%, and anything else left in there. Might be overkill, but hey I'm slightly OCD.
As for the jars, they were all nocced with a purchased albino a+ syringe. All four jars contam'd on every single injection point. I believe I was given a contaminated syringe. Not a single A+ albino did not contam, and the other B+ and PE uncut jars I have are colonizing very nicely right now, and not a single one of those contam'd!
Also, I live in a big apartment complex, surrounded by other apartment complexes. I can't dispose of anything outside. Would be way too shady...
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maug


Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 1,703
Loc: inside you
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Re: Contaminated BRF Disposal Tek [Re: k00laid]
#15112513 - 09/21/11 03:16 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I do something similar to the op. I soak in soapy water, in a bucket. Then take outside, dump in the compost, wash out the jars with soap and hot water, and take a shower. Works well enough for me. I don't like to PC or use cleaning chemicals when I don't need to.
I don't do agar work, and I think that's why I think that's why RR was such a perfectionist in the vids. You're bad habits tend to show up in the agar.
-------------------- I think nighttime is dark so you can imagine your fears with less distraction. -Calvin and Hobbes
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Munchauzen



Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,348
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Re: Contaminated Spawn Disposal Tek [Re: JaffyJaffar]
#15112569 - 09/21/11 03:28 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
JaffyJaffar said: i like but for extra measure (if i get contams) will probably boil the shit out of the jar 1st then do your bleach water tek - extra measure
Thanks, like I said, I'm no scientist. I'm sure you could combine these steps in any random order and still get decent results. Here's some more info that might help...
Health department's recommendation for a sterile dish tank is 100 parts per million. Health department's limit on dish tanks is 200 parts per million. Beer brewers use 1 part per 100, then rinse off with distilled water, to avoid imparting bleach flavor to their beer, as it can leave clingy residuals.
For advanced sterilization, this is a great read from a book named "Brewing Techniques" http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue1.2/raines.html kind of an overview of advanced sterilization as a jumpoff for more research.
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sinewave
Habitual learner

Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 65
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: Contaminated Spawn Disposal Tek [Re: Munchauzen]
#15112909 - 09/21/11 04:47 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Injection with bleach seems a good idea, then let the contents soak inside the jar with the bleach overnight.
That should kill damn near anything before ever opening the thing to the outside.
-------------------- 3 x 51 = 153 So three fiftyones is onefiftythree.
All the little curiosities, they make life most intresting.
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maug


Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 1,703
Loc: inside you
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Re: Contaminated Spawn Disposal Tek [Re: sinewave]
#15113100 - 09/21/11 05:38 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Chlorine bleach is horrible for the environment, and I don't use it in any stage of my growing. Chlorine bleach also has all sorts of nasty by-products like chloroform and trihalomethanes that you should really stay away from, and that you shouldn't dump in your compost/drain. These byproducts will now be coating your jars.
Chlorine bleah would not even work as well as safer products like chlorine dioxide (pool/aquarium cleaner, water purification drops). ClO2 will activate in 20 minutes, while chlorine bleach needs a few hours. "because household bleach is diluted to only 5% bleach, you would need 17 drops of bleach for one drop of the mixed ingredient in Aquamira[ClO2 product. I have maximum strength pool cleaner, which is an undiluted ClO2 source]" (source). ClO2 also does not have many of the harmful by-products of chlorine bleach. I still wouldn't use ClO2 in any stage of my growing either, other than maybe air-bombing.
If you soak the jars/bags in water, there shouldn't be any/many air-born spores. Even if they are, you shouldn't be emptying them or soaking them in your work area to begin with! The water will be a massive spore slurry. You can then empty your jars/bags into the bucket, and hose them off outside. Wash them out with soapy water, and wipe them down with ethanol or isopropyl if you so choose. This will not leave any residue. As always, take a shower and change your clothing before going back to your grow area. Imho PCing before you pack your jars/bags with substrate is over-kill, but it's a hell of a lot better than using bleach.
-------------------- I think nighttime is dark so you can imagine your fears with less distraction. -Calvin and Hobbes
Edited by maug (09/21/11 06:02 PM)
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Munchauzen



Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,348
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Re: Contaminated Spawn Disposal Tek [Re: maug]
#15113425 - 09/21/11 06:49 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
maug said: Chlorine bleach is horrible for the environment
wives tale. current practices make it completely safe to use bleach. its highly reactive and highly unstable which means it doesn't last long when mixed into an aqueous environment. the production of bleach is even waste-water free (with the exception of cleaning the equipment) http://esis.jrc.ec.europa.eu/doc/existing-chemicals/risk_assessment/REPORT/sodiumhypochloritereport045.pdf
Quote:
Chlorine bleach also has all sorts of nasty by-products like chloroform that you should really stay away from, and that you shouldn't dump in your compost/drain. These byproducts will now be coating your jars.
Might be misleading. Sodium hypochlorite can bond with acetone, butane, surfactants, fragrances, or isopropyl alchohol to form chloroform. Its not inherently in bleach, and does not coat anything if chloroform never forms. Also, the sodium hypochlorite must be at a concentration of at least 40% in the solution to be considered hazardous to oxidize into a harmful byproduct. From there to 1% is moderate, and less than that its very safe(NFPA 430, 2000)
Quote:
The water will be a massive spore slurry.
Sodium hypochlorite is used to sanitize drinking water, so I doubt it would be a veritable "spore slurry"
So sodium hypochlorite combined with certain organic household items can form harmful compounds. Not surprising, but then why does this exist?? Virocidin-X Thats what they use in hospitals. Its sole active ingredient is sodium hypochlorite, and has both surfactants and fragrances?! Chemistry is not my strong suit, but I believe its because the %'s in the mixture, like I mentioned earlier, that make it safe to use. That shit even kills AIDS 
thanks for the response Maug, it got me to do some learnin'...
Edited by Munchauzen (09/21/11 07:02 PM)
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maug


Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 1,703
Loc: inside you
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Re: Contaminated Spawn Disposal Tek [Re: Munchauzen]
#15113713 - 09/21/11 07:43 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes it's highly reactive. Not to be condescending or anything, but that's how it works as a sanitizer. It oxidizes and reacts with things, forming new compounds in the process. If it's used properly then within a day the bulk of the active chemical will no longer be in it's original state. This is because it is in the process of forming thousands of byproducts, depending on what it's conditions/environment are. Chloroform is one, trihalomethane is another. I don't think it's possible to list/know them all. If it's watered down, then I'd imagine the only difference is that you'll have to use more of the impure solution.
Hospitals use bleach because they are either working with massive amounts of surface area that need to be sanitized, or because autoclaving is not feasible. Safe use for humans isn't necessarily safe for your mushroom spores. >>>Because I look at bleach's use as an unknowable wild card, I do not use it.<<<
Quote:
Munchauzen said:
Quote:
The water will be a massive spore slurry.
Sodium hypochlorite is used to sanitize drinking water, so I doubt it would be a veritable "spore slurry"
My point was that the spores will be in the water, not air. This alone should greatly reduce the risk of the spores getting into your work area. If you're making 20 jars of grain a month... imo you don't need to take extra precautions like bleach or an additional round of PCing. You won't see a difference.
This is what I would recommend. Just to clairify, I don't use/recommend bleach.
Quote:
maug said: I still wouldn't use ClO2 in any stage of my growing either, other than maybe air-bombing.
If you soak the jars/bags in water, there shouldn't be any/many air-born spores. Even if they are, you shouldn't be emptying them or soaking them in your work area to begin with! The water will be a massive spore slurry. You can then empty your jars/bags into the bucket, and hose them off outside. Wash them out with soapy water, and wipe them down with ethanol or isopropyl if you so choose. This will not leave any residue. As always, take a shower and change your clothing before going back to your grow area. Imho PCing before you pack your jars/bags with substrate is over-kill, but it's a hell of a lot better than using bleach.
-------------------- I think nighttime is dark so you can imagine your fears with less distraction. -Calvin and Hobbes
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JaffyJaffar
Nom Nom Nom



Registered: 07/26/11
Posts: 1,700
Loc: AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Contaminated Spawn Disposal Tek [Re: maug]
#15113721 - 09/21/11 07:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Throw the jar away
End discussion/
Lol
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Munchauzen



Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,348
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Re: Contaminated Spawn Disposal Tek [Re: JaffyJaffar]
#15114082 - 09/21/11 08:54 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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The most typical thing to oxidize out of it at normal household uses would be some calcium scaling, from prolonged exposure to low amounts of calcium hypochlorite contained in the bleaching powder found in liquid bleach. Some bleaches have anti-scalers though, so that might not even happen.
Thanks again to all for the input. I might write some more sanitation teks at a later date, some of the brewers teks look neat. fractional sterilization sounds like it might be really good for making a giant 1 gallon mason jar LC that doesn't fit into anything I have.
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Big Pappa
Challenged



Registered: 09/03/11
Posts: 717
Loc: Smurf Village
Last seen: 11 years, 17 days
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Re: Contaminated Spawn Disposal Tek [Re: Munchauzen]
#15114120 - 09/21/11 09:03 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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geez sounds like a LOT of work!!! I just toss it in the trash, and go buy a whole flat (12 jars) for less than 10 bucks! quicker, cleaner, no mess no fuss.
I can see doing all that if you like live away from any sort of civilization...
And if its too 'shady" throwing them out in your trash because you live in apartments.. then just put it in a bag and drive buy your local gas station or "sonic drive through and toss it in there trash!
--------------------
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Munchauzen



Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 14,348
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Re: Contaminated Spawn Disposal Tek [Re: Big Pappa]
#15114153 - 09/21/11 09:10 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Big Pappa said: geez sounds like a LOT of work!!! I just toss it in the trash, and go buy a whole flat (12 jars) for less than 10 bucks! quicker, cleaner, no mess no fuss.
I can see doing all that if you like live away from any sort of civilization...
And if its too 'shady" throwing them out in your trash because you live in apartments.. then just put it in a bag and drive buy your local gas station or "sonic drive through and toss it in there trash!
see OP, at the very end. that $.88 jar costs can cost over $100 in environmental degradation which in turn leads to lower valued ecosystem services, and that's not even counting the lid. You're basically chunking liters upon liters of petrol when you trash a set of jars.
Edited by Munchauzen (09/21/11 09:10 PM)
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