Home | Community | Message Board

Kratom Eye
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
How secure, anonymous, are bitcoin transactions? What will their effect be?
    #15094964 - 09/18/11 08:51 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Bitcoins are essentially a currency system using cryptography instead of documents or an institution's reputation.  For those unfamiliar with them, you can read some info here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin


My question is: how secure and anonymous are bitcoin transactions and what effect do you think the technology will have?

There's been plenty of press on the fact that some people are purchasing drugs with them (OMG! ban it!  certainly cash is never used that way...) and that they might potentially be used to launder money or avoid taxes.  The libertarian in me thinks this is a neat technology that might make transactions easier and prevent third party (government, thieves, et cet) interference, but I don't know enough to have much of an opinion.

I'm interested in what you guys have to say, even if your not too familiar with the system.  Do you think it viable?  Secure?  Anonymous?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblefrith
God

Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 7,512
Loc: Philadelphia, PA Flag
Re: How secure, anonymous, are bitcoin transactions? What will their effect be? [Re: johnm214]
    #15098192 - 09/18/11 09:12 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I think its a nice idea but doubt it will ever work.. at least on a mainstream level.

Mining for them is just something that the average user is not going to do.

The only place that I know that accepts it is one of my bittorrent trackers.. they consider them a donation.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: How secure, anonymous, are bitcoin transactions? What will their effect be? [Re: frith]
    #15099512 - 09/19/11 05:14 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Sure, but does the system need the average user to mine?  My limited understanding is that the speed of the transactions is a function of the speed of the minining network and the optional donation a user may elect to send.  As long as bitcoins are worth something, the minining will be worth something, and somebody will process transactions.  If few people are processing, the benefits increase for those who do.  Seems reasonable to me.

The big benefit I see to something like this is the lack of central control.  Paypal-like services are nice, however; paypal has a ton of restrictions on what you may use their services for, and are not too concerned with ensuring your privacy.

I've encountered some papers and blog posts claiming the anonymity of the service is a myth, however; I haven't read through them all and have been unable to understand why.  I realize that the open nature of the transaction data means that you can track them, but I would think this would at best allow someone to know as much information as you tell anyone of those you enter into a transaction with (providing they can make them tell you).

One somewhat troubling aspect is a comment one of the developers made to the effect that they are trying to work with law enforcement to ensure the 'long arm of the law reaches through bitcoins'.  Its difficult to understand how this would work without using the ordinary means to allow law enforcement to defeat cryptography.  I understand there's concerns amongst the developers about the use of them to purchase drugs and so forth, but I fail to see how this is a very serious problem.  If anything, it makes them more attractive to me, as it indicates a lack of central control that could compromise privacy or put up the kind of hassles that paypal has given me in the past (seizing my account, holding my funds, giving buyers their money back in violation of our agreement, et cet).

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMr. Bojangles
Breathe In
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 1,937
Loc: The Dirty
Re: How secure, anonymous, are bitcoin transactions? What will their effect be? [Re: johnm214]
    #15103848 - 09/19/11 10:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I know that there's a log kept of all transactions made in the network.  And each bitcoin has an origination address that stays with it through all the transactions.  I read something about the University of Dublin being able to track down some guy who stole half a mil and identify most of his network.  I'm not computer savvy enough to understand how though.

I've never used them myself...only heard about them through people who use Silk Road and similar sites.


--------------------
"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."

Francois-Marie Arouet

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: How secure, anonymous, are bitcoin transactions? What will their effect be? [Re: Mr. Bojangles]
    #15105767 - 09/20/11 10:53 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Bojangles said:
I know that there's a log kept of all transactions made in the network.  And each bitcoin has an origination address that stays with it through all the transactions.  I read something about the University of Dublin being able to track down some guy who stole half a mil and identify most of his network.  I'm not computer savvy enough to understand how though.

I've never used them myself...only heard about them through people who use Silk Road and similar sites.





I've read a paper regarding network analysis of bitcoin transactions, and the only thing I've found so far is that when two addresses pay to a single address at about the same time you can be pretty sure they represent two addresses owned by the same person.  This occurs when someone wants to buy something for some amount but has the amount under two different "addresses". 

Using this info you can start to associate addresses with users, though it doesn't allow you to identif them, only determine what addresses go together.

It seems that so long as you avoid funding transactions from more than one address, that you can avoid this altogether.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMr. Bojangles
Breathe In
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 1,937
Loc: The Dirty
Re: How secure, anonymous, are bitcoin transactions? What will their effect be? [Re: johnm214]
    #15125451 - 09/23/11 11:05 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

But don't all bitcoins have different addresses according to where they were originated?  Of course you could mine them all at the same address and spend them but once they're in circulation it would seem like keeping the addresses together would be harder to do.  I'm not even sure if you can choose which bitcoins to use in your purchase or not...or can you?


--------------------
"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong."

Francois-Marie Arouet

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecrkhd
☾☼☽

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 2,401
Loc: A human sphere enfolding ...
Last seen: 1 year, 2 days
Re: How secure, anonymous, are bitcoin transactions? What will their effect be? [Re: Mr. Bojangles]
    #15130711 - 09/25/11 04:58 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

How anonymous is reality?


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelordsmaylead
pucker up
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/08/04
Posts: 337
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: How secure, anonymous, are bitcoin transactions? What will their effect be? [Re: crkhd]
    #15143233 - 09/27/11 05:59 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

In MT. whatever people lost money! No matter how much you think anything is safe in ends up dieing into some computer hack and your Money is gone lol thats how safe. As soon as you get it spend it right away at silk road of were ever they accept bitcoins or else...however the transactions are very secure if using gnupg encrypted messages if trading with someone that has a high reputation.

Edited by lordsmaylead (09/27/11 07:06 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesnoot
look alive ∞
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 9,644
Loc: 45º parallel Flag
Last seen: 20 hours, 18 minutes
Re: How secure, anonymous, are bitcoin transactions? What will their effect be? [Re: lordsmaylead]
    #15174357 - 10/03/11 09:58 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

what does it mean to mine a bitcoin? I like the idea of such a thing as an internet currency, but I believe if it were to get too popular it would be regulated or something.


--------------------



I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
- Simone de Beauvoir -

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineGainer
Syzurp
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 1,468
Loc: Ðirty §outh
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
Re: How secure, anonymous, are bitcoin transactions? What will their effect be? [Re: snoot]
    #15175616 - 10/04/11 08:15 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Not to long ago they dropped in value significantly. So never hold onto bitcoins spend them or cash them out soon as you get them.


--------------------
"I mean, it's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!"
-Captain Murphy

"Quit being a bitch and pill me up"
-Dr. Quinn

"Smoke that bitch"
"I am not Stormy, I am He who smokes Bitches!"
-Stormy

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblejohnm214
Male User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: How secure, anonymous, are bitcoin transactions? What will their effect be? [Re: Mr. Bojangles]
    #15175710 - 10/04/11 08:48 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

snoot said:
what does it mean to mine a bitcoin? I like the idea of such a thing as an internet currency, but I believe if it were to get too popular it would be regulated or something.




It means you calculate a bunch of hashs (math problems) untill you get a result that is acceptable by a predetermined requirement.  The answer is submitted, verified, and you get bitcoins (as of now: 50). 

Because it takes a lot of work to produce these answers, the coins cannot be forged (unless you can somehow find a hole in the software or crack the SHA256 hash algorithm) with less work than it takes to produce the legitimate coins in the first place.

The actual calculations the miners do ensures the coin transactions are legitimate and the ownership of them.

Quote:

Gainer said:
Not to long ago they dropped in value significantly. So never hold onto bitcoins spend them or cash them out soon as you get them.




Signifigantly, but not to nothing.  I believe 50% was the maximum swing over a month or something, right?  Given the system is so new and has so much speculation right now, I'd imagine that's not too concerning.  I agree that it would be foolish to use bitcoins as a tool to save money.


Quote:

Mr. Bojangles said:
But don't all bitcoins have different addresses according to where they were originated?  Of course you could mine them all at the same address and spend them but once they're in circulation it would seem like keeping the addresses together would be harder to do.  I'm not even sure if you can choose which bitcoins to use in your purchase or not...or can you?





The addresses I was talking about are the locations of the bitcoins.  They have many numbers associated with them, but the 'address' is the account number.  This represents one user, however; user's can have an arbitrary number of different accounts and can send the coins between accounts.

The 'weakness' I spoke of is when someone sends coins to one account from two accounts.  Everyone sees the transactions, but they don't know how many users participated or whatever.  You can presume that the two accounts, however; represent one user funding a transaction by depositing coins at the recipients address at the same time.

I need to read the paper again, because I'm not sure how they distinguish between two of a single user's accounts sending coins to another of their accounts.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Free Secure anonymous proxy server Anonymous 7,666 8 06/18/02 05:56 PM
by Alien
* USA Patriot Act on Network Security Practice Lana 1,646 1 11/27/01 10:08 PM
by Ishmael
* Paranoids guide to shroomery security. Anonymous 1,446 8 08/24/02 03:37 PM
by Anonymous
* The EASIEST way to hide your IP address - Internet Privacy Lana 2,071 6 07/25/03 08:25 PM
by monoamine
* Thor: Serious security issue zoodoo 2,616 13 06/05/02 04:58 AM
by Larrythescaryrex
* linux system security logs, possible break in? network guru needed sherm 1,070 6 04/14/05 04:54 AM
by MAIA
* Lana? A question concerning security/basic law. anonymoushate 1,287 3 05/24/02 05:38 AM
by Lana
* Shroomery security concern Elektrolurch 1,844 2 11/13/01 05:32 AM
by Elektrolurch

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: trendal, automan, Northerner
15,659 topic views. 0 members, 0 guests and 1 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.021 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 12 queries.