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OfflineXFINITY
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Perfect Grain Spawn!
    #15086440 - 09/16/11 11:02 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

I am sure that many will ridicule my method to produce a perfect grain, but it has proven to work for many years.  While many may consider using hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) in grains heresy, I have come up with a great way to destroy bacterial endospores and prevent contamination.

This method does NOT eliminate the need to have either an autoclave or pressure cooker, but merely adds an extra layer of protection against grain contamination. The method that I have been using is to soak grains in over-the-counter 3% hydrogen peroxide during the hydration stage. The cost is minimal around a $1 a liter and in my experience pays off immensely.

Lets first start by selecting our grain of choice. I personally like wheat berries because they are inexpensive and easy to come by in my area. I have tried many others such as wild birdseed, rye, millet, and so on, but for me the wheat berries seem to be the best at colonizing quickly. Weigh the amount of grain being used and record it for future reference when we add the gypsum.

Of course after we have selected our gain of choice we will want to remove any foreign matter and dirt. Rinse in cold tap water until the drainage is clear. With our grains now clean and strained of excess water, we may move onto the fun part of adding the hydrogen peroxide.

In a vessel large enough to hold your grain add enough hydrogen peroxide to completely cover the grain along with enough for fluid retention consumed by the grain to become hydrated. You will notice that the grains will begin to bubble and a slimy film will form on the surface of the liquid. Along with the bubbling is a byproduct of heat produced as the hydrogen peroxide reacts with organisms and other compounds being oxidized. Allow the grain to sit for at least 8 to 24 hours before continuing.

At this point our grain should be nearing a fully hydrated state and our hydrogen peroxide is soon to be exhausted of its oxidizing power. Now rinse the grain in cold tap water again (we use cold tap water because hot water tanks can contain impurities). After our grains are thoroughly rinsed we add enough distilled water to a pot large enough for our grains to be completely submerged. At this point we will need to add some gypsum (calcium sulfate dihydrate/CaSO4*2H2O). The best proportion that I have found has been 1 gram per kg of dried grain (make sure you recorded from before).  Place the pot of grain, water, and gypsum onto the stove and heat until boiling. Boil for 10 minutes to infuse the center of the grain so that it is now fully hydrated without having the grain burst. Strain the grain while shaking to remove excess moisture in the form of steam (if you have plastic plumbing you may want to run cold water simultaneously while you pour the boiling water down the drain to prevent damage to the pipes, but don’t pour the cold water over your grain.)

To have adequate moisture content for our grain we may test it by taking a handful, if any grain sticks it might be too wet. Another method is to use a piece of toilet paper by placing a small portion onto a single sheet, waiting 15 seconds, and checking to see if there is a wet spot. If there is a wet spot the grain can be dried further by dumping it onto a cookie sheet and placing it in an oven at 175*C (350*F) for 5-10 minutes to just heat up the excess moisture. Shake the grains again to remove the steam (use caution to not burn yourself).

When our grains are at the optimal moisture level we may now prepare our jars. Fill the jars 2/3 full with the grain and cover with your lid of choice (there are many options around an each person has their own preference, the only thing you shouldn’t comprise on is sterility and gas exchange.) Pressure cook or sterilize in an autoclave at the normal 15psi (100kPa) for 60-90 minutes. Using the hydrogen peroxide I have found that I only need to sterilize for 60 minutes, but if you are going to spend this much time preparing everything you might as well keep it in there for the extra 30 minutes.  Allow the pressure cooker or autoclave to return to room temperature naturally to prevent broken jars and other catastrophes.

After the jars of grain have fully cooled to room temperature it is now to inoculate with your favorite mushroom via either a spore syringe, liquid culture, or grain to grain transfer.

Good luck!


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Invisibledtowntoker
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Re: Perfect Grain Spawn! [Re: XFINITY]
    #15086597 - 09/16/11 11:50 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Cool write up.  I don't know of the info is accurate,  but good job anyways.


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Offlinesteelmonkey
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Re: Perfect Grain Spawn! [Re: dtowntoker]
    #15086671 - 09/16/11 12:14 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Decent write up on grain prep but adding Peroxide to the soak is a waste of time and money


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OfflineXFINITY
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Re: Perfect Grain Spawn! [Re: steelmonkey]
    #15086699 - 09/16/11 12:25 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Have you tried adding it? The $3-4 is worth it. Just another layer of protection.


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OfflineXFINITY
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Re: Perfect Grain Spawn! [Re: XFINITY]
    #15086705 - 09/16/11 12:27 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Also it seems like my grain hydrates faster than will just water alone, I think the effervescence of the H2O2 loosing an oxygen atom helps to stir things up a bit. Almost like boiling at room temperature.


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Offlinesteelmonkey
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Re: Perfect Grain Spawn! [Re: XFINITY]
    #15087065 - 09/16/11 01:54 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

No offence but why would I add it when the very reason we PC grains for the lenght of time we do is to kill off bacteria

It's redundant to add Peroxide and then PC

i appreciate the time you took to make that write up though


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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: Perfect Grain Spawn! [Re: steelmonkey]
    #15087093 - 09/16/11 02:00 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

:whathesaid:

I do agree, but then again different strokes for different folks. If
that is how you like to do it have at it, you strike me as someone who
has a nack for experimentation and trying new things, that is never a
bad quality to have.

However I do agree with steel that this extra layer of protection as you
have deemed it is unnecessary.

No offense intended.


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OfflineXFINITY
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Re: Perfect Grain Spawn! [Re: steelmonkey]
    #15087099 - 09/16/11 02:01 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

It only took a couple of minutes, perhaps I should write tutorials for people around here, I have a way with expressing ideas through words.


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OfflineXFINITY
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Re: Perfect Grain Spawn! [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15087115 - 09/16/11 02:06 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

EvilMushroom666 said:
:whathesaid:

I do agree, but then again different strokes for different folks. If
that is how you like to do it have at it, you strike me as someone who
has a nack for experimentation and trying new things, that is never a
bad quality to have.

However I do agree with steel that this extra layer of protection as you
have deemed it is unnecessary.

No offense intended.




I just though I would share with the world my success, it does help though, previously I was having a horrible time with contamination  especially with WBS, but since using the H2O2 I never have any problems. So perhaps someone could try this method if they have issues with contamination from grains, particularly from the endospores not opening completely.


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Offlineozzysmygod
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Re: Perfect Grain Spawn! [Re: XFINITY] * 1
    #15087230 - 09/16/11 02:36 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

You soak in Hydrogen Peroxide and you do the Boil in distilled water?? Are you crazy, what a waste of resources!


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: Perfect Grain Spawn! [Re: XFINITY]
    #15087253 - 09/16/11 02:40 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

sounds expensive.


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Offline3Cajun1Mo8
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Re: Perfect Grain Spawn! [Re: ozzysmygod]
    #15087267 - 09/16/11 02:43 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Cut out the soaking step altogether, PC your grains for 30 minutes to an hour to hydrate them then load your jars and PC again. saves me a hell of a lot of time


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: Perfect Grain Spawn! [Re: 3Cajun1Mo8]
    #15087281 - 09/16/11 02:47 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

3Cajun1Mo8 said:
Cut out the soaking step altogether, PC your grains for 30 minutes to an hour to hydrate them then load your jars and PC again. saves me a hell of a lot of time




i cant believe ive never thought of this o.o!!!!

tests must be done!!!


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Offline3Cajun1Mo8
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Re: Perfect Grain Spawn! [Re: k00laid]
    #15087302 - 09/16/11 02:51 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

It works wonders with yellow popcorn, have yet to try rye or anything simply because popcorn works so well.


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: Perfect Grain Spawn! [Re: 3Cajun1Mo8]
    #15087312 - 09/16/11 02:53 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

once my shiitake syringe gets here i have more jars to make, and ill try this method, might make a post.

i use rye


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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: Perfect Grain Spawn! [Re: XFINITY]
    #15087604 - 09/16/11 04:00 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

XFINITY said:
I just though I would share with the world my success, it does help though, previously I was having a horrible time with contamination  especially with WBS, but since using the H2O2 I never have any problems. So perhaps someone could try this method if they have issues with contamination from grains, particularly from the endospores not opening completely.




If you are having issues with contamination after PCing it would be one
of a few variables. One thing could be you need to increase the PC time.
As your jar size increases(Or if you are using bags) you need to PC for
a longer period of time. Also could be your method of inoculation or the
source you are using to inoculate with.

If you PC properly hydrated grain you do not have to add h202 to the soak
water or anything along those lines.

If it works for you it works for you, but I bet their is a variable you
are overlooking that had something to do with your contamination problems.


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OfflineXFINITY
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Re: Perfect Grain Spawn! [Re: 3Cajun1Mo8]
    #15098881 - 09/19/11 01:18 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

3Cajun1Mo8 said:
It works wonders with yellow popcorn, have yet to try rye or anything simply because popcorn works so well.




But the purpose of the soak is to have the bacterial endospores open. Once they are open they will always be killed during sterilization. This is partly why reusable medical equipment is sonically cleaned before sterilization. The H2O2 kills most of the endospores even before they go into the pressure cooker. Out of the hundreds of grain jars I have sterilized this method has never been contaminated... not even once. Knock on wood.


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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: Perfect Grain Spawn! [Re: XFINITY]
    #15098907 - 09/19/11 01:24 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Out of the several hundreds of grain jars I have PCed for use in growing
shiitake for my small scale operation I have yet to encounter a single
contaminate that was not a result of a faulty filter. All this without
any use of H202.

Like I said before I think you are over looking a vector of contamination
that may have been the cause of your previous failures. I am not doubting
that it works for your situation, but if you go about prepping and pressure
cooking your grain properly, be it WBS or rye you should have no problems
and no need to add h202 to your soak water.


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OfflineSexySmurff
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Re: Perfect Grain Spawn! [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #15098973 - 09/19/11 01:45 AM (9 years, 7 months ago)

imo, an unnecessary extra layer of work.


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Re: Perfect Grain Spawn! [Re: XFINITY]
    #15101263 - 09/19/11 04:12 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

XFINITY said:
But the purpose of the soak is to have the bacterial endospores open. Once they are open they will always be killed during sterilization.


Exactly, and this is why there should be no real benefit to adding H2O2.

When you had contam issues were you doing the EXACT same procedures, i.e. did you soak in water for the exact same time, same grain, same store, same jars, same amounts in jars etc.

Some people might change a few things at once and attribute success to the wrong thing. e.g. if you never soaked before I would say the soak is doing it.

I have read endospores might not grow in harsh environments, so the addition of H2O2 might actually be counterproductive and not just wasteful. I was trying to sterilize grains with bleach before and was letting them grow first and then added bleach, as I believed they might resist germinating in "toxic" water.

But the H2O2 could possibly encourage them to germinate more, I don't know, with the extra oxygen in the water. If you do continue you should be able to get it cheaper, maybe 35% stuff in a hydroponics store.


Edited by blackout (09/19/11 04:17 PM)


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