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shamanamba
The Shaman


Registered: 06/15/05
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14 days, One jar has... something?... (BRF cakes) [Now with pics]
#15085600 - 09/16/11 12:41 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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This year has been my 3d or 4th attempt at growing p. cubensis, following the PF Tek method. So far i'm on my second batch of 12 half pint jars.
The first batch went much better, although only 3 of the 12 jars reached full colonisation without contamination. But those were prepared in a crappily sterilized bathroom.
Before starting on this second batch, I made a glove box and an incubation chamber so this time, the preparation was much more steryl and conditions have been controlled more closely.
I have been waiting on this second batch to show signs of mycelium growth for five days now and every little bit of the substrate is still devoid of any white at all. I understand that it can take longer than this to happen but it just seems odd.
The following factors seem like they may be the cause but I just wanted to run this by everyone on here.
1. The spore vendor sent me 8 syringes. I used 2, maybe 3 on the first 12 jars, then the rest of the syringes sat in the fridge for a couple months until 5 days ago when I used another 2 syringes to inoculate this second batch of 12 jars. I noticed that small white fuzzies were floating around in the syringes. Donno whats up with that but I went ahead and inoculated the jars anyway.
2. I had the incubation chamber set to 86 degress for the first 3 days, but later, I read on here that its better to keep them incubating at 75-80 degrees. The chamber has been sitting at a steady 77 degress for the past 2 days.
I am thinking of "re-innoculating" the jars if nothing shows up in the next few days, but i'm wondering if the added water from the syringes will mess things up even more... (?)
I will post back with more relevant details when I think of them
Any advice and information is greatly appreciated and thankyou in advance to anyone who takes the time to shed some light my way
-------------------- The Shaman
Edited by shamanamba (09/25/11 04:20 AM)
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The Influence
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Re: Not even a hint to colonisation 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15085640 - 09/16/11 01:07 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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You need to go to youtube and search "let's grow mushrooms PF tek parts 1-4". Watch all of them, take notes then watch again. I did this and am on my first grow now, have 8 of 10 jars at 100% colonization at 2 weeks the other two jars will be there in a day. No contams on any of the jars. I didn't do anything special except do everything exactly as the videos showed, no cutting corners.
If you used two to three syringes on twelve jars, that threw off your water content right there. You only need a 1/4 ml per inoc hole, thats 1 ml/cc per jar. You should have at least gotten 10 jars out of one syringe.
Also do not keep your jars in an incubation chamber, this prevents gas exhange, place them out in the open on a shelf. The dy verm and micropore tape will protect them.
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shamanamba
The Shaman


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Re: Not even a hint to colonisation 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: The Influence]
#15085698 - 09/16/11 01:47 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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First off, thank you so much for the quick reply. I have seen those videos you mentioned but because I have seen so many different versions of the same tek, all claiming to be the most effective, I have just chosen bits and pieces from each source I have found and incorporated them into my procedure. I'll review those videos again and follow them to the "T" for my next batch.
In the mean time, i'm still open to any other input that anyone may have on the information I have provided above.
-------------------- The Shaman
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El Douche
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Re: Not even a hint to colonisation 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15085713 - 09/16/11 01:59 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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It is popular consensus that it can take up to 3 weeks to show growth. 5 days to 2 weeks being the norm.
I would not worry about over-hydration.
Room temp(70+) is fine for incubation.
Spore syringes go bad. Some last for 6 months, some only one month.
-------------------- I'm The Douche, Doucher, His Royal Doucheness, or El Doucherino if you are not into that whole brevity thing.
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The Influence
Free Sheeks



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Re: Not even a hint to colonisation 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: El Douche]
#15085782 - 09/16/11 02:28 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
El Douche said: It is popular consensus that it can take up to 3 weeks to show growth. 5 days to 2 weeks being the norm.
I would not worry about over-hydration.
Room temp(70+) is fine for incubation.
Spore syringes go bad. Some last for 6 months, some only one month.
I agree that 5-10 days to show growth would not be to far fetched, but if your not showing growth within 3 weeks, most likely something is wrong.
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Stropharis



Registered: 04/02/07
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Re: Not even a hint to colonisation 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: The Influence]
#15085832 - 09/16/11 02:46 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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86°? Why?
Be patient, five days is nothing.
Don't mix and match your TEKs yet, stick to one.
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Devolver
Honey Badger



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Re: Not even a hint to colonisation 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Stropharis]
#15085864 - 09/16/11 03:09 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Patience is the key. My first batch of jars took 10 days before they showed. Nothing you can do but wait right now.
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JaffyJaffar
Nom Nom Nom



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Re: Not even a hint to colonisation 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Devolver]
#15085890 - 09/16/11 03:27 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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I read that growing myc produces up to 5 degrees internal temp....you gotta factor that into your final temp....if your at 77 then internally its 82
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urbanguru


Registered: 09/11/11
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: JaffyJaffar]
#15085974 - 09/16/11 04:50 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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I read in RR notes that anything over 83 degrees drastically reduced colonization speed. I for one believe the man knows what hes talking about. Keep your jars around 75ish and you will be great. 1 cc per jar is a rule of thumb. Be patient and give them time to do their thing. up to 3 weeks IME.
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The Influence
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: urbanguru]
#15085986 - 09/16/11 04:57 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
urbanguru said: I read in RR notes that anything over 83 degrees drastically reduced colonization speed. I for one believe the man knows what hes talking about. Keep your jars around 75ish and you will be great. 1 cc per jar is a rule of thumb. Be patient and give them time to do their thing. up to 3 weeks IME.
I dont believe he said it reduced colonization speed, just that there wasn't any faster colonization, and that temps upwards of 80 degrees is more optimal for contams to grow.
Jars do colonize pretty fast at the 72-75 degree range from my experience. Haven't tried any higher because it is not recommended as you pointed out, and 8 out of 10 of my jars are at 100% at the 2 week mark in the above mentioned temps.
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Devolver
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: The Influence]
#15086012 - 09/16/11 05:16 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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The quote I saw from RR stated roughly that "At 86 degrees colonization is only 2/3's as fast as 80 degrees".
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JaffyJaffar
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Devolver]
#15086022 - 09/16/11 05:30 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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here's the rr quote
*I have found little to no difference in colonization speeds between 75 and 81F. Growth falls off rapidly at 83F and above, not 87F. That chart above is bogus, period. I have tried dozens of times to duplicate it and it can't be done. It was apparently made by someone who did ONE grow with sloppy note taking, and sent the results to Paul. Growth is much slower in cold temperatures until you hit 69F, where it speeds up quite a bit until about 75F, where it remains 'flat' until 81, then is flat again until 83, where it falls off fast beginning at 84. By 'flat' I mean there is no discernible increase or decrease in rate of growth within those ranges. Jars will colonize as fast at 75F as they will at 80F. I've proved this time and time again with every strain in my collection. Growth also falls off rapidly above 84, and this is why so many new folks have problems with incubators set at 86F, and jars that 'won't colonize'. The figures I give are substrate temperatures, not air temperatures. The temp inside the jar is 1 to 5 degrees higher than the surrounding air, depending on where in the colonization cycle the jar is. The heat produced falls off fast as the jar approaches full colonization. If you live in an igloo, (or near the waterfront) by all means build an incubator, but keep it in the normal room temperature ranges for best results. I see no reason to set one above 80F, and lots of reasons not to. Here's a picture of one of my shelves for colonizing jars. The substrate bags are there because I ran out of room on the other shelf. These are in a room at normal room temperature, and exposed to light nearly all day. I don't even put the pf jars on a top shelf where it's warmer. Of course, I had a good teacher on how to make them up, as everyone will soon know. COLONIZATION
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urbanguru


Registered: 09/11/11
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Devolver]
#15086077 - 09/16/11 06:11 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Devolver said: The quote I saw from RR stated roughly that "At 86 degrees colonization is only 2/3's as fast as 80 degrees".
I knew that's what he said I just didn't have the time to find the quote myself. I was guilty of overheating my jars at first too. Lots of misinformation floating around but I trust what RR has too say.
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Stropharis



Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 1,854
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: urbanguru]
#15086227 - 09/16/11 07:42 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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"RR said this" "RR said that" "no he didn't RR said this" "RR this RR that"
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shamanamba
The Shaman


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Stropharis]
#15094238 - 09/18/11 12:31 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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ok its now at 7 days and still no signs of growth, but here's a new detail I was unaware of until tonight... my room mate just told me he pressure cooked the jars on maximum heat for 2 hours...
-------------------- The Shaman
Edited by shamanamba (09/18/11 12:32 AM)
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Big Pappa
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15094267 - 09/18/11 12:46 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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thats fine as long as the PC didnt run out of water... NEVER let it run dry!!!
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Wing
The Eye Tyrant



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15094275 - 09/18/11 12:51 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
shamanamba said:
The spore vendor sent me 8 syringes. I used 2, maybe 3 on the first 12 jars, then the rest of the syringes sat in the fridge for a couple months until 5 days ago when I used another 2 syringes to inoculate this second batch of 12 jars. I noticed that small white fuzzies were floating around in the syringes. Donno whats up with that but I went ahead and inoculated the jars anyway.
2-3 syringes for 12 is a lot of spore solution. Without pics its hard to tell but could be too wet.
-------------------- My Old Grow Logs
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shamanamba
The Shaman


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Wing]
#15094280 - 09/18/11 12:55 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'll label the jars and take some pics soon
-------------------- The Shaman
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Devolver
Honey Badger



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15094307 - 09/18/11 01:16 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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2-3 syringes wouldn't make it too wet. If anything it would speed up the colonization slightly.
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The Influence
Free Sheeks



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Devolver]
#15094324 - 09/18/11 01:24 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Devolver said: 2-3 syringes wouldn't make it too wet. If anything it would speed up the colonization slightly.
Where did you here that from? There would be more spores competeing to germinate which would slow germinization, and also that much more water would defenitely saturate the substrate too much. This is where the saying more is not always better comes in.
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shamanamba
The Shaman


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: The Influence]
#15094347 - 09/18/11 01:38 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm gonna go ahead and agree with The Influence's statement above. I can very visibly see the wetter areas in the substrate on each side of the jars. Maybe try and dry them a little by putting a fan in the incubation chamber for a few hours?
-------------------- The Shaman
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The Influence
Free Sheeks



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15094350 - 09/18/11 01:42 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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I would take them out of the incubater all together, being in an enclosed area does not allow gas exchange. I just birthed 5 cakes that too me 2 weeks to fully colonize and then 1 week to consolidate, all the while on a shelf in a room out in the open.
If you start to see a discoloration in the substrate in little areas it could be a contam. If it just looks really moist I would leave it and wait. But I would really suggest putting them out in the open.
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Devolver
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: The Influence]
#15094365 - 09/18/11 01:50 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've always heard that the more starting points(spores) the mycelium has to expand from the faster it will colonize. The resulting increase of speed is negligible when compared to the potential they would have if utilized more efficiently though.
When you say, more spores competing to germinate would slow down the process, it implies less spores would speed up the process. Is that what you were implying?
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The Influence
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Devolver]
#15094382 - 09/18/11 02:00 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Devolver said: I've always heard that the more starting points(spores) the mycelium has to expand from the faster it will colonize. The resulting increase of speed is negligible when compared to the potential they would have if utilized more efficiently though.
When you say, more spores competing to germinate would slow down the process, it implies less spores would speed up the process. Is that what you were implying?
Yes that is what I am implying. Here is a thread on the matter, qouted from a trustd culitvator:http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7801101#7801101
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Devolver
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Devolver] 1
#15094408 - 09/18/11 02:15 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote from your link:
"adding too many spores will first of all mess about with the water content of your substrate (too much water will slow down colonization) and having too many spores also creates lots of different substrains (as every two spores will mate creating different substrates). Some of those substrains can be incompatible and instead of merging will compete with each other instead, reducing yield."
It says having more spores can lead to potential incompatible substrains but that would imply that if you had 2 pairs they could still be incompatible, and we are only talking about reducing yield.
Regardless, wouldn't this excerpt still imply that more spores increases mycelium growth? Whether it's competing or merging its still growing and that was the original question wasn't it?
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The Influence
Free Sheeks



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Devolver]
#15094425 - 09/18/11 02:33 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Devolver said: Quote from your link:
"adding too many spores will first of all mess about with the water content of your substrate (too much water will slow down colonization) and having too many spores also creates lots of different substrains (as every two spores will mate creating different substrates). Some of those substrains can be incompatible and instead of merging will compete with each other instead, reducing yield."
It says having more spores can lead to potential incompatible substrains but that would imply that if you had 2 pairs they could still be incompatible, and we are only talking about reducing yield.
Regardless, wouldn't this excerpt still imply that more spores increases mycelium growth? Whether it's competing or merging its still growing and that was the original question wasn't it?
We are trying to figure out why OP's jars are not showing signs of colonization and you had stated that the amount of spore solution would not effect the jars, when it most defenitely will. I did re-read over some threads and you are right, having more spores will usually cause faster colonization, but only a day or two. That would be achieved by having a darker spore syringe though, as water content will be thrown off by using to many syringes, and that the OP definitely did.
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JaffyJaffar
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Devolver]
#15094426 - 09/18/11 02:34 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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How did you reach a conclusion that more is better from an excerpt that says more is not better
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Stropharis



Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 1,854
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: JaffyJaffar]
#15094431 - 09/18/11 02:39 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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It is the water that is the concern, not too many spores.
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JaffyJaffar
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Stropharis]
#15094442 - 09/18/11 02:46 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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also if course verm was used then water content can be doubly off with the extra solution...with course verm you gotta use less water then 1 cup
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Devolver
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: The Influence]
#15094451 - 09/18/11 02:50 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hell, you could get a 4 pack of the same syringes, make sure you DON'T shake them up, expel 75% of the SOLUTION out of each of them, and then inject the remainder into each one of the 4 holes of a PF Tek jar and I still don't think it would be very noticeable considering the amount of variables we are working with. Not for a novice like myself anyway.
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JaffyJaffar
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Devolver]
#15094465 - 09/18/11 02:57 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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One out of my 5 jars is stalled because it got more than 1cc of solution whereas the remaining got 1...plus I used course verm with 1 cup of water so my water content got all screwy
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The Influence
Free Sheeks



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Devolver]
#15094467 - 09/18/11 02:59 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Devolver said: Hell, you could get a 4 pack of the same syringes, make sure you DON'T shake them up, expel 75% of the SOLUTION out of each of them, and then inject the remainder into each one of the 4 holes of a PF Tek jar and I still don't think it would be very noticeable considering the amount of variables we are working with. Not for a novice like myself anyway.
I dont quite understand what you are saying? You were right that more spores will encourage faster colonization, but it is proven that too much water content will slow colonization considerably, and the OP definitely used to much solution.
Why would you spray out 75% of the solution? Even with out shaking the clear water in a syringe contains millions of spores.
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Wing
The Eye Tyrant



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: The Influence]
#15095624 - 09/18/11 12:22 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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The verdict is still out without pics, but I'm still banking on possibly too much spore solution.
The Influence is correct. Too much spore solution will mess up your jars. 2-3 syringes for 12 jars is enough to fudge things up.
OP - don't fan 'em. Just set them out in the open, not in an incubator (unless its below 65f in your room).
-------------------- My Old Grow Logs
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buffer
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Wing] 1
#15095911 - 09/18/11 01:20 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Lets say he used 30cc between 12 jars vs 10cc between 12 jars.
-If he used 30cc he used 1.014 ounces of fluid between those 12 jars. That is 0.084 oz per jar.
-If he used 10cc for 12 jars he would have used 0.338 ounces of fluid between the 12 or 0.028 ounces per jar..
So he used an extra 0.056 ounces per jar (roughly 1.656cc) extra by using 30cc (3 syringes). This is all rough..assuming th esyringes were filled to exactly 10cc, and he used consistent amounts etc... Anyway.. using an extra 1.6ishcc per jar(2.5cc all together) is a bit of a difference. I feel like it's borderline it might not make or break someone but that is a bit of extra water content. 2.5cc is 0.084oz, which is then 0.055oz greater than .83cc (10cc between 12 jars or 0.028 ounces).
0.056oz is 1/26th of a 1.5oz shotglass. It's not THAT much fluid. I don't know if it is solely to blame for not seeing colonization.
Edited by buffer (09/18/11 01:23 PM)
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Stropharis



Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 1,854
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: buffer]
#15095921 - 09/18/11 01:23 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
buffer said: Lets say he used 30cc between 12 jars vs 10cc between 12 jars.
-If he used 30cc he used 1.014 ounces of fluid between those 12 jars. That is 0.084 oz per jar.
-If he used 10cc for 12 jars he would have used 0.338 ounces of fluid between the 12 or 0.028 ounces per jar..
So he used an extra 0.056 ounces per jar (roughly 1.656cc) extra by using 30cc (3 syringes). This is all rough..assuming th esyringes were filled to exactly 10cc, and he used consistent amounts etc... Anyway.. using an extra 1.6ishcc per jar(2.5cc all together) is a bit of a difference. I feel like it's borderline it might not make or break someone but that is a bit of extra water content. 2.5cc is 0.084oz, which is then 0.055oz greater than .83cc (10cc between 12 jars or 0.028 ounces).
I don't know if it is solely to blame for not seeing colonization.
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Big Pappa
Challenged



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Re: Not even a hint to colonisation 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15096061 - 09/18/11 01:47 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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When you injected the jars, did you aim the needle towards the outer glass of the jar?? or did you aim it towards the center of the jar??
I know this sounds silly, but if you inject in the center it takes longer to see noticeable growth.....
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buffer
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Re: Not even a hint to colonisation 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Big Pappa]
#15096856 - 09/18/11 04:27 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Big Pappa said: When you injected the jars, did you aim the needle towards the outer glass of the jar?? or did you aim it towards the center of the jar??
I know this sounds silly, but if you inject in the center it takes longer to see noticeable growth.....
This is also a good point. It;s common practice to inject against the glass so you see visible growth at the earliest possible time.
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RusoQuintalis
Renaissance Man



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: buffer]
#15097156 - 09/18/11 05:45 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've followed the BF Tek videos quite closely, studying them for a while before I actually began. My cakes were twice the recommended size, inoculating with 1-2cc of Brazilian cubensis per cake.
The colonization started to show up around the 1-2 week mark, at 77-85F, damn heat waves! Even so, it progressed quite slowly compared to what many people talk about, patience is the key.
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shamanamba
The Shaman


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: RusoQuintalis]
#15098388 - 09/18/11 09:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Alright everyone, thank you all for the great info! I'm back with the pics as promised.
I'll start out with my incubation chamber setup. I know the use of an incubation chamber has been discouraged already but I just like the environmental control it offers so I made a revision on it's design as follows.
The picture below is the first tub with water in it which is heated by a fish tank heater (variable temperature control)

The second tub goes into the water, thus conducting the temperature of the water to the inner tub. At this stage of assembly the chamber looks like this. The below picture also shows my jars as they have been places for the past 7 days now.

In light of the possibility of air exchange restrictions imposed by the chamber, I have installed in the lid a 5 volt fan from a spare PC power supply I had around the house. For now it's powered by batteries but I plan on rigging another spare power supply to run it eventually.

And Here's the whole thing put together.

And now, here's a few pics of a few of the jars. I was going to take a pic of each side of each jar but they all look about the same so here's just a few pics to get a general ideal.





I hope this helps you help me. If there's any other information or pictures you guys need, just let me know.
[EDIT] : And yes, I made sure to inject the solution toward the sides of the jars.
-------------------- The Shaman
Edited by shamanamba (09/18/11 09:51 PM)
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The Influence
Free Sheeks



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15098524 - 09/18/11 10:08 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Your jars are getting no gas exchange with the tinfoil on the top. And I dont know if the fan is good idea. There is a reason that incubators are not used that much anymore and that is because they are ineffcient. I don't know what else to tell ya except good luck
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shamanamba
The Shaman


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: The Influence]
#15098617 - 09/18/11 10:21 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Take the foil off? I guess I should get some medical breathing tape to put over then inoculation points then?
-------------------- The Shaman
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The Influence
Free Sheeks



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15098670 - 09/18/11 10:29 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Did you use a dry verm layer? If so this would be enough to protect them. I used micropore tape as added protection, but have read of plenty of success without it. If you did use the dry verm layer, take the foil off and do not put that fan over the top of them, that would most likely just force contams down into the jar. They really just need to sit out in the open.
If you didn't use a dry verm layer I don't know what to do then?
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shamanamba
The Shaman


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: The Influence]
#15098711 - 09/18/11 10:40 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Fortunately, I did put a dry verm layer on the top. I'm just going to go ahead and ditch the chamber and keep them up in the kitchen cabinets for a few days without the foil and see what happens.
-------------------- The Shaman
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The Influence
Free Sheeks



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15098826 - 09/18/11 11:06 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shamanamba said: Fortunately, I did put a dry verm layer on the top. I'm just going to go ahead and ditch the chamber and keep them up in the kitchen cabinets for a few days without the foil and see what happens.
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shamanamba
The Shaman


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: The Influence]
#15099175 - 09/19/11 01:18 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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So here's what I got going on now.
Since I have 12 jars to play with, I've decided to make this situation into an experiment.
Taking into consideration the things I've learned so far, I've again made some more tweaks to the incubation chamber rather than ditching it altogether.
I am keeping 3 jars with the micro-pore tape over the inoculation points in the chamber, and 3 jars without the tape.
I am doing the same thing with the other 6 jars in the kitchen cabinet.
Pics below.


-------------------- The Shaman
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shamanamba
The Shaman


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15102293 - 09/19/11 05:42 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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just checked on the jars today and found something growing! Worms!
... worms...
Yep. One of my jars has worms.
-------------------- The Shaman
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Mushroom Wisperer
Embrace the Martian



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15102330 - 09/19/11 05:49 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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The fuck?
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shamanamba
The Shaman


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Mushroom Wisperer]
#15102345 - 09/19/11 05:53 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I know, especially after having been PC'd for two hours prior to inoculation... those must have been some hard freakin core worm eggs!
-------------------- The Shaman
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Wing
The Eye Tyrant



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15102369 - 09/19/11 05:58 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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They had to have gotten in there after you PC'd.
-------------------- My Old Grow Logs
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shamanamba
The Shaman


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Wing]
#15102448 - 09/19/11 06:10 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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That does stand to reason, but I just have a hard time imagining any bug getting into the incubation chamber, under the foil, through the inoculation hole, under the dry verm layer and then laying eggs... The worms are way down in the jar towards the bottom.
-------------------- The Shaman
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Wing
The Eye Tyrant



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15102462 - 09/19/11 06:13 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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pics?
-------------------- My Old Grow Logs
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shamanamba
The Shaman


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Wing]
#15102562 - 09/19/11 06:28 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I just tried to snap a pic but its nearly impossible because of the texture on surface of the jars and how small the worms are. Even though I see them with my eyes, the worms just seem to blend in with the substrate in the pictures.
-------------------- The Shaman
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Wing
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15102571 - 09/19/11 06:30 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Keep your eye on the other jars. I hope it all turns out well for you.
-------------------- My Old Grow Logs
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The Influence
Free Sheeks



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Wing]
#15103043 - 09/19/11 07:57 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Are they moving? You might just have the start to some ropey mycelium.
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buffer
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: The Influence]
#15103883 - 09/19/11 10:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I can't beleive you've got worms after pressure cooking! Take pics man.. this is an odd one for sure
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urbanguru


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15104849 - 09/20/11 04:55 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shamanamba said: just checked on the jars today and found something growing! Worms!
... worms...
Yep. One of my jars has worms.
I just wanted to say that i to thought that i had worms in a few jars(10) that i had to dump out due to bad spore syringe. The jars didnt contaminate but i had zero colonization after a month. anyway when i opened them up to dump them out and i noticed what i thought looked like little worms about the size and shape of a medium sized maggot. I touched them with the fork and they just decintigrated. i never saw any movement or anything like that and I still have no idea what they were. It had nothing to do bad sterilization because i did the 10 jars in two sets of five along with two other sets of five from a different syringe. both time were weeks apart and the total of 10 jars from the other syringe all colonized normally and fruited as such. no contams watsoever. like i said i have no idea what they where but the only place they could have come from was the syringe.
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shamanamba
The Shaman


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: urbanguru]
#15104857 - 09/20/11 05:05 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Oh these little guys are squirming around. There's no doubt about it, they're worms alright.
-------------------- The Shaman
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rainx
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15104880 - 09/20/11 05:21 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Absolem
-------------------- "The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna" is best source of insight into the self, universe, and the entheogen catalyzed experience. Forward by Aldous Huxley.
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urbanguru


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15104895 - 09/20/11 05:35 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shamanamba said: Oh these little guys are squirming around. There's no doubt about it, they're worms alright.

Those look identical to what I had in mine but I never saw them move. Maybe they were dead after being in the jars for a month. It's a mystery to me. Still no colonization?
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buffer
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: urbanguru]
#15104900 - 09/20/11 05:41 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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That is fucking disgusting and makes me wanna barf. Sorry.
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shamanamba
The Shaman


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: buffer]
#15104919 - 09/20/11 05:50 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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You know, its funny... The last 12 jars had a few with worms but those were PC'd for a little under an hour and incubated outside so it didn't surprise me much. The strange thing is that one of the jars with worms colonized but didn't contaminate.
The worms grew into little flies that crawled around the inside of the jar and on the mycelium but never in that jar did I see a tiny little bit of anything other than pure white ropey myc. When I opened that jar to dunk, the flies swarmed out and left behind a beautiful solid white cake.
That cake is now on it's second flush and a big flush at that. The other two cakes which had no worms or flies in their jars are just now beginning to pin. Maybe theres something magic about worm poo?
The first flush was only 3 mushrooms which were kind of small when the veil broke. I told my room mate he could have them and so he ate the three of them right after picking them off the cake.
He lost his freaking mind that night. Said he'd never tripped like that in his life, so I'm excited to see what this second flush will bring for me.
still no signs of colonization on these cakes though =(... and baffled that the worms developed in these ones after that long sterilization, glove box and incubation chamber and leaving the foil on and all that...
-------------------- The Shaman
Edited by shamanamba (09/20/11 05:58 AM)
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urbanguru


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15104937 - 09/20/11 06:03 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Sweet.... U gave the fly mushrooms to your roommate.
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shamanamba
The Shaman


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: urbanguru]
#15104944 - 09/20/11 06:07 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hahahahahaha well it sounds bad when you put it like that, but he's been helping with everything from the beginning and watched everything happen as it happened so he knew what was up.
-------------------- The Shaman
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Shroom_Goon
Just Some Guy

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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15105160 - 09/20/11 08:05 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm sorry, but
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The Influence
Free Sheeks



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Shroom_Goon]
#15109154 - 09/20/11 08:55 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Damn that's a bummer. I think it's safe to say start over.
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Stropharis



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: The Influence]
#15110216 - 09/21/11 01:17 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Looks like maggots to me.
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shamanamba
The Shaman


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Stropharis]
#15119905 - 09/22/11 09:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I just figured it out! It's because I inoculated them on 9/11!
-------------------- The Shaman
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shamanamba
The Shaman


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15130649 - 09/25/11 04:25 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just got around to chucking the contents of the jars in question. Among them were a few which had the mean green, some still had nothing, then I came across this one and figured I may hold on to it and see what happens.
It's got some kind of white stuff growing, but I'm sceptical as to whether or not its what I was hoping for.
Whatchya' guys think?
-------------------- The Shaman
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keeno
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15130775 - 09/25/11 05:48 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think your wardrobe is nicely in focus haha
hard to say from this pic, but from my cobweb experience, it's a lot fluffier and not bright white like mycelium, which looks proper thick and forms little ropey bits
but it seems as if different 'strains' behave differently to an extent. I'd say hold onto it and see. apparently cobweb spreads fast, so if it covers the whole jar in 2-3 days and still looks whispy, then it's fucked
-------------------- Check out my Psilocybe Cyanofriscosa (Allenii) TEK
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shamanamba
The Shaman


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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: keeno]
#15130909 - 09/25/11 07:25 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yeah, I just can't seem to get my phone to focus... Not even with the "close-up mode"
-------------------- The Shaman
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keeno
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15131081 - 09/25/11 08:42 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah takes a bit of faffing around, I have to admit. sometimes it's better to have the phone further away and then zooming in, in photoshop.
also, keeping your hand steady really helps I've found
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Wing
The Eye Tyrant



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: keeno]
#15131824 - 09/25/11 11:55 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yea just hold the camera and jar further apart and find that happy distance
-------------------- My Old Grow Logs
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OnePerEyeM8
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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: Wing]
#15161168 - 10/01/11 04:08 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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So were the contaminated jars the ones in the cabinet or your incubator? Especially curious on how your incubator did 
And sorry to hear about your wormy jars, that's a bummer and is weird as fuck.
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shamanamba
The Shaman



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: OnePerEyeM8]
#15165450 - 10/02/11 05:45 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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it didn't really seem to make a difference, what with having bunk spores and all lol. yea i finally figured it out and got a couple colonizing from a spore print I made.
-------------------- The Shaman
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The Influence
Free Sheeks



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Re: Not even a hint to colonization 5 days after inoculation (BRF cakes) [Re: shamanamba]
#15165637 - 10/02/11 07:30 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
shamanamba said: got a couple colonizing from a spore print I made.
Glad to hear that man Betterluck with these
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