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OfflineRonoS
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Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds?
    #1507357 - 04/30/03 01:06 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Apparently there is contradicting evidence as to who actually gassed 5000 Kurds in 1988. Most people (including users at this site) believe that it was indeed Saddam who gassed his own people with Sarin gas...now don't get me wrong..since Saddam DID use chemical weapons back then, and so did Iraq. My issue is that Iran was well known for using Sarin gas, while Iraq favoured Mustard gas. A study after the incident revealed that it was most likely Iran that accidentally gassed the Kurds...but statements made by the Clinton AND Bush administration say that it was indeed Iraq that gassed it's own people.

Which do you believe and why?...please show your sources.

I will include a poll in this just to see where people stand on this. ('m pretty sure I have a good idea already though)


Who gassed the Kurds in 1988?
Iraq
Iran





Votes accepted from (12/31/69 07:00 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds? [Re: Rono]
    #1507378 - 04/30/03 01:14 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Now you've cramped my style, moving me to another folder.  :tongue:  Here's an article I'd like you to read, it pretty much sums up what I've been unable to articulate.  http://hnn.us/articles/1242.html

"Apparently there is contradicting evidence as to who actually gassed 5000 Kurds in 1988."

WHAT contradicting evidence? I havent seen a thing, except for that one article.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1507438 - 04/30/03 01:36 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

That page does present some good points that show that Iraq did indeed gas the Kurds...but it also presents evidence that it wasn't Iraq (which would leave the only other logical choice..Iran)

"Beginning at night on Thursday, March 16, and extending into Friday, March 17, 1988, the city of Halabja (population 70,000), was bombarded with twenty chemical and cluster bombs. Photographs show dead children in the street with lunch pails. An estimated 5,000 persons died. Although some analysts say the gas used was hydrogen cyanide (not in Iraq's arsenal), others have suggested it might have been sarin, VX, and tabun. Iraq is known to have these agents. "

I would say that the evidence is still inconclusive at best


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (04/30/03 01:55 PM)


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds? [Re: Rono]
    #1507466 - 04/30/03 01:52 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I'll agree with inconclusive. Thank you for enlightening me a bit, It was fun....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1507478 - 04/30/03 01:59 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

This is how debates in this forum should be...point and counterpoint...until both parties can at least find common ground. The hard part is admitting that our hard held beliefs are wrong or inaccurate. I am often guilty of this, but I am making an effort to change this...

(p.s....I STILL think Dubya is a complete prick...some things I will never bend on)


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineCeeEssGee
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Registered: 09/29/02
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Re: Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds? [Re: Rono]
    #1507838 - 04/30/03 03:44 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

There's nothing wrong with believing Bush is a prick. The problem is when people automatically assume that because they don't like him, he's responsible for everything bad in this world, based on absolutely nothing.



--------------------
Why, sirrah, why may a caudled fillhorse be deemed the brother to a hiren candle in the night? Withal, because a candle may be greased, yet a fillhorse be without a fat argier!


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds? [Re: CeeEssGee]
    #1507844 - 04/30/03 03:46 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Obviously there is plenty of information out there though to support my belief that he is a complete prick...(p.s. Clinton was a prick too...just not a complete prick"


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds? [Re: Rono]
    #1507898 - 04/30/03 04:01 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

It seems to me that anyone who runs for Government office without addressing any of the multitude of SERIOUS issues facing the country is a prick. None of them will....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1507922 - 04/30/03 04:06 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Too true...empty promises are not party specific.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Offlinearabmobster
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Re: Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds? [Re: Rono]
    #1507935 - 04/30/03 04:10 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

i think the Americans & British did it


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Anonymous

Re: Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds? [Re: arabmobster]
    #1508026 - 04/30/03 04:40 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

classic.


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InvisibleBuddha5254
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Re: Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds? [Re: Rono]
    #1508353 - 04/30/03 06:11 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

US supported Iraq during Iran-Iraq war
Iraq gassed the Kurds, not just in Halabja
The Reagan administration initially announced it was the Iranians, and later retracted the statements. You want sources? Or is Human RIghts watch not a worthy source?
www.hrw.org/reports/1993/iraqanfal/
It was a big campaign against the Kurds, to kill them and remove them so Sunnis could come in.
I cant even believe this is even being debated.


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InvisibleBuddha5254
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Re: Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1508354 - 04/30/03 06:12 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

inconclusive? follow my link for some education.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds? [Re: Rono]
    #1508370 - 04/30/03 06:17 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

It was GW's doing, after all, everything else is his fault.

:grin:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineI_Fart_Blue
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Re: Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1508378 - 04/30/03 06:18 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

No, it was Klin-ton. Duuuuuh!


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"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds? [Re: Rono]
    #1508461 - 04/30/03 06:42 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Iraq had a right to gas the Kurds if he wanted to.

They are people living in his own country who joined a foreign army and  took up arms against their own government and military. 

Maybe it wasnt a verry tactfull thing to do but it was war.

Tell ya the truth, I dont know who was responsible.  Scientists, foreign agentcies and highly trusted people say it was more likely Iran that did it and then you have the US president saying that it was Iraq...

:confused: :confused:


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds? [Re: GabbaDj]
    #1508564 - 04/30/03 07:12 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"Scientists, foreign agentcies and highly trusted people say it was more likely Iran"

WHO!? Does anyone have ANY evidence that it was Iran, other than a 10 year old report by the War College? Anyone 't all?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleBuddha5254
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Re: Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1508940 - 04/30/03 09:39 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

There is no credible evidence pointing to Iran. Did any one read the Human RIghts watch document I linked to? This was part of a big campaign, and was one of MANY gassings. I just linked to a huge fucking document.
Also, it may be true they rebelled with the help of Iranians, but that is no fucking excuse to commit genocide by forcible evictions and gassings, and shootings, and bussing people to the desert to die..............


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds? [Re: Buddha5254]
    #1509386 - 04/30/03 11:49 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Agreed Buddha, We have a bunch of links in the other folder on this discussion too. What was it? Like, 58 times that Saddam used gas?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Who do you believe was responsible for gassing the Kurds? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1509478 - 05/01/03 12:08 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Did Iraq use gas?...without a doubt...but so did Iran.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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