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InvisibleCracka_X
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Another suicide bombing
    #1505955 - 04/29/03 10:28 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Damn extremists


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1506006 - 04/29/03 10:47 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Homicide bombers are scumbag pussies.... pure and simple.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1506012 - 04/29/03 10:49 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I'd agree with scumbags but pussies? Not really. I'm sure if they had high tech fancy weapons they would be more than happy to use them. Especially if using an apache would brand them as a hero!


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #1506058 - 04/29/03 11:10 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Pussies deliberately target innocents. I stand by the term pussies.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1506072 - 04/29/03 11:17 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I can empathize with the Palestinians, but I can in no way condone what they do.

However, I dont see how Israel bulldozing the homes of the FAMILIES of those who commit such acts will further the peace process or do anything but create more violence.

Honestly, I've given up hope for Middle East peace. Neither side WANTS peace. I dont know what it will take, but I sure hope they find it someday....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Anonymous

Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1506083 - 04/29/03 11:23 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"Pussies deliberately target innocents. I stand by the term pussies."

are we pussies for dropping atomic bombs on cities?


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OfflineCeeEssGee
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1506085 - 04/29/03 11:24 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

The Israelis took their shit for too long. There should have been more control in Palestine, but there just wasn't, because no one cared. Well, now that Israel told them "enough is enough", NOW they care, and they have no control. Fuck them, peace is great to dream about, but in the real world, you don't let your country and family members die because of politics, and peace.


--------------------
Why, sirrah, why may a caudled fillhorse be deemed the brother to a hiren candle in the night? Withal, because a candle may be greased, yet a fillhorse be without a fat argier!


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1506296 - 04/30/03 12:54 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

The Palestinians have no other means of resistance against Israeli tyranny. Instead they target zionists, as opposed to the hard-to-kill Israeli soldier. However, terrorism is not a solution and this recent bombing was pretty pointless considering how closer the Palestinians are moving towards statehood. This bombing though was probably extremely difficult for them to pull off but they did it.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: CeeEssGee]
    #1506301 - 04/30/03 12:55 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Hey, IES!


--------------------


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InvisibleMeat_Log_Smurf
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Zahid]
    #1506595 - 04/30/03 03:06 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Uh those arent suicide bombing they are genocide bombings. Palistinians bombers are peices of shit.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1506890 - 04/30/03 07:47 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

However, I dont see how Israel bulldozing the homes of the FAMILIES of those who commit such acts will further the peace process or do anything but create more violence




But ya gotta admit, it is effective. Maybe people should think before they consider blowing up people in the name of "fill in the blank".

Homocide bombers are the scum of the Earth.

Quote:

I don't know what it will take




total annihilation of one side or the other, unfortunately


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineyelimS
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: ]
    #1506893 - 04/30/03 07:50 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

most definately.


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Anonymous

Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1506906 - 04/30/03 07:59 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

total annihilation of one side or the other, unfortunately




Sad, but very true.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1506928 - 04/30/03 08:32 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, I dont see how Israel bulldozing the homes of the FAMILIES of those who commit such acts will further the peace process or do anything but create more violence


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



But ya gotta admit, it is effective. Maybe people should think before they consider blowing up people in the name of "fill in the blank".

Homocide bombers are the scum of the Earth.





Ummm are we labouring undetr the misapprehension that the Israelis only bulldoze the homes of people with links to the bombers?? Wrong.

Those evil fucks driving bulldozers through peoples lives are also the "scum of the earth"


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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Offlinegrib
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: CeeEssGee]
    #1506933 - 04/30/03 08:42 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Israelis took their shit for too long.




Didn't the Zionists (read: Israelis) steal the land from the Palestinians with the help of the British Empire? If that is the case, haven't the Palestinians taken $h!t for too long? Suicide bombings targeting civilians is wrong. On the other side, targeting soldiers would seem to be legitimate military targets.


--------------------
<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: grib]
    #1506940 - 04/30/03 08:51 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

People who make statements like:

"The Israelis took their shit for too long."

Normally havent taken the time or trouble to discover the ins and outs of the situation. Then also normally bleat on about UN resolutions relating to Iraq blissfully unaware of the hypocrisy they are spouting!


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: GazzBut]
    #1506941 - 04/30/03 08:51 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ummm are we labouring undetr the misapprehension that the Israelis only bulldoze the homes of people with links to the bombers?? Wrong.




can you tell me the REAL reason then? I'm serious because i don't know. If it turns out that the people had ANY part of the bombings then i support it 100%.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1507004 - 04/30/03 09:55 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"But ya gotta admit, it is effective. Maybe people should think before they consider blowing up people in the name of "fill in the blank"."

Its effective? Really? I seem to see MORE and BIGGER bombings now than before they institued this policy. All the policy, which I'll outline below, does is spread anger and resentment, and allow Israelis to feel a small measure of revenge.

"can you tell me the REAL reason then? I'm serious because i don't know. If it turns out that the people had ANY part of the bombings then i support it 100%."

Although Israel often bulldozes any settlement it deems out-of-bounds, this is the action I was reffering too, in a quote from ABCNews.com

Israel's Supreme Court has ruled in favor of a policy which allows the Israeli military to bulldoze the family homes of suspected terrorists. Since many of those targeted by Israeli army intelligence officers are teenagers still living at home with parents and siblings, the tactic has shifted the burden of the crime from the individual to the family.

If you are zealous and extreme enough in your beliefs to want to blow yourself up, do you really think your families home being destroyed is going to be a deterrent?

And just let me say once more, that I despise suicide/homicide bombings, I am in NO WAY justifying what they do.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1507068 - 04/30/03 10:37 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

All the policy, which I'll outline below, does is spread anger and resentment, and allow Israelis to feel a small measure of revenge.




So do the homocide bombings. I guarentee that the bulldozings will stop if the bombings do. I dare one of you to say that the bombings will stop if the bulldozing does...you can't because they won't stop.

Quote:

Israel's Supreme Court has ruled in favor of a policy which allows the Israeli military to bulldoze the family homes of suspected terrorists. Since many of those targeted by Israeli army intelligence officers are teenagers still living at home with parents and siblings, the tactic has shifted the burden of the crime from the individual to the family.




I'm failing to see the down side here....

Quote:

If you are zealous and extreme enough in your beliefs to want to blow yourself up, do you really think your families home being destroyed is going to be a deterrent?




maybe the parents should be doing their job and not praise homocide.

Quote:

And just let me say once more, that I despise suicide/ homicide bombings, I am in NO WAY justifying what they do.




which side do you suppose would stop if the other side did? I bet you Isreal would stop first. Do you think they will stop when the palestinians get their own state? I know it won't.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1507100 - 04/30/03 11:05 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,520257,00.html
http://www.israel-state-terrorism.org/israelibulldozing.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/rafah1.html - (An article by an Israeli)

The articles given here point to some of the reasons being i) Furtherment of illegal Israeli settlements ii)Reprisals for Palestinian actions N.B not targeted at specific people linked to any specific crime.


Even if it was directed in some way, would you still say it was fair to bulldoze down the house of a bombers family? How do you know the wife and children didnt beg him not to do it, were against him doing it? I know many Palestinians see it as a glorious act etc but you cant label all Palestinians because of it. Some Americans think wearing white cloaks and burning "niggers" property is acceptable behaviour. Surely you can see the flaw in the logic which implies all Americans think this is acceptable behaviour?


--------------------
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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1507103 - 04/30/03 11:06 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"I'm failing to see the down side here...."

C'mon? So we should have put Tim Mcveighs entire family out of a home? Or, why stop there! Lets just shoot the old fuckers! Really, WHAT purpose does this serve?

However, I am in agreement when you say that bombings wouldnt stop if bulldozing did. Neither side is going to be happy until the other is GONE. Not in its own state, GONE. But I think your placing the blame more on Palestinians...I cant agree, its more like, 50/50.

"I guarentee that the bulldozings will stop if the bombings do."

Whoops, just caught this gem. I dont know if you recall, but there was a span of a bunch of years between the rashes of suicide bombings. RELATIVE peace. The main cause of it starting again was when Israel BEGAN bulldozing settlements all over the country to make room for their people.

"you can't because they won't stop."

The bulldozing? Agreed....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1507105 - 04/30/03 11:07 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

So do the homocide bombings. I guarentee that the bulldozings will stop if the bombings do. I dare one of you to say that the bombings will stop if the bulldozing does...you can't because they won't stop.




You can gaurentee it can you? hmmm I wouldnt be so sure Inny.


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Offlinegrib
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1507158 - 04/30/03 11:40 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Israel's Supreme Court has ruled in favor of a policy which allows the Israeli military to bulldoze the family homes of suspected terrorists. Since many of those targeted by Israeli army intelligence officers are teenagers still living at home with parents and siblings, the tactic has shifted the burden of the crime from the individual to the family.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I'm failing to see the down side here....




You fail to see the down-side? Lets use the United States for my example: little Johnny has an ounce of mushrooms in his room at grandmas house. Little Johnny's friend snitches on him to the police. The police come and raid little Johnny's grandmas house. Busted. Get out grandma, the house now belongs to the state. No problem with that either huh? It's a similar situation except, unlike the Israeli government, the US government usually doesn't murder the family.


--------------------
<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1507259 - 04/30/03 12:27 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

C'mon? So we should have put Tim Mcveighs entire family out of a home?




ofcourse not, we don't have a problem here in the united states with constant homocide bombings. They are fighting a war over there. Besides it's Isreal NOT the united states.

Quote:

But I think your placing the blame more on Palestinians...I cant agree, its more like, 50/50.




With every action there is a reaction. Isreal, as a standard operating procedure, doesn't just go in and bulldoze innocent people. I don't dislike the palastinians at all. I do however think that the ones who approve of the homocide bombers are expendable.

Quote:

Whoops, just caught this gem. I dont know if you recall, but there was a span of a bunch of years between the rashes of suicide bombings. RELATIVE peace. The main cause of it starting again was when Israel BEGAN bulldozing settlements all over the country to make room for their people.




Gem? I don't think so. You cannot claim that the bombings started because of the bulldozing because the bombers are, or at least it's been said, said to be against the "illegal" occupation of palastinian land. Which one is it? Can we just agree that they hate the jews because they are jews? or am i off base?

Quote:

The bulldozing? Agreed....




i'd be willing to place a bet you are wrong if that were possible.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: GazzBut]
    #1507275 - 04/30/03 12:34 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Even if it was directed in some way, would you still say it was fair to bulldoze down the house of a bombers family?




yes. see my previous post when ans where i think it's appropriate. They are being bombed often and it's a war after all.

Quote:

How do you know the wife and children didnt beg him not to do it,




because they could of reported it.

Quote:

I know many Palestinians see it as a glorious act etc but you cant label all Palestinians because of it.




I never said ALL. In the future when i'm discussing Muslims or palastinians, i'm referring to those that would be nutty enough to becoime an extremist.

Quote:

Some Americans think wearing white cloaks and burning "niggers" property is acceptable behaviour.




Some do. However i am not that some you speak of.

Quote:

Surely you can see the flaw in the logic which implies all Americans think this is acceptable behaviour?




you're putting words in my mouth. I never said ALL once. I don't hate like many do on this site. When i see a man of a different race or religion i don't say "hey he's not as good as me" or "how can i exploit their ignorance?" I give everyone and equal standing on their own merits, until they prove me wrong on an idividual basis.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: grib]
    #1507279 - 04/30/03 12:37 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

You fail to see the down-side? Lets use the United States for my example:




can't use the United States for example. Sorry but read the previous 2 post as to why. I'm not falling for that trap.

BTW: that was a very bad example even if it did apply to this situation



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1507286 - 04/30/03 12:39 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Can we just agree that they hate the jews because they are jews? or am i off base?"

Absolutely. No arguement. But I hate the cops because they are cops. I dont go out and blow myself up to kill them. You have to do alot of things to incite hatred that strong.



"You cannot claim that the bombings started because of the bulldozing because the bombers are, or at least it's been said, said to be against the "illegal" occupation of palastinian land."

Some, yes. But to blanket ALL of the bombings in that fashion? Quite often, you'll find that the bombing is in response to a specific act by Israel. Invading Refugee camps, assassinating leaders, etc. Hamas usually gives a reason, its not just "Hatred", or "Land Greediness"


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1507309 - 04/30/03 12:47 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Absolutely. No arguement. But I hate the cops because they are cops




You hate cops? Why would you hate cops? I can understand the bad ones but there are many out there that are just doing their job. I don't have the ability to hate anyone.

Quote:

You have to do alot of things to incite hatred that strong.




or be brainwashed enough to believe you'll get 72 virgins...

Quote:

Some, yes. But to blanket ALL of the bombings in that fashion?




fair enough...

Quote:

Quite often, you'll find that the bombing is in response to a specific act by Israel.




This is where it gets ugly. It can be said, and this is what i agree with, that when Isreal fights back the response is what is being responded to. (did that make sense?) it's just a bunch of "tag you're it" type of fighting that is started by the bombers.

Quote:

Hamas usually gives a reason, its not just "Hatred", or "Land Greediness"




I beg to differ. Everything Hamas does is routed through hatred. If not 100% then pretty close to it. Can anyone name a good thing that hamas has done? (i would like to know.)


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineProdijal_Son
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1507320 - 04/30/03 12:52 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Suicide bombers are no worse than flying planes over cities and accidentally killing innocent individuals. Do you know what has always happened to Palestinians groups that try to form some kind of cohesiveness? Their leaders, their parents, their brothers, their sisters, all of their homes, and their friends are destroyed and murdered. So, because their level of technology is less advanced than ours makes them pussies? Notice how in the papers they fail to mention the numbers of Iraqi civilian casualties taken in the present war, but they diligently post the those of the American and British. Freedom for America, degredation and dehumanizig double standards for those without oil.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Prodijal_Son]
    #1507338 - 04/30/03 12:58 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Suicide bombers are no worse than flying planes over cities and accidentally killing innocent individuals.




sure they are. America doesn't look for a concentration of civilians and say "lets drop the bomb there".

Quote:

Do you know what has always happened to Palestinians groups that try to form some kind of cohesiveness? Their leaders, their parents, their brothers, their sisters, all of their homes, and their friends are destroyed and murdered.




is that right? You might want to talk with Yasser Arafat then because the palastinian state just might be a reality (which i support)...sounds like they are becomming quite cohesive.

Quote:

So, because their level of technology is less advanced than ours makes them pussies?




I want you to find anywhere where i said they were pussies?

Quote:

Notice how in the papers they fail to mention the numbers of Iraqi civilian casualties taken in the present war




show me a war that didn't have civilian casualties. Besides it's nice to know that they store their weapons (iraq) next to schools.

Quote:

Freedom for America, degredation and dehumanizig double standards for those without oil.




ahhh, i was wondering when you were going to get to a point. The old....very old argument of it's all aboot oil...now we get to the meat of your reply.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinegrib
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1507352 - 04/30/03 01:03 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Way to evade!

Anyway, I'm not trying to change yours nor anyone else's mind. My examples are mine and I believe they are valid. Take them for what they are.


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<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: grib]
    #1507359 - 04/30/03 01:07 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Way to evade!




why would i evade, you're comparison is not even close to reality. If you want to know why read my previous posts in this thread.

Quote:

Anyway, I'm not trying to change yours nor anyone else's mind. My examples are mine and I believe they are valid.




i'm glad you're taking credit for them, heaven knows i don't.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1507364 - 04/30/03 01:08 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"Can anyone name a good thing that hamas has done? (i would like to know.)"

Heres a article on NewsMax.com

"Filling a void left by Arafat?s inept regime, Hamas has long provided schools, medical clinics, childcare, food subsidies, labor exchanges, and even cash welfare payments to the destitute residents of Gaza and the West Bank. All these services to the poor are provided irrespective of political affiliation."

Not that I'm claiming Hamas is a great group of guys, Just saying that what the mass media says isnt the entire story.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1507368 - 04/30/03 01:11 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

thanks, i actually wanted to know. All we hear is the bad things (and they've earned them all). It sounds similar to the situation in Cuba, lousy economy, great schools.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1507385 - 04/30/03 01:17 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Heh, or the American Ghetto...Great economy w/ the boys on the corner, but the floors falling out schools..


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1507394 - 04/30/03 01:20 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

i'd like to discuss the school situation but it would be off-topic. I like discussing the terrible american public school situation.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1507406 - 04/30/03 01:23 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I'd just like to take a moment to say how much I love this whole forum...You all (mostly) have a head on your shoulders, and are actually extremely good at debating your points. Kudos to you all.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlinegrib
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1507429 - 04/30/03 01:34 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

i'm glad you're taking credit for them, heaven knows i don't. 




errr, why would you? You didn't write them...

Your arguments tend to sound like one side of the dialogue from the warmonger - peacenik thread.

**edit:  :grin: :grin: :grin: 


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<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


Edited by grib (04/30/03 01:36 PM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: grib]
    #1507463 - 04/30/03 01:51 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Your arguments tend to sound like one side of the dialogue from the warmonger - peacenik thread.




the difference being is that i make sense.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineJohnnyRespect
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: GazzBut]
    #1507580 - 04/30/03 02:35 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

IF people think that Israel is to blame, they need to read the details of the Clinton lead peace talks.  The Palestineans were going to be granted EVERY SINGLE concession they asked for, except having total control fo Jerusalem.  Yasser Terr-a-fat said no.  If you look at Arafats head dress, he wears it in a fashion that shows the "map" of palestine.  If you look at it (I know it sounds stupid, but it's his idea) it's a map that includes ALL of Isreal.  Most of the Arab maps don't include isael at all, they list it as palestine.  The Palestineans, and the Arab world, want a Palestine with an Eastern border of the Med sea, they want Isreal and the jews gone. That is why their is no peace..


Of course, if someoen came in, took my land, said it was theres, and ordered me around, I'd be a bit on the upset side too :smile:




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OfflineCeeEssGee
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: grib]
    #1507809 - 04/30/03 03:35 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"Didn't the Zionists (read: Israelis) steal the land from the Palestinians with the help of the British Empire? If that is the case, haven't the Palestinians taken $h!t for too long? Suicide bombings targeting civilians is wrong. On the other side, targeting soldiers would seem to be legitimate military targets. "

Actually, they claimed empty swamp land, and cleaned it out. When they took it, no one was inhabiting it. It wasn't until after they cleaned it up and inhabited that the surrounding area started bitching.


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OfflineCeeEssGee
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: GazzBut]
    #1507824 - 04/30/03 03:41 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"People who make statements like:

"The Israelis took their shit for too long."

Normally havent taken the time or trouble to discover the ins and outs of the situation. Then also normally bleat on about UN resolutions relating to Iraq blissfully unaware of the hypocrisy they are spouting! "

People who make statements like this do not actually want to back up what they say, just incite a flame war, because they disagree. I have taken the time, even visited Israel, and I know that Israel is not blameless, nor are their opposition, but Israel did very little for a long time. Look, Israel has the power to spread...fast. The US wouldn't be able to stop them. They are going easy, considering what they can very well do, and what certainly is warranted.


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Why, sirrah, why may a caudled fillhorse be deemed the brother to a hiren candle in the night? Withal, because a candle may be greased, yet a fillhorse be without a fat argier!


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Offlinegrib
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: CeeEssGee]
    #1507975 - 04/30/03 04:23 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Actually, they claimed empty swamp land, and cleaned it out. When they took it, no one was inhabiting it. It wasn't until after they cleaned it up and inhabited that the surrounding area started bitching.





Using that logic: I should be able to go and claim un-used land too. Ownership doesn't matter. Correct?


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<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


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Invisiblewingnutx

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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1508073 - 04/30/03 04:55 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Here's one of the victims. She was cute.



In Memory of Dominique (Caroline) Hess


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: wingnutx]
    #1508079 - 04/30/03 04:56 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I could post common pictures of Palestinian babies outside their homes demolished by Israel, lines of Palestinian men unable to work because Israel wont let them past the border, and Palestinian boys dead from Israeli rifles. Whats the point?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1508122 - 04/30/03 05:08 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Imagine France saying "Well, there's a big pocket of unused land in the USA. Let's create a new country there for ethnic group X cause we decide they need a new home." Funny shit.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Dogomush]
    #1508136 - 04/30/03 05:12 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Not so much a new country, since Israel existed way the fuck back in the day. But its silly to create an enclave for Jews in a place with such hostility to Jews. The Jews are Stubborn, the Palestinians are Angry AND Stubborn, and nobody will give...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1508334 - 04/30/03 06:06 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

yeah that's true.. they did used to have a country.. so how about giving native americans their own state, beyond a simple reservation.

The Haida would like to do that in Canada.. they're trying to get the Queen Charlotte Islands for themselves. That would be cool.


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Invisiblewingnutx

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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1508345 - 04/30/03 06:08 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think Palestinian boys are cute.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Dogomush]
    #1508496 - 04/30/03 06:51 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

yeah that's true.. they did used to have a country.. so how about giving native americans their own state, beyond a simple reservation.



Maybe the Palestinians should learn from the Native Americans and set up a bunch of Casinos.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: silversoul7]
    #1508521 - 04/30/03 06:57 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"Maybe the Palestinians should learn from the Native Americans and set up a bunch of Casinos. "

Only in America, does money heal all wounds.....



--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1508817 - 04/30/03 08:55 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Not so much a new country, since Israel existed way the fuck back in the day. But its silly to create an enclave for Jews in a place with such hostility to Jews. The Jews are Stubborn, the Palestinians are Angry AND Stubborn, and nobody will give...




There isn't a hostility embeded in the culture of Arab people. Long ago, decades before the actual creation of Israel Arabs and Jews would live in peace together, infact they were united by their "hatred" for the British. But as it became more and more apparent that a Jewish state would be created in Palestine, the shit slowly started to hit the fan.


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Edited by Zahid (04/30/03 08:56 PM)


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Dogomush]
    #1509892 - 05/01/03 02:24 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

yeah that's true.. they did used to have a country.. so how about giving native americans their own state, beyond a simple reservation.

Even better why not give the Israeli's a state in America where they could live in peace instead of the middle east?


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1510305 - 05/01/03 04:23 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Even if it was directed in some way, would you still say it was fair to bulldoze down the house of a bombers family?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



yes. see my previous post when ans where i think it's appropriate. They are being bombed often and it's a war after all.





Well Inny it isnt directed anyway and it has alot to do with expanding illegal Jewish settlements. Do you still agree with it?

Quote:

I never said ALL. In the future when i'm discussing Muslims or palastinians, i'm referring to those that would be nutty enough to becoime an extremist.





In future when referring to Americans I am referring to those who are members of the KKK. Get it?


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: wingnutx]
    #1510485 - 05/01/03 06:57 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Shall we drag out some pictures of palestinian children who have been killed by Israelis terrorists? yawn....


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1510487 - 05/01/03 06:58 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Not so much a new country, since Israel existed way the fuck back in the day.




Yes but it wasnt populated by Europeans and Americans as it is now. Thats the salient point people seem to miss when they use that arguement to justify Israel's "rights".


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: GazzBut]
    #1510497 - 05/01/03 07:06 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

In future when referring to Americans I am referring to those who are members of the KKK




that made absolutly no sense.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1510548 - 05/01/03 08:24 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

IF people think that Israel is to blame, they need to read the details of the Clinton lead peace talks. The Palestineans were going to be granted EVERY SINGLE concession they asked for, except having total control fo Jerusalem.




I think you will find the peace deal did not return the borders to those pre-1967. If Arafat had accepted that he would have been seen as weak by his people. If he was really awkward he could ask for the borders to be returned to those of 1948.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: CeeEssGee]
    #1510552 - 05/01/03 08:28 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

People who make statements like this do not actually want to back up what they say,




When did Israel first take Palestinian land that was not theirs to take under international law?

Ive been to Greece but I know little of their political situation.....

Quote:

They are going easy, considering what they can very well do, and what certainly is warranted.







Sounds like a threat. Would you care to expand on that?


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1510555 - 05/01/03 08:29 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"In the future when i'm discussing Muslims or palastinians, i'm referring to those that would be nutty enough to becoime an extremist."

Do you even realise how you self program yourself with ill thought out statements like that?


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: GazzBut]
    #1510559 - 05/01/03 08:37 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Do you even realise how you self program yourself with ill thought out statements like that?




Actually i think it's you that programs yourself to counter every rational statement. Either way let me clarify myself. When we're talking about the problems between Homocide bombers and Isreal, my distaste is for the Radical Muslims and not the "Peace-loving" muslims civilians. I thought this was clear but apparantly if i don't say this every three seconds it loses its meaning.


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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1510562 - 05/01/03 08:39 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Try saying what you mean then Inny. Its the key to succesful communication!


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: GazzBut]
    #1510568 - 05/01/03 08:45 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

we exchange words all the time, i think i know where you stand as i HOPE you know where i stand...i was just trying to save time. I'm allowed to be lazy from time to time...sheesh.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1510763 - 05/01/03 10:58 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Innvertigo, a few days ago. You asked what was the downside of leveling the homes of Hamas terrorists? Here's a little excerpt from CNN.com today.

"At least seven Palestinians died -- including a two-year-old -- after Israeli forces entered Gaza City and blew up the house of a Hamas activist, said Palestinian security sources. Thursday's raid came a day after a suicide bomb in a Tel Aviv bar and the release by the U.S. of a "road map" for peace in the Middle East. "

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/05/01/mideast.violence/index.html
Now I know, Civilian casualties and all that. I understand and agree with that arguement. But they fucking BLEW UP the house. Was there not an easier way?

By the way, did any of you check out the "Road Map for Peace"? Betcha the whole thing is down the tube in a month....


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1510848 - 05/01/03 11:25 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

"At least seven Palestinians died -- including a two-year-old -- after Israeli forces entered Gaza City and blew up the house of a Hamas activist, said Palestinian security sources. Thursday's raid came a day after a suicide bomb in a Tel Aviv bar and the release by the U.S. of a "road map" for peace in the Middle East. "




where did you find this quote? I can't seem to find the article attached to it. It's not part of that link.

Quote:

Now I know, Civilian casualties and all that. I understand and agree with that arguement. But they fucking BLEW UP the house. Was there not an easier way?




easier than blowing up the house? How should i know, i wasn't there. I read the article and it only mentions that a 2-year-old was killed but doesn't give the circumstances so i can't say if it could of been avoided. According to that article the Palastinians started firing first so you know what my response would be.

BTW i like how you present your information, at least you don't try to stretch it into something it isn't. It seems to be practiced quite a bit in these forums.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1510936 - 05/01/03 11:51 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Bah. I was at the full story when I put the link, the quote I put was the "attention getter" on this page...

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/



--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Invisiblewingnutx

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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: GazzBut]
    #1511003 - 05/01/03 12:12 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Only if they're hot.

Turns out the bombers were British citizens, btw.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1511045 - 05/01/03 12:30 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I wasn't questioning the source but that article never even brought up the 2 year-old except for the title. Titles are written by the editors, not the writers, so it looked a little wierd.

why do you think that was?


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Xlea321]
    #1511091 - 05/01/03 12:50 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

yeah that's true.. they did used to have a country.. so how about giving native americans their own state, beyond a simple reservation.

Even better why not give the Israeli's a state in America where they could live in peace instead of the middle east?


It already exists, its called Palm Beach County, FL.


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Re: Another suicide bombing [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1511550 - 05/01/03 03:56 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Here's a decent analysis from Time magazine --
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,448355,00.html?cnn=yes

pinky



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