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OfflineLightShedder
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Just learned about Alfred Russell Wallace
    #15054786 - 09/09/11 08:31 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

This guy discovered evolution. Google him.


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OfflineAstroShroomer
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Re: Just learned about Alfred Russell Wallace [Re: LightShedder]
    #15054815 - 09/09/11 08:38 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Actually, he independently discovered natural selection...in a sense, a co-discoverer of evolution. His theory was no where near as comprehensive or exact as Charles Darwin's. Tales of these sorts are abound in science. Many discoveries happen independently and yet at the same time.


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"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
--Albert Einstein

"To see a World in a Grain of Sand,
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand,
And Eternity in an hour."
--William Blake

"The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win. Working Men of All Countries, Unite!"
--Marx & Engels, Communist Manifesto (1848)


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OfflineBaSSidio Head
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Re: Just learned about Alfred Russell Wallace [Re: AstroShroomer]
    #15054902 - 09/09/11 08:56 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Tis true.  I always wonder how much farther ahead in science if previous scientists would have known about each other at the time.  For example, Darwin and Mendel did their experiments around the same time, but Mendel's got lost for a good while.  If Darwin had collaborated his theories with genetic evidence presented by Mendel...:brilliant:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Just learned about Alfred Russell Wallace [Re: LightShedder]
    #15055019 - 09/09/11 09:17 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

I think you mean Anaximander, the ancient Greek philosopher who suggested that all animal sprang from the sea and evolved into different forms.  Or perhaps you mean Zhuangzi, the Taoist philosopher who wrote about the changing of one biological species into another.  Or perhaps you're looking more for the discoverer of natural selection, in which case you should look at Al-Jahiz, a Muslim philosopher and biologist who lived in what we now call Iraq during the 9th century.  It's interesting how evolutionary thought evolved rather than being one person's intelligent design.


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: Just learned about Alfred Russell Wallace [Re: Silversoul]
    #15055097 - 09/09/11 09:29 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for those interesting links. You just gave me topics to spend mynight reading bout....


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: Just learned about Alfred Russell Wallace [Re: LightShedder]
    #15055176 - 09/09/11 09:43 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Anaximander:

"Anaximander speculated about the beginnings and origin of animal life. Taking into account the existence of fossils, he claimed that animals sprang out of the sea long ago. The first animals were born trapped in a spiny bark, but as they got older, the bark would dry up and break.[37] As the early humidity evaporated, dry land emerged and, in time, humankind had to adapt.... Anaximander put forward the idea that humans had to spend part of this transition inside the mouths of big fish to protect themselves from the Earth's climate until they could come out in open air and lose their scales.[39] He thought that, considering humans' extended infancy, we could not have survived in the primeval world in the same manner we do presently. Even though he had no theory of artificial selection, some people consider him as evolutions most ancient proponent

Ah I don't know if I'd call that natural selection...

Wallace wrote about natural selection and introduced them to Darwin who was then influenced by wallaces theory as far as I understand.

Kinda big difference IMO. I'm still gonna read about the other 2 though...


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Just learned about Alfred Russell Wallace [Re: LightShedder]
    #15055274 - 09/09/11 10:04 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LightShedder said:
Anaximander:

"Anaximander speculated about the beginnings and origin of animal life. Taking into account the existence of fossils, he claimed that animals sprang out of the sea long ago. The first animals were born trapped in a spiny bark, but as they got older, the bark would dry up and break.[37] As the early humidity evaporated, dry land emerged and, in time, humankind had to adapt.... Anaximander put forward the idea that humans had to spend part of this transition inside the mouths of big fish to protect themselves from the Earth's climate until they could come out in open air and lose their scales.[39] He thought that, considering humans' extended infancy, we could not have survived in the primeval world in the same manner we do presently. Even though he had no theory of artificial selection, some people consider him as evolutions most ancient proponent

Ah I don't know if I'd call that natural selection...



I said evolution, not natural selection.  As I mentioned, the first to come up with a theory of natural selection was Al-Jahiz, a Muslim philosopher.

Quote:

Wallace wrote about natural selection and introduced them to Darwin who was then influenced by wallaces theory as far as I understand.



I think your understanding is flawed.  Darwin and Wallace came up with the same theory independently of one another.


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OfflineAstroShroomer
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Re: Just learned about Alfred Russell Wallace [Re: Silversoul]
    #15055481 - 09/09/11 10:40 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I said evolution, not natural selection.  As I mentioned, the first to come up with a theory of natural selection was Al-Jahiz, a Muslim philosopher.




To be exact, he came up with a philosophical/poetic idea of natural selection. The scientific theory of evolution by natural selection was not realized until Charles Darwin. He provided the scientific basis as well as (and more importantly) the evidence of the existence of evolution by natural selection.


--------------------
"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
--Albert Einstein

"To see a World in a Grain of Sand,
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand,
And Eternity in an hour."
--William Blake

"The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win. Working Men of All Countries, Unite!"
--Marx & Engels, Communist Manifesto (1848)


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: Just learned about Alfred Russell Wallace [Re: Silversoul]
    #15055692 - 09/09/11 11:24 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

LightShedder said:
Anaximander:

"Anaximander speculated about the beginnings and origin of animal life. Taking into account the existence of fossils, he claimed that animals sprang out of the sea long ago. The first animals were born trapped in a spiny bark, but as they got older, the bark would dry up and break.[37] As the early humidity evaporated, dry land emerged and, in time, humankind had to adapt.... Anaximander put forward the idea that humans had to spend part of this transition inside the mouths of big fish to protect themselves from the Earth's climate until they could come out in open air and lose their scales.[39] He thought that, considering humans' extended infancy, we could not have survived in the primeval world in the same manner we do presently. Even though he had no theory of artificial selection, some people consider him as evolutions most ancient proponent

Ah I don't know if I'd call that natural selection...



I said evolution, not natural selection.  As I mentioned, the first to come up with a theory of natural selection was Al-Jahiz, a Muslim philosopher.

Quote:

Wallace wrote about natural selection and introduced them to Darwin who was then influenced by wallaces theory as far as I understand.



I think your understanding is flawed.  Darwin and Wallace came up with the same theory independently of one another.




Wikipedia on Alfred Wallace: "He is best known for independently proposing a theory of evolution due to natural selection that prompted Charles Darwin to publish his own theory."

This is sorta confusing...


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: Just learned about Alfred Russell Wallace [Re: AstroShroomer]
    #15055723 - 09/09/11 11:32 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

AstroShroomer said:
Quote:

I said evolution, not natural selection.  As I mentioned, the first to come up with a theory of natural selection was Al-Jahiz, a Muslim philosopher.




To be exact, he came up with a philosophical/poetic idea of natural selection. The scientific theory of evolution by natural selection was not realized until Charles Darwin. He provided the scientific basis as well as (and more importantly) the evidence of the existence of evolution by natural selection.




This is zhuangzis page...
In Chapter 18, Zhuangzi also mentions life forms have an innate ability or power (hua 化) to transform and adapt to their surroundings. While his writings don't give any solid evidence or mechanism of biological evolution, such as those of Alfred Wallace and Charles Darwin do, his idea about the transformation of life from simple to more complex forms could be seen as being along the same line of thought. Zhuangzi further mentioned that humans are also subject to this process as humans are a part of nature.[7]

It claims that Wallace provides evidence as well as Darwin, though I haven't read it myself...


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OfflineAstroShroomer
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Re: Just learned about Alfred Russell Wallace [Re: LightShedder]
    #15055749 - 09/09/11 11:37 PM (9 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Wikipedia on Alfred Wallace: "He is best known for independently proposing a theory of evolution due to natural selection that prompted Charles Darwin to publish his own theory."

This is sorta confusing...




Understandably. That is not the best way (though completely accurate) to word what happened. It is a series complex issues (religious, familial, and professional) that caused Darwin to not publish his theory and evidence before that time. He had his theory completely worked out and all evidences presented in his manuscript long before Wallace wrote him about his own theory. Once Darwin received the letter and realized that one way or another this theory would be out in the public, he decided to publish his work and let the chips fall where they may.


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