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OfflineRustik
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Registered: 04/18/03
Posts: 289
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
When does an abnormality become normal!?
    #1504784 - 04/29/03 04:36 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I see some posts concerning ADHD, and I hear about it all the freaking time..

So many parents these days are putting their kids on Riddlin (sp?) and other drugs to 'fix' the problem that, imo, was never there to begin with!

Kids will be kids!! If your child isn't doing well in school, maybe it's because they HATE SCHOOL! When I was in school, I always did well, but I paid the price for it... Always getting picked on and called a nerd thru middle school.. Kids are pressured NOT to be smart these days, and there is very little incentive for them to actually put forth any effort.

I think there are too many doctors wiling to hand out these medications to kids regardless of whether they actually have a disorder or not.

It seems to me that if there are SO many kids with ADHD, maybe it's not a DISorder after all!! Maybe it's freaking NORMAL for a kid! I'm sure there are some legit cases of children with actual learning disorders, but COME ON! What's the figure, anyone know? Something like 1 out of 3 kids has the disorder?

Maybe 1 out of 3 kids just tries to be a kid more than the others that have been brainwashed by society....

My two cents, if you are a parent, DON'T put your children on meds for no reason!


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: When does an abnormality become normal!? [Re: Rustik]
    #1504804 - 04/29/03 04:42 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

You nicely summarized my own personal thoughts RE ADHD........i think the bottom line is kids being exposed to dry, uninteresteing and utter meaningles ciriculum by uninspired unimpassioned teachers, the perfect recipe for academic ennui, i think if i had a kid that i'd be worried if he/she or it COULD pay attention to that nonsense, good post


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OfflineRustik
Where am I?

Registered: 04/18/03
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Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: When does an abnormality become normal!? [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1506189 - 04/30/03 12:12 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I feel sorry for kids these days.. Poor little buggers gotta put up with so much more crap than most of us ever had to.


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OfflineScumBagMaximum
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Re: When does an abnormality become normal!? [Re: Rustik]
    #1506231 - 04/30/03 12:27 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I have ADD, I take adderal and when I take it at schol I can tell I do better when I'm on it


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OfflineRustik
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Registered: 04/18/03
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Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: When does an abnormality become normal!? [Re: ScumBagMaximum]
    #1506291 - 04/30/03 12:53 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

That's becuase it numbs your brain and makes you easier to brainwash...

Or maybe not.  :smile: 


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: When does an abnormality become normal!? [Re: Rustik]
    #1506659 - 04/30/03 03:54 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

ADHD/ADD...

I really believe there genuinely is such a thing. When I was an adolescent I knew two other kids diagnosed to have it, it really was new back then I believe. Both were on Ritalin. Sans pharms they both were kid versions of Louis de F?nes shooting like speeding bullets all across school & no concentration whatsoever. Both (no offence to anyone intended) were complete and utter bastards in that they dominated social situations and tried to bully whomever they could. In other words: these two kids were extremely restless and could not concentrate on schoolwork at all.

Then came the big rubber stamp: BAM! "ADHD" and out came the Rit. The boy who was least affected by hyperactivity responded by growing calmer and more focused. He was glad to recieve the stuff and everybody agreed those 10mgs genuinely helped. The more hyperactive one reacted to Rit like they had shoved a habanero pepper up his ass: a typical "high on speed" reaction. Highly dysphoric for himself and the people around him but "Just shut up and take it cause you've got the ADHD"

Long story short. That a vast minority (say the 33% of kids mentioned in this thread) has ADHD/ADD seems to me like full of crap. I do believe some kids genuinely have it (that the disorder does exist) and that a diagnostic test thereof is improvement on Ritalin, but also that alot of beneficial responders do NOT have the disorder, or long story short I BELIEVE:
1...Respond positively to Ritalin = might have ADHD
2...Negative response to Ritalin = probably not ADHD

Ritalin is serious stuff, it being a cocaine analogue (dopamine reuptake inhibitor) and not an amphetamine like it most often is assumed. The combination of Ritalin + Developing Brain sounds very dangerous to me. But in my view any kid that's abit restless or kinda refuses the crap dished out to him (as said: kids will be kids) seems to get stamped "ADHD/ADD" these days and are basically on pharms to relieve the kid-allergy of their parents and teachers. Giving any restless kid or one that's quite different from others strong pharms seems like a good way to snuff out the Mozarts, Einsteins and Rembrandts of an entire generation.

Schoolstuff caters to the RATIONAL side of the brain. A kid not good in this may be stamped to have a "attention deficit disorder" but may in fact be daydreaming, which is making use of the CREATIVE side of the brain. Now the first usually yields professors and engineers among their finest, but almost all artists (music, artworks, poetry/writing etc.) were inclined as kids to have their attention wander off from the rational path in favor of creative/fantasy stuff.

My opinion in short:
1..Very few kids genuinely have ADHD ( I guess one in twenty at most)
2..Most who've got it are wrongfully misdiagnosed
3..Pharms like Ritalin do more harm than good in at least the non-ADHD kids
4..That you can't focus on the usual stuff may in fact mean you're involved into other thoughtpatterns that may be beneficial to you+society in the long run
5..Parents + teachers should try to bear with kids rather than instinctively cram strong pharmaceuticals up their throats, but
6..Some kids genuinely are better off on pharms and these are the only ones who should get them.


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: When does an abnormality become normal!? [Re: Rustik]
    #1506682 - 04/30/03 04:14 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I feel sorry for kids these days.. Poor little buggers gotta put up with so much more crap than most of us ever had to.:


Most of the ones i talk to have more school/homework to do in a night than i ever did in a week....(admittedly i wasn't totally commited to the pursuit of academic excellence :grin:) but it's sorta sad to talk to people that are suicidal cauz they just can't deal with the workload :frown: 


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InvisibleTackleBerry
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Registered: 09/17/02
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Re: When does an abnormality become normal!? [Re: Rustik]
    #1506737 - 04/30/03 05:10 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I believe most of the problem has to do with little or no discipline. Parents these days are not even aloud to spank their children. When I was in school teachers weren't afraid to wack you with a ruler.

Now days none of these disciplinary actions can be taken thus children don't learn the way we did.(I don't speak for everyone when I say that)

So what better way to stop a bunch of normal children from doing what they do best, being children, by giving drugs to them. Making it easier for parents and teachers to deal with them with no need for harse disciplinary actions.

Sorry to say but I like the way I grew up better than this shit. When we were being bad my mom would break out the wooden spoon, and we knew damn well if we fucked off again there was a paddlin comin. My mom was proud of that wooden spoon, that spoon kept me and my brothers and sisters in line until we grew up.

Now days that disciplinary action is unheard of and you could find yourself in jail for doing it. Why risk going to jail when you can calm your kids down with dope.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: When does an abnormality become normal!? [Re: TackleBerry]
    #1506745 - 04/30/03 05:22 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I think ADD/ADHD is a sham..

I was diagnosed with ADD, but I'm still convinced its simply a result of such a restless society


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Offlinedrop
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Re: When does an abnormality become normal!? [Re: Strumpling]
    #1506931 - 04/30/03 08:37 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I generally read the boards and dont speak up much, but I feel I should put in my two cents.

I have ADD. Beleive what you will, it has nothing to do with lack of discipline(I got my ass whooped alot.)
My parents dont do this to make it easier on them, they made it clear the adderall was only if I wanted to try it.
I figured why not, I started to evaluate my thought process while doing school work and I saw it's hard to keep my mind from wandering, whats on tv? what are my friends doing? whats my brother doing? It's hard to explain it, but I can definatly understand how people without ADD dont really think its a problem for some people.
School became 10x easier, I can honestly never remember a time before adderall when I could sit at home and do somehomework like I could on adderall. The hundred other things weren't crossing my mind I was just working on my homework.
I also beleive there is alot of mis-diagnoses, not really on purpose either. Imagine you have add/adhd your whole life it never crosses your mind that you concentrate worse than others. And the doctor has to take that into consideration when diagnosing, there is no fool-proof test. the current treatment's are crude, maybe when humanity learn's more about the brain a more effective diagnosis and treatment can be found.


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InvisibleFreakQlibrium
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Re: When does an abnormality become normal!? [Re: drop]
    #1507010 - 04/30/03 09:57 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

i'd have to agree with that Drop, from my own perspective anyway. i was "kid from hell" and i used to really get corporeally disciplined way more that your average delinquent, at home and especially at school. Absoulutely nothing detered me from my chosen path. i'm sure if i'd had been raised these days i'd be put on ritalin/adderall for sure.... i am SO damned glad i was able to act out all my most twisted impulses at an early age and get them out of my system without any kind of chemical suppressant(s.)....i was just being  kid as the originator of this post suggested :smile: 


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OfflineUrQuattro
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Re: When does an abnormality become normal!? [Re: FreakQlibrium]
    #1507263 - 04/30/03 12:28 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

in someone with actual add/adhd, it has nothing to do with discipline, it isnt the school, it isnt the parents, it isnt the fault of the kid.

it is simply the way that the child processes information. i dont know why that is such an offensive idea to some of you, but people think in fundamentally different ways.

most people are linear-audio learners. they tend to do well in school.

then there are some kids who are visual-spatial learners, they tend to not do well in school, because they simply have no ability to learn in the way that most schools teach. how do i know? because i am a visual-spatial learner, and i have more than enough intelligence to understand the information. it has to do with the presentation of the information, etc.

some kids are kinetic learners... that means that they have to literally move some part of their body in order to process information.

i could go on.. school is focused on teaching the first set of children... the rest tend to fall by the wayside.

im tired of people negating the legitimate problems that some of these kids have. if you cant understand it, fine, thenyou dont have add/adhd. but those of you who actually DO have it understand that it is very, very real.


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OfflineRustik
Where am I?

Registered: 04/18/03
Posts: 289
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: When does an abnormality become normal!? [Re: UrQuattro]
    #1549127 - 05/14/03 09:25 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

My opinion in short:
1..Very few kids genuinely have ADHD ( I guess one in twenty at most)
2..Most who've got it are wrongfully misdiagnosed
3..Pharms like Ritalin do more harm than good in at least the non-ADHD kids
4..That you can't focus on the usual stuff may in fact mean you're involved into other thoughtpatterns that may be beneficial to you+society in the long run
5..Parents + teachers should try to bear with kids rather than instinctively cram strong pharmaceuticals up their throats, but
6..Some kids genuinely are better off on pharms and these are the only ones who should get them.




I'm with you 100% there. More research needs to be done so that there aren't so many damn misdiagnosis (sp?).

It's just becoming a big problem these days. If a parent thinks their kid is mis-behaving "too much" or not being the little angel school-kid that they wanted, then they take 'em to the doctor. Many parents convince themselves that their kid has ADD/ADHD before ever seeing a doctor, and this only helps to perpetuate the situation.


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Offlinepseudopod
scattered,smothered,covered...

Registered: 03/02/03
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Re: When does an abnormality become normal!? [Re: Rustik]
    #1553607 - 05/16/03 10:44 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

I have a degree in psychology, for what it's worth (not much). I focused mainly on behavioral psychology and worked with children so I am naturally biased towards the anti-meds side for a majority of people that are diagnosed with learning difficulties. I also know what it is like to grow up LD. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

I have a hard time with all of this. On one hand I know how effective behavioral therapy can be. It frustrates me that more people don't have access to a decent therapist. But I also know how expensive this can get, and I'm also realistic enough to know that a kid with attention deficit isn't going to be able to focus long enough in the beginning to get any real work done, even if he/she is willing. ADD/ADHD has a neurochemical component that can definately be corrected by drugs like ritalin, and you know what they say...

if you can hear the symptoms,
but not affect the cause,
It's quite a bit like tryin' to heal
a gunshot wound with gauze.
if you instead attempt to rest,
the pistol from the hand,
then I would not be able to,
equate my life with sand.

When you're struggling, you become very pragmatic. The pills work, and there's no several-a-week sessions to deal with. A lot of people don't even know behavioral treatments are out there, believe it or not, and even if you do can your parents afford it?

I definately agree with most of what you guys are saying. It's a complicated issue. I personalIy chose to take the non-pharm route and for me, even though it has been hard it was the right choice.


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