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nice1
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More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin
#15016519 - 09/02/11 08:50 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Japanese physicists reported in December 1989 in the prestigious scientific journal Physical Review Letters that a gyroscope appeared to weigh less when spinning clockwise (as seen from above) than it did at rest, while staying the same weight when spinning counterclockwise.
The loss they reported was minuscule: five-thousandths of 1 percent of the resting weight, but still much bigger than could be explained by earlier theories of the effect spinning might have on gravity.
Some Russians physicists reported the same results and many independent scientists have also verified the reported anomaly.
Some government sponsored scientists claim to have tried the experiment and found no results and despite clearly needing more research the anomaly was successfully stigmatized and swept under the carpet.
No doubt the military scientists were eagerly finding out how to utilize the effect in some black project however.
Anyway just another of my the crazy things I've heard along the way but I'm sure I'm a "nut" and require a good ad homing as per usual round here but the real scientist out there knows what to do EXPERIMENT so hopefully I've inspired someone...
Its easy to copy but copying other peoples errors doesn't help science progress.
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nice1
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Re: More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin [Re: nice1]
#15016527 - 09/02/11 08:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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nice1
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Re: More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin [Re: nice1]
#15016537 - 09/02/11 08:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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So how should we proceed in building our gravity modification experiment?
We need to rotate something very fast. Maybe a mercury plasma? Ala the Nazi bell device.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin [Re: nice1]
#15016576 - 09/02/11 09:08 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Have you done a literature search for papers that have cited the 1989 paper? Start by doing that.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
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Re: More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin [Re: DieCommie]
#15016635 - 09/02/11 09:27 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Incidentally, wouldn't a clockiwse rotation (in the N hemisphere) ttend to lessen the overall angular momentum of the earth by some tiny portion? Would this have any detectable consequences?
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Diploid
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Re: More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin [Re: nice1]
#15033152 - 09/05/11 02:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't understand the "forbidden science" shtick.
This kind of crap really annoys me. The OP references Physical Review Letters, a respected publication, but then provides a link to a pop science web that nobody ever heard of.
Follow that up with the fact that a high school grade analytic scale can easily measure the claimed delta, and so anyone with a few hundred dollars to buy the scale and another 20 bucks for the gyroscope could reproduce these results and rock the world of physics. Yet nobody has since 1989.
What's up with that?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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XeR0
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Re: More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin [Re: Diploid]
#15033318 - 09/05/11 03:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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You've certainly inspired me. I've always wondered if it was possibility. Spin has a lot of properties I'm sure we haven't fully understood yet. Every celestial body spins not just around itself but around other objects as well. And those objects all spin around something else which spins around something else. Heck, in tornadoes and dust devils, small electromagetic (radio I think) signals are released because of the friction of dust/water particles in the funnel.
However, I'm sure something as simple as the weight of gyroscope spinning would've been looked over hundreds of times and the results already confirmed. I could be wrong but it seems highly unlikely that something like that would be hidden so well. I agree with DieCommie. Any serious discussion on any scientific phenomena requires a good amount of reliable reference(s). If you've got any, that will definitely add credibility to your claim.
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Diploid said: Follow that up with the fact that a high school grade analytic scale can easily measure the claimed delta, and so anyone with a few hundred dollars to buy the scale and another 20 bucks for the gyroscope could reproduce these results and rock the world of physics. Yet nobody has since 1989.
What's up with that?
My point exactly...
-------------------- Drug Experience: Caffeine, Codeine/Morphine, Psilocybin/Psilocin, Dream Herb (Calea Zacatechichi), Melatonin, N,N-DMT, LSD, Pramiracetam, Piracetam, Cannabis ToDo: Galantamine, Hydergine
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johnm214


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Re: More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin [Re: DieCommie]
#15033787 - 09/05/11 04:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: I don't understand the "forbidden science" shtick.
This kind of crap really annoys me. The OP references Physical Review Letters, a respected publication, but then provides a link to a pop science web that nobody ever heard of.
Follow that up with the fact that a high school grade analytic scale can easily measure the claimed delta, and so anyone with a few hundred dollars to buy the scale and another 20 bucks for the gyroscope could reproduce these results and rock the world of physics. Yet nobody has since 1989.
What's up with that?
Actually plenty of people have. If you do a google scholar searc for the paper in question you can find a number of papers on it.
The only problem is none of them were able to reproduce the effect that I found.
And yea, that's not so minor of a deviation, five-thousandths of one percent should be 5E-5, right? So if we have a gyroscope of 100 grams, then this would be 5mg, right? I haven't read the paper, just going on what the original poster said, but this is a magnitude easily measurable with cheap scales as you say.
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DieCommie said: Have you done a literature search for papers that have cited the 1989 paper? Start by doing that.
Apparently not. This "forbidden science" seems to have been tested by a whole bunch of people who found... nothing. Must be because the science police made them change their results to aid the evil corporations.
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XeR0
Mind Voyager



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Re: More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin [Re: johnm214]
#15033955 - 09/05/11 05:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
DieCommie said: Have you done a literature search for papers that have cited the 1989 paper? Start by doing that.
Apparently not. This "forbidden science" seems to have been tested by a whole bunch of people who found... nothing. Must be because the science police made them change their results to aid the evil corporations.
I can sorta agree with that possibility. I'm just gonna go on a tangent here and talk about sonoluminescence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminescence
Without getting into too much detail, Rusi Taleyarkhan ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusi_Taleyarkhan ) supposedly did countless experiments and ended up with results showing that sonoluminescence was nuclear fusion. To many close-minded scientists, this sounded like the return of cold fusion so it was obviously met with criticism. Long story short, they made this documentary apparently disproving Rusi's findings and stating that there was no fusion going on. Just a light and that's all.
As a result, Rusi was charged with research misconduct and stripped of his professorship. Think about this: An Indian guy comes up with a cheap way to start nuclear fusion....a very powerful, reliable, and CLEAN source of energy. Do you REALLY think the Big Boys at the top are going to let that puny dude get away with it? No way!
So obviously, there's a good chance that "official" results can be doctored by Big Brother. If the public ever got hold of certain pieces of information, it wouldn't be too good for those that want to keep it a secret. In the end, experimentation is the MOST reliable and unbiased way of getting facts.
-------------------- Drug Experience: Caffeine, Codeine/Morphine, Psilocybin/Psilocin, Dream Herb (Calea Zacatechichi), Melatonin, N,N-DMT, LSD, Pramiracetam, Piracetam, Cannabis ToDo: Galantamine, Hydergine
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johnm214


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Re: More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin [Re: XeR0]
#15034348 - 09/05/11 06:46 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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How does firing some guy stop them from telling the world about their item? He can still talk, patent it, publish it, do anything.
The whole basis of science is open collaboration and testing of results, and you don't need to be a proffesor to do that. Anyone who wants to can try it out.
I really don't get these science conspiracy claims.
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. Do you REALLY think the Big Boys at the top are going to let that puny dude get away with it? No way!
I really think the Big Boys have nothing to do with it. Do you have any evidence this kinda thing is actually occuring or that the Indian guy shouldn't have been fired, was innocent of the charges the school brought against him?
These kind of conspiracy theories seem to lack any evidence and instead rely on speculation. It also seems somewhat peculiar that the speculation appears to be more prevalent in people not too familiar with the natural sciences or how research is done.
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XeR0
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Re: More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin [Re: johnm214]
#15035650 - 09/05/11 11:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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True. But that still doesn't make the guys at the top any more or less trustworthy in my eyes. It's the same guys that stopped LSD experimentation that are controlling what the public knows. I can swallow conspiracy theories to a point. After that it just gets too wacky. "OOh...the gov't is watching what we're thinking...get those tin foil hats. Every spoon has a microchip that reads biological information. They're SOO in control!" Please!
But for something like this:
you don't seriously BELIEVE oil companies are gonna let this slide out of the goodness of their hearts so easily, do you? Sure it isn't as enticing or exciting as FOX makes it out to be but it does have its merits. Of course, nothing may come of it and it's all just latent paranoia talking but I'm not willing to be that gullible either. bleh...can't think...too tired at 1AM got college @ 8AM so I gotta hit the ssack. Sorry if i'm not making any sense...
-------------------- Drug Experience: Caffeine, Codeine/Morphine, Psilocybin/Psilocin, Dream Herb (Calea Zacatechichi), Melatonin, N,N-DMT, LSD, Pramiracetam, Piracetam, Cannabis ToDo: Galantamine, Hydergine
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johnm214


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Re: More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin [Re: XeR0]
#15036310 - 09/06/11 03:19 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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What could they do about it? Anyways, water isn't a fuel, its highly oxidized and isn't going to give you any energy. That whole thing in the video is a scam: the energy it takes to produce hydrogen and oxygen from water is the same magnitude of energy yielded when hydrogen is burned with oxygen. Its litterally that simply. THe claims they make are ridiculous anyways, even if the water was 100% gasoline it still wouldn't have the performance they claim.
But that's a good example of these nutty claims: why hasn't that guy published his secret technology? He was working on it for a long time before BP killed him, but though apparently the powers that be were cool with his website and crazy claims, they wouldn't let him register the patent, put the schematics on the website, publish the schematics. Its a ridiculous concept these scamartists use as an excuse for not providing any information on the product they want to sell you (either as an investor or as a consumer of some overpriced "HHO" kit)
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,729
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Re: More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin [Re: XeR0]
#15036326 - 09/06/11 03:32 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
XeR0 said: you don't seriously BELIEVE oil companies are gonna let this slide out of the goodness of their hearts so easily, do you?
Your entire argument, like that of many conspiracy theorists in the field of energy, relies on a form of absolute, political power that is attributed to 'the oil companies'. What exactly is the theoretical basis and empirical support for the concept of a petrochemical industry that has bundled its power and is in complete control of scientific and market developments? 'Cause I don't see it, really. Sure, large oil firms lobby with several Western governments to influence policy making, which gives them some, indirect political power, but that's a far cry from being able to thwart fundamental, physical and chemical research that occurs for a large part beyond the direct control of policy makers, let alone corporations.
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nice1
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Re: More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin [Re: koraks]
#15036401 - 09/06/11 04:45 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Its not oil - its money.
Scientists need grants or funding. Everybody is under control - by finance. We are also controlled by law, military might and medias we consume.
All people are under control so To me its easy to see how these things are kept controlled.
I don't believe we need to be reliant on oil at all. We are kept reliant on it by a monopoly industry. Anyone can be bought off and when theres enough power at stake its easier to accept a bribe than get assassinated. No point pretending this doesn't happen because it does. The west has been using this method to take over control of entire countries for a long time. So I have no doubt what they could do to some guy and his patent.
If I controlled that industry I would def have people in the patent office bought off to notify me of who needed a reminder of who the boss is.
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Seuss
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Re: More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin [Re: XeR0]
#15036406 - 09/06/11 04:48 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Without getting into too much detail, Rusi Taleyarkhan ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusi_Taleyarkhan ) supposedly did countless experiments and ended up with results showing that sonoluminescence was nuclear fusion. To many close-minded scientists, this sounded like the return of cold fusion so it was obviously met with criticism. Long story short, they made this documentary apparently disproving Rusi's findings and stating that there was no fusion going on. Just a light and that's all.
As a result, Rusi was charged with research misconduct and stripped of his professorship.
A whole lot of incorrectness in the above...
From your wiki link:
Quote:
Numerous other scientists, however, were not able to replicate Taleyarkhan's work, including published articles in Phys. Rev. Lett. from the University of Gottingen, from UCLA, from University of Illinois, from former colleagues at Oak Ridge National Labs, and a study funded by the Office of Naval Research in the University of California.
So, "many close-minded scientists" tried to reproduce his results, and failed. This is how science works, and this is why fraud typically doesn't last long in science.
It was not his claims of nuclear fusion that got him into trouble, but instead:
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The report finds Taleyarkhan guilty of misconduct for citing a paper by junior researchers in his lab as if their work was an “independent” replication of his own findings. He is also found guilty of adding the name of a student who had not contributed to the paper as an author, apparently in order to counter a reviewer’s comment that the replication effort seemed to lack witnesses.
(Source: Nature)
He also was not "stripped of his professorship" as you claim. Again, from your own source (did you even read it?):
Quote:
... on August 27, 2008 his status as a member of the Purdue University Graduate Faculty was limited to that of 'Special Graduate Faculty.' He is permitted to serve on graduate committees, but will not be able to serve as a major professor or co-major professor for graduate students for a period of 3 years.[9] He is debarred for 28 months, until September 2011, from receiving U.S. Federal Funding
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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Re: More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin [Re: nice1] 1
#15036419 - 09/06/11 04:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
nice1 said: Its not oil - its money.
Scientists need grants or funding. Everybody is under control - by finance.
That's too easy, and disregards how science actually works in practice. I work in academia myself, and I can assure you that there are many checks and balances to ensure that academics have a huge degree of liberty in researching what they want and publishing their results. I can also assure you that if a scientist would happen to stumble across e.g. a viable concept for cold fusion, the pressure to get a couple of enormously high-ranking publications from that is MUCH larger than any pressure exerted by external financiers. If a company wants to do research and they don't want the outcomes to be made public, then they'll perform the research in-house or contract it out to a firm or institute that they control. Believing that oil corporations control academic research because they provide a tiny portion of the funding is, for lack of a better word, dumb. It disregards the organization and control mechanisms of universities, and it completely ignores the academic culture and ethical norms. Only people who have never set foot in a university would make the kind of assumptions that you make.
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We are kept reliant on it by a monopoly industry.
No, we are 'kept reliant' on oil because of high switching costs, and those costs are the immediate result of network externalities. It has nothing to do with conspiracies or the supposed political power of oil companies, which is in reality much smaller than you seem to believe.
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nice1
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Re: More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin [Re: koraks]
#15036522 - 09/06/11 05:44 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Believing that oil corporations control academic research because they provide a tiny portion of the funding is, for lack of a better word, dumb.
Well its a good job I didn't say that then
As for the rest of your post I agree. I'm just sayin people are corruptible. Everyone likes a bit of money, feed the greed. Don't think business monopolies don't do whatever they can to keep you using their product.
Theres tons of corrupt monopolies out there. Just look at how the pharm industry corrupts its "scientific" data and then buys off the gov to keep peddling their addictive drugs as "cures".
In business this type of shit happens. Theres a monopoly on energy and any dirty tricks people or businesses get up to to keep that would not surprise me.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,729
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Re: More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin [Re: nice1]
#15036541 - 09/06/11 05:51 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
nice1 said: Theres tons of corrupt monopolies out there. Just look at how the pharm industry corrupts its "scientific" data and then buys off the gov to keep peddling their addictive drugs as "cures".
Well, that's the whole reason why logical positivism doesn't work, in my opinion. Many of those 'cures' do indeed help, if you measure the right parameters. Many of those cures also have averse effects, both in medical and economic terms. The 'truth' as portrayed (and possibly believed in) by the pharmaceutical companies is a different one from the 'truth' as you portray it here. But in the end, neither one is more true than the other. Peddling either 'reality' as the only valid one is short-sighted. Perhaps that is the biggest problem I have with conspiracy theorists: they portray themselves as positivists living in a world that chooses to adhere to a postmodernist viewpoint: conspiracy theorists appear to believe that they know the one and only truth, but that the world around them chooses to disregard that truth or to ignore certain aspects of it. The fact that reality might be subjective and constructed seems to elude them.
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nice1
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Re: More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin [Re: koraks]
#15036556 - 09/06/11 05:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
But in the end, neither one is more true than the other.

No not really. You can't say an apple is also an orange.
In the example I used maybe some drugs help but thats not my point. I was talking about it from a business perspective to illustrate my point that money can be used to manipulate so called "scientific" data. They simply pay people to ignore certain aspects of the data - the "science" is then reviewed by a sister company with a vested interest. When that happens, its corruption plain and simple.
The rest of you post seems to just be some attempt to stereotype and stigmatize anyone who questions things. I don't even know who a conspiracy theorists is. Where does that term come from? Is it like a race of people now.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,729
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Re: More forbidden science - Gyroscope weight loss with clock wise spin [Re: nice1]
#15036563 - 09/06/11 06:02 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
nice1 said:
Quote:
But in the end, neither one is more true than the other.

No not really. You can't say an apple is also an orange.
Sure; what we call apple or orange is a matter of definition. Change the definition (or claim that the definition held by all people is invalid), and apples change into oranges. Take 9/11: did Osama Bin Laden pull that on the US, or did Western society call that over itself by messing with Muslims once too often? They're both true, and you could argue that either 'truth' is the essence. In fact, they are interwoven, and it merely depends on which one a person want to regard as the essential truth.
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nice1 said: They simply pay people to ignore certain aspects of the data - the "science" is then reviewed by a sister company with a vested interest. When that happens, its corruption plain and simple.
Sure, but if you rely on peer-reviewed publications, then this problem is prevented by relying on anonymous reviewers that are selected by the editors of the journals, and most reviewers have no vested interests in pharmaceutical companies, and if they do, they are obliged to report it.
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