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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
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Compassion
    #1501451 - 04/28/03 06:55 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

THOSE HIDEOUS UNCOMPASSIONATE CONSERVATIVES

Some group called The Chronicle of Philanthropy has compiled a list of the most and least generous areas in the United States when it comes to individuals giving money to charity.

This list of the most and least generous cities in the U.S. shows the amount of disposable income that is donated to charitable causes. Look at the list, and tell me if you see anything odd ? politically speaking ? about who does and doesn?t give.

Most Generous/Percentage
1. Salt Lake City-Ogden, Utah 14.9
2. Grand Rapids-Muskegon-Holland, Michigan 10.0
3. (tie) Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota 8.5
3. (tie) Greensboro-Winston-Salem-High Point, North Carolina 8.5
5. (tie) Memphis, Tennessee 8.4
5. (tie) Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas 8.4 7. Nashville, Tennessee 8.3
8. (tie) San Antonio, Texas 8.1
8. (tie) Houston-Galveston-Brazoria, Texas 8.1
10. (tie) Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 8.0
10. (tie) Norfolk-Virginia Beach-Newport News, Virginia 8.0

Least Generous/Percentage
1. Hartford, Connecticut 4.7
2. Providence-Fall River-Warwick, Rhode Island 5.1
3. Boston-Worcester-Lawrence, Massachusetts 5.2
4. Buffalo-Niagara Falls, New York 5.8
5. (tie) New Orleans, Louisiana 5.9
5. (tie) Las Vegas, Nevada 5.9
7. Austin-San Marcos, Texas 6.0
8. (tie) Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 6.1
8. (tie) Miami-Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 6.1
8. (tie) Philadelphia-Wilmington, Delaware-Atlantic City, New Jersey 6.1

Have you figured it out yet? Let me help. Remember the great election map after the 2000 vote? The reds and the blues? If not, your link to that map is http://mwhodges.home.att.net/usmap-large.gif. The red areas on that map voted for George Bush. The blue areas voted for Al Gore. Check out the cities where people give generously to charities. For the most part, they voted for Bush. The least generous cities voted for Gore. In fact, you might remember a news story during the campaign showing how little money Al Gore gave to charity. Stories of that type are now surfacing about John Kerry.

The true story here is one of the nature of leftist compassion. When conservatives act compassionately, they do so with their own money. Liberals? They use your money..
The Link


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
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Re: Compassion [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1501708 - 04/28/03 08:09 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

The libbies only feel confortable forcing others to give their own money than having to actually get off their own asses to give.

As a side note i give about $1500 a year in clothing to "Purple Heart" and give to various other charities...it sure beats a failing welfare system.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Compassion [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1501726 - 04/28/03 08:16 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I can't speak for other liberals whom I don't know personally. However, my parents are liberals who give generously to several charities. I make minimum wage, so I can't really donate a whole lot to charity, but whenever a homeless person asks me for change, I give it to him if I have any.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Edited by silversoul7 (04/28/03 08:17 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Compassion [Re: silversoul7]
    #1501756 - 04/28/03 08:27 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I bet since you don't have much cash you do something like volunteer time to....Habit or Meals on Wheels? Something like that?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblez@z.com
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Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Compassion [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1501760 - 04/28/03 08:28 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I personally like picking up some of the local homeless people to take out to lunch from time to time.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Compassion [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1501766 - 04/28/03 08:29 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yes. I have donated my time and effort to Loaves & Fishes, as well as to my cousin's organization, Francis house, which helps find low-income housing for the homeless. I'm also a blood donor.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Compassion [Re: silversoul7]
    #1501772 - 04/28/03 08:31 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Good man.

Too bad more don't give blood.

Loaves and Fishes sounds a lot like Meals On Wheel. Food to the needy for Lloaves. Food to shut ins for Meals.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: Compassion [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1502054 - 04/28/03 10:02 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I dunno if you've got a small amount of disposable income a week I think you would be less able to afford to give a percentage to charity. I mean someone on a low income may only have $50 a week of disposable income after rent, food etc, and I don't think that would be uncommon. If you have $1000 a week disposable, $100 won't make a great deal of difference to your quality of life.


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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Compassion [Re: enotake2]
    #1504769 - 04/29/03 04:32 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I pay for others welfare, and health care......because i have to. I dont volenteer time nor money to these organisations. :tongue:


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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InvisibleXlea321
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Compassion [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1504856 - 04/29/03 04:55 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

This is completly meaningless. Could you post the link? What exactly do they define as a "charitable cause"?

Are conservatives giving more money to single parent families, the homeless and blacks for example?


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlinehongomon
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Registered: 04/14/02
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Re: Compassion [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1505093 - 04/29/03 06:01 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not going to discount your whole post, because I also believe that money given voluntariliy is both more effective and more fulfulling. 

But regarding the SaltLake/Ogden stat, as a former Mormon I want to let you in on a llittle PR secret of theirs:  the 10% tithe required of "worthy" members (and this is on one's  gross  earnings, not  net ) is considered a "charitable contribution".  Furthermore, there are other ways Mormons are encouraged to give of their earnings, noteably in the monthly fast-offerings, where a member skips three meals and then donates the money saved to help the needy.  Church officials estimate that the average faithful member gives about 12% of his or her earnings to the church. That fast offering, moreso than the 10% tithe, truly goes to the needy.  Much of the rest goes to the building and maintainance of their holy structures, some of which (the temples) cost millions.  Just take a drive up the I-5 here in San Diego....

Still, it's a good list, and while not immune to some criticism, definitely some food for thought.

hongomon 

ps--did you know the the common acronymn for "the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (the Mormons) is "LDS"?  Just like yours!  Special, huh?  :grin:


Edited by hongomon (04/29/03 06:09 PM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Compassion [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1505685 - 04/29/03 08:46 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Most "charitable" contributions are just Conservative christians trying to swipe jungle people from each other in their third world cults.

Basically it's money laundering.


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Anonymous

Re: Compassion [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1505810 - 04/29/03 09:36 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I am a socialist and I would never give a cent of my money away you to freaks. You all should be locked up in cells and rot like stinking apes. bah humbug.


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: Compassion [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1505820 - 04/29/03 09:39 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

As Winston Churchill said, there are "Lies, damn lies, and statistics."

The Electoral College is tallied by state, not by locality. Without knowing what the state averages are, this information is completely useless. I checked out the website for the Chronicle of Philanthropy ( http://philanthropy.com/ )and they do have a state ranking for charitable deductions, but you have to be a subscriber to access it and I have no interest in plunking down the money.

There are other issues. First of all, higher-income people tend to donate more to charities because A) they can afford to, and B) they make enough money that it makes more sense for them to itemize their deductions than to take the standard automatic deduction. Much of this "charitable giving" comes back to them in large part through savings from tax deductions. Now, if they get a tax deduction, the government is forgoing tax revenue. If the government spends revenue it doesn't receive (deficit spending) we all wind up paying for it in the long run through inflation.

Second, you confuse "compassion" with giving to charity. Many organizations qualify as charities, including churches, medical research organizations, and various other non-profit organizations. A person who donates money to his own church is not so much expressing "compassion" as propagating his own religious beliefs. A person who gives money to a medical research organization researching a disease from which he himself suffers is not so much exercising compassion as trying to find a way to ease his own suffering, or perhaps save his own life.

Third, if you look closely at the list that you yourself provided, you will see that the difference between the 10th MOST generous locality (Newport et al Virginia at 8.0% of discretionary income) and the 10th LEAST generous locality (Philadelphia/Wilmington et al. at 6.1%) is not very great. By the most rigorous standards, it is in fact statistically meaningless. This means that the vast majority of localities in America give at an average of between 8.0 and 6.1 percent of discretionary income. Not a terribly impressive difference. Salt Lake City is a statistical aberration, and any fool can figure out that the vast majority of that money goes to the Mormon church--hardly an example of "compassion" if you ask me.

For these and a number of other reasons that I could list if you really want to have your argument demolished even further, these figures are meaningless. If you really want to prove your point, you would have to produce a study that calculates charitable giving among self-declared Republicans and Democrats nationwide as a percentage of disposable income MINUS the tax savings from charitable deductions. This would give a clear picture of EXACTLY how much disposable income is being lost in the form of charitable giving, with a clear breakdown by party affiliation. Also, if the point you're trying to drive home is one of "compassion" per se, the charitable giving that would be included in the calculation would have to be limited only to those charities whose express purpose is to relieve suffering, and not, say, simply to build more gold-plated churches.

Another one of the studies they post on their site says that Blacks give a higher percentage of their income to charity than Whites. A person could try to argue (illogically) that since Blacks predominantly vote Democrat, Democrats are more generous than Republicans. This would rest on the fallacy that a characteristic of a part of the whole (Blacks) is representative of the whole itself (Democrats in general). For all we know, white Democrats may be complete misers. In any event, this would be a fallacious argument, but no more fallacious than the one you present.

Better luck next time.


Edited by EchoVortex (04/29/03 10:50 PM)


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: Compassion [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1506433 - 04/30/03 01:49 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

luv, you've gone awfully quiet. Would you care to address the issues raised?


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Compassion [Re: Xlea321]
    #1506447 - 04/30/03 01:55 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

He's at a fund raiser to raise money to buy a bomb to blow up an abortion clinic.

It's tax deductable y'know.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Compassion [Re: Xlea321]
    #1506770 - 04/30/03 05:47 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

This is completly meaningless. Could you post the link? What exactly do they define as a "charitable cause"?

Are conservatives giving more money to single parent families, the homeless and blacks for example?



The link was posted with the article. Follow it. I'd say read it but seeing as you appear to rarely read links and other info provided to you, it doesn't seem to be worth the trouble.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Compassion [Re: enotake2]
    #1506773 - 04/30/03 05:49 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I dunno if you've got a small amount of disposable income a week I think you would be less able to afford to give a percentage to charity. I mean someone on a low income may only have $50 a week of disposable income after rent, food etc, and I don't think that would be uncommon. If you have $1000 a week disposable, $100 won't make a great deal of difference to your quality of life.



So perhaps a person such as you describe should then donate his time.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Compassion [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1506775 - 04/30/03 05:50 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I pay for others welfare, and health care......because i have to. I dont volenteer time nor money to these organisations. :tongue: 



Not much of a surprise.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,712
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Compassion [Re: hongomon]
    #1506777 - 04/30/03 05:52 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Food for thought was the idea.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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