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Is Physical Immortality Possible?
#15005379 - 08/31/11 07:13 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hi I am wondering what peoples thoughts are regarding physical immortality, creating conditions in the body somehow so that it doesn't die of age related things. Some people say aging is a disease. Is physical immortality possible?
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: lines]
#15005399 - 08/31/11 07:21 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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> Is physical immortality possible?
For complex organisms, probably not. Forever is a really long time with a cold and lonely future.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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lines
Stranger


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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: Seuss]
#15005411 - 08/31/11 07:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turritopsis_nutricula#Biological_immortality
The jellyfish is potentially immortal
Quote:
Seuss said: Forever is a really long time with a cold and lonely future.
Well its hard to speculate accurately what the future will be for various scenarios. But wouldn't a future of some sort be better than nothingness(assuming death is nothingness but of course we can't say for sure whether or not it is nothingness)?
Edited by lines (08/31/11 07:29 AM)
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5HTSynaptrip
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: lines]
#15005468 - 08/31/11 07:48 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Some of the shit we do now wasn't even conceivable not that long ago. When you look at the age of the Earth and the age of human civilization it really is shocking that we've been on the moon and have seen a lot of Mars. It wasn't long ago that the Earth was the center of the universe and some deity just made everything.
We will definitely continue to increase our life-expectancy as we have over the past century. Biological systems are susceptible to so many factors that are detrimental to them. The next big leap for prolonging our lives will probably come from genetic developments... everything from rebuilding telomeres, rapid sequencing to identify disease, correcting genetic errors, possibly engineering using genetics, and a lot of this stuff will help with cancer.
Stars even die though so we're limited with these soft bodies. I'd rather it be possible that I move into a robotic body... personality, memories, knowledge, and the ability to manipulate subjective experience at will.
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Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.
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koraks
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: lines]
#15005490 - 08/31/11 07:55 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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If something is immortal...is it still alive then? For me, the essence of life is the fact that it can die. Bit of a semantic discussion, but still. Interesting from a philosophical viewpoint.
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Mr. Bojangles
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: koraks]
#15005933 - 08/31/11 10:43 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Telomerase therapy? But it'll probably give you cancer, which might kill you even if you do live longer.
-------------------- "It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong." Francois-Marie Arouet
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: lines]
#15005962 - 08/31/11 10:51 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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> Well its hard to speculate accurately what the future will be for various scenarios.
Our current understanding is that the universe is accelerating. This means that eventually all of the stars will burn out and the cold lumps of mater will continue to spread apart into a vast, cold, solitary wasteland.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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LayinUp
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: Seuss]
#15006077 - 08/31/11 11:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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not in your lifetime
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Escape the box.
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DieCommie

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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: lines]
#15006581 - 08/31/11 12:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
lines said: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turritopsis_nutricula#Biological_immortality
The jellyfish is potentially immortal
I dont think so. Think about 'immortality' a bit. If you lived to be a million years old, or a billion, or a billion billion - you would still be just as far from immortality as a fruit fly.
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rnastruc
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: DieCommie]
#15019469 - 09/02/11 07:45 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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We don't know much about aging, from a scientific perspective. Yes, there has been a lot of work on telomeres and oxidative damage, but a lot remains to be discovered. However, evolutionarily, aging plays a very important role. It is a way by which we constantly renew the gene pool. As people age and die, it allows more opportunities for younger populations to procreate with each other. If people lived and were fertile for longer, they would procreate more in their lifetime, which somewhat homogenizes the gene pool.
Because aging is pretty important for the genetic fitness of a population, it will probably be difficult for us to control.
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Viveka
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: rnastruc]
#15026194 - 09/04/11 02:42 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
rnastruc said: Because aging is pretty important for the genetic fitness of a population, it will probably be difficult for us to control.
Seems like a non-sequitor. I agree that it will be difficult for us to control aging and death but why would the importance of those things to the health of the species affect our ability to control it? Maybe you mean success at controlling it would be detrimental to the health of the species?
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rnastruc
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: Viveka]
#15027069 - 09/04/11 10:51 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Generally, with any biological function that has an extreme significance (whether it is an evolutionary significance or a function that is key to survival of an individual), there is a lot of redundance. Therefore, there is not just one mechanism by which aging occurs. So what I'm saying is that because aging is a pretty significant evolutionary trait, it is likely complex, and controlling it will require identifying and determining ways to manipulate each mechanism.
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5HTSynaptrip
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: Viveka]
#15027148 - 09/04/11 11:11 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's not necessarily aging or mortality that make fitness better for a species. The way organisms in a species(in some instances cross-species) share genetic information and the way sexual reproduction, in humans for example(diploid), have made heredity conservative yet still variable is what improves fitness.
Being mortal allows resources to be sustainable, but that's kind of a silly notion considering the need for energy in any living organism as complex as a mammal. Even if you exclude physical trauma the population would compete for food, and that would create another scenario governed by natural selection(making it hard to ignore stronger members of the population killing off weaker ones thus negating immortality).
Our civilization has been around for such a universally small amount of time it's silly. Look at the percentage of Americans that don't believe evolution occurs/is real, and not all of them do so because of religion. I've given up trying to explain how evolution and natural selection make complex organisms possible to my family. A lot of people can't wrap their mind around a billion years, but it's totally rational to expect an eternity in heaven or hell.
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Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.
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nooneman


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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: lines]
#15027202 - 09/04/11 11:22 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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You could probably stop aging, but you'd have to cure all cancer first, otherwise cancer would inevitably kill you. You'd probably have to cure most disease too.
And it would suck. Could you imagine if there were a bunch of assholes from the 1800s still around? Death is a good thing. Death is the best invention in the world, because death is what allows society to move forward. If there was no death, the drug war would never end, because the prohibitionist assholes from the 1960s would always have power.
Allowing people to live forever would be an enormous disaster. We don't even have enough room and food and jobs for people to live forever.
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LightShedder
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: lines]
#15038045 - 09/06/11 01:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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In my opinion immortality is possible. This is what I just posted in the genetics thread, i didn't even know this thread was up or I would have posted it here....
Even if this isn't the way, it's still possible...
I studied genetic engineering last year for a while....
One thing I recall reading about was a technique in which one can retrieve viable DNA from an organism (such as a mammal) when the organism is healthy and at it's prime age (for example), and then store the cells until the organism has aged and gotten sick (let's say of lung cancer), at which time the healthy cells can be injected back into the organism (this is where I'm unsure aboutthe technique) to cause a domino-effect type occurrence to take place in the organism, thereby altering the entire organisms cells back into the condition they were in when they were isolated.
The key was, (1) it took some kind of special equipment and micro-implantation surgical technique to reintroduce the cells back into the organism in a way that would cause this effect to take place(I dont remember what the effect was called) and (2) the cells to be injected obviously had to be the DNA of the organism to be injected.
It might be possible to take cells with another DNA, and with the right skill and equipment be able to mutate them into your DNA expressed at age 24 in healthy condition, then using these cells to implant.
And that's how you utilize the language of god to receive eternal life. I learned all this in the bible btw.
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rockycrag
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: LightShedder]
#15038108 - 09/06/11 01:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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na not physical immortality, the physical brain was wired to age and die.
-------------------- A falling leaf does not hate the wind.
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LightShedder
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: rockycrag]
#15038134 - 09/06/11 01:35 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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The physical brain was wired to age and die?
Proof please.
In my studies, I've come to the realization that organisms age due to their genetics/environment but that any point in time, one can look at the DNA as a representation of how old/healthy that organism is. Whether or not this can be manipulated or not through telomerase therapy or other means is debatable.
Saying "the brain is physically wired to age and die" is saying too much without science. The brain is wired to function as a brain....
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lines
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: LightShedder]
#15042362 - 09/07/11 11:40 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
LightShedder said: One thing I recall reading about was a technique in which one can retrieve viable DNA from an organism (such as a mammal) when the organism is healthy and at it's prime age (for example), and then store the cells until the organism has aged and gotten sick (let's say of lung cancer), at which time the healthy cells can be injected back into the organism (this is where I'm unsure aboutthe technique) to cause a domino-effect type occurrence to take place in the organism, thereby altering the entire organisms cells back into the condition they were in when they were isolated.
How does a person store cells? And how is this technique done? In your estimation could a layman do something like this?
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LightShedder
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: lines]
#15042843 - 09/07/11 01:28 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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The cells are stored under liquid nitrogen. Im not an expert in the technique and can't tell you anything more than it takes special equipment and surgical tools for micro-implantation. IMO it would take understanding of the process and funds to put together that which is required.... I assume it would be very very expensive.
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Luddite
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: lines]
#15043759 - 09/07/11 04:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Some say amaebas live forever.
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soma100
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: Luddite]
#15050610 - 09/08/11 09:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Physical immortality would require us to change ourselves to such an extent we wouldn't even be recognizable as humans anymore, and even then you still have to think that the universe you inhabit will one day end itself. What then? Perhaps you can find a way into a new or tangent universe, or maybe ride "the big bounce" somehow (if that theory ever turns out to be true). If such theories of the universe's death & rebirth turn out to happen, then maybe you could possibly teleport into another dimension temporarily through the interim as the universe returns to more habitable conditions. But that's if any of this is even possible at all. This is only speculation, but then so is just about everything else (at least at some point in time).
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LightShedder
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: soma100]
#15051319 - 09/09/11 12:36 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Why would physical immortality require "a change that would make us unrecognizable as humans?"
I described a way that might potentially do it by just preventing your DNA from ever aging/changing/getting ill...
Not that it's guaranteed or approved or anything, but hypothetically speaking, I can't even imagine any potential ways that would "require a change that would make us unrecognizable as humans".... I'm curious what you mean.
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illusionsofman
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: LightShedder]
#15058951 - 09/10/11 05:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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you should read the book The Message Given To Me By Extreterestrials. Acording to Rael the elohim extraterestrials can grant people imortal life.
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lines
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Are the extra terrestrials immortal according to Rael? And is he referring to th eones who have the big heads and big eyes?
In the book of enoch many people believe that the entities in that book called Watchers(grigori) are actually aliens. Book of enoch is ancient jewish literature but it is not part of the official jewish body of literature.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watcher_(angel)
Also it is interesting to note that in the bible some people lived very long lives. Methuselah for instance lived 900 years.
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soma100
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: LightShedder]
#15066065 - 09/12/11 01:39 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
LightShedder said: Why would physical immortality require "a change that would make us unrecognizable as humans?"
I described a way that might potentially do it by just preventing your DNA from ever aging/changing/getting ill...
Not that it's guaranteed or approved or anything, but hypothetically speaking, I can't even imagine any potential ways that would "require a change that would make us unrecognizable as humans".... I'm curious what you mean.
The fact is, if you change DNA just a little you probably wouldn't be very "human." Look at monkeys. Even though 99% of our genetic makeup is alike, there are vast differences between us and them. Any subtle shifts in DNA might result in drastic changes, and I imagine a result such as immortality would require many of these drastic changes in DNA take place seeing as how you have to overcome cellular death among other things.
Not to mention, as an immortal you would still be bound to your environment, which changes a lot and dies itself eventually, along with the entire universe. You would ultimately have to figure out a way to overcome and adapt to the very decay of matter as it exists on a quantum level itself.
Just the fact that you might have to re-engineer yourself genetically for your cells to be able to absorb more radiation than they're programmed for would probably result in a chain reaction so intense, no scientist could look at your DNA and "technically" refer to you as a human.
I strongly doubt physical immortality is even possible and even if it was, I doubt anyone would ride the storm for eternity. The psychological effects of living for such a long time and experiencing so many things is hard to comprehend. Just being able to contain that amount of memory in your brain would require significant levels of genetic tinkering, if not mechanical/nano-technological, which brings me to another point. If humans could live for forever, what makes you think they would want to spend all that time in the same body? While I understand this isn't a necessity for the actual physical immortality to take place, I do think it is worth being brought up.
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Darwin23
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: soma100]
#15071957 - 09/13/11 08:48 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Through nanotechnology it will be possible. Kind of useless though. Once we can get our consciounesses onto computers there is no reason to use a physical body. Once you experience the eternal bliss and nirvana that the computer can bring your mind, there will be no reason to want to experience anything ever again.
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Take a look at my journal
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Viveka
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Re: Is Physical Immortality Possible? [Re: Darwin23]
#15072328 - 09/13/11 10:35 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Once you experience the eternal bliss and nirvana that the computer can bring your mind, there will be no reason to want to experience anything ever again.
Oh cool, so you've tried it?
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