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OfflineGoaTrip
journeyman

Registered: 01/12/01
Posts: 39
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
first time WBS question...
    #1498764 - 04/27/03 09:39 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

up until now ive always used 1 part BRF, 1 part water, and 2 parts verm. so now im searching to find the correct and "best" tek to use birdseed. i found one that said to "use birdseed and follow the PF tek. is it trying to say to replace the 1 part BRF with 1 part birdseed then simply add the 1 part water and 2 parts verm? im questioning this because as i searched the forums for more birdseed teks i cam across the 5T WBS Tek and it says to simply use just birdseed. can someone point me in the right direction as to which one not to do? i also had a question about the 6T WBS tek...

Load pint or quart jars ? full, apply internal filter disk, material, polyfil or whatever method you use allow gas exchange through a ? or 3/8 inch hole in the lid.

aside from the 4 holes already in place to inject the spores from the syringe, is this trying to say i need another hole for gas exchange? thanks if you can help and sorry if im asking something that has already been answered... i searched but no luck...


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Offlinefugu
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/06/03
Posts: 2,223
Loc: istanbul
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Re: first time WBS question... [Re: GoaTrip]
    #1498779 - 04/27/03 09:44 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

if you are asking smtng about wbs but not for cakes i will start to ask with you here.


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mushroom culture history making ...Mr. Allan is the best .....


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OfflinePDU
travel kid vs.amerika
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Registered: 12/04/02
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Re: first time WBS question... [Re: GoaTrip]
    #1498790 - 04/27/03 09:48 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

well...the 6t Tek is great, but i think its alot of extra work soaking.

Ill tell you what my gal pal does, and it does work well, take it as youd like.
Fill up a bucket with as much birdseed as your going to use. Fill the bucket up with water and skim off most of the floating sunflower seeds. Dump into strainer and rinse for about 30 seconds with tap water. Load about half way full into wide mouth quart jars and add 1/3-1/2 a cup of water per jar. Put on metal lid. Punch 1/4" hole in the top. Apply bandaid "spot" over it. PC at 15psi for an hour. Wait to cool. Inject with spore solution, or do a grain to grain transfer. She uses 5cc's of innoculant per jar, but this is unneccessary.

The bandaid will act as a resealing injection port aswell as means of gas exhange.

When injecting your innoculant rotate the syringe and inject slowly so it will disperse around the edges of the jar, and leak down. Within 3-4 days mycelium should be present. Then you can shake.

Thats what she does..


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GO OUTSIDE.


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Offlinedebianlinux
Myconerd - DBK
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Re: first time WBS question... [Re: PDU]
    #1498791 - 04/27/03 09:50 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

soaking is practically necessary to germinate bacterial endospores.


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Offlinefugu
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Registered: 01/06/03
Posts: 2,223
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Re: first time WBS question... [Re: debianlinux]
    #1498817 - 04/27/03 09:57 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

debi could you relate the differance between soaking or boiling for bacterial endospores.



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mushroom culture history making ...Mr. Allan is the best .....


Edited by fugu (04/27/03 09:59 PM)


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: first time WBS question... [Re: fugu]
    #1498838 - 04/27/03 10:04 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

bacterial endospores have a "shield" that boiling cannot penetrate. in fact, the higher temperature encourages the shield to come up and stay up. soaking not only drops the shield but encourages the bacteria to germinate. the bacteria is then vulnerable to sterilization. in other words, PCing unsoaked grains will do a "surface sterilization" but once temperatures are back in the "safe zone" the bacterial endospores that have survived the PCing thanks to their shield will germinate and begin to compete with the mycelium for nutrients.


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Offlinefugu
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Registered: 01/06/03
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Re: first time WBS question... [Re: debianlinux]
    #1498856 - 04/27/03 10:12 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

so soaking after boiling will help the shield of the ph or could we just relate it with another thing.?


--------------------
mushroom culture history making ...Mr. Allan is the best .....


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: first time WBS question... [Re: fugu]
    #1498873 - 04/27/03 10:18 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

not sure where ph came into the subject.. you want to soak BEFORE boiling.24 hours seems to be sufficient. i have reduced in vitro bacterial contamination to 0% by rinsing the grains after 12 hours and then resoaking for another 12. that is all.


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Offlinefugu
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/06/03
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Re: first time WBS question... [Re: debianlinux]
    #1498888 - 04/27/03 10:25 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

>where ph came into the subject
i think its easy to understand when you boil the grains for the perfect water ratio .


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mushroom culture history making ...Mr. Allan is the best .....


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: first time WBS question... [Re: fugu]
    #1498925 - 04/27/03 10:41 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Some of the endospore will *not* germinate until they have reached about 200F degrees, this is why sterilization of whole grains can be a problem...I usualy heat a beaker (5liter) on the hot plate, bring it to a fast boil, drop the heat and add the WBS or other grain...keep it going for about 15 minutes and allow it to sit until morning, drain it, pack a container or 40 and then autoclave/PC for 30-45 minutes...

P#1


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OfflinePDU
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Re: first time WBS question... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #1498965 - 04/27/03 10:59 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Im aware of the bacterial endospore thing...lets call it a theory shall we? Debian, you cant say its practically necessary...because its not. My gal pal has had success with this method, as have others. Ive even seen a pictorial Tek that omits soaking....

And here's the link: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum2&Number=644625&Forum=CatSearch-1&Words=fool%20proof%20birdseed&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=50&Old=allposts&Main=644625&Search=true#Post644625
Posted by Stuntzu by the way.


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: first time WBS question... [Re: GoaTrip]
    #1499079 - 04/27/03 11:48 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

CLICK HERE for a WBS link & pictures of the process.

This soaking thing.

It serves three purposes.

I. To hydrate the seed with adiuate moisture.

2. To cause endospores to germinate.

3. To alleviate the need to measure water, add it to dry WBS & PC.

It is a fact, germinated endospores are more suseptable to thermal death, than non/germinated endospores inside seed/grain.

Un-germinated,  endospores inside a seed/grain is armored.

Germinated, it is naked. You be the judge, which is easier to kill with heat.

6T :wink:


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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Offlinebluesky
mushroom cowboy

Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 561
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
Re: first time WBS question... [Re: SixTango]
    #1499110 - 04/28/03 12:01 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

hey 6T, if one was to follow your tek, could they *not* case the WBS after colonization and just do cakes, or is a casing absolutely necessary?


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You're my blue sky, you're my sunny day,
Lord you know it makes me high when you turn your love my way. Turn your love my waaaaaay, Yea.
-Richard (Dickey) Betts


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: first time WBS question... [Re: bluesky]
    #1499150 - 04/28/03 12:13 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Sure you can turn colonized WBS jars into a sort of flat cakes, in a tray.

However, the result IMHO will not be as good as if you use the WBS as spawn into a bulk substrate, then case that & fruit out.

6T


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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Offlinebluesky
mushroom cowboy

Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 561
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Re: first time WBS question... [Re: SixTango]
    #1499195 - 04/28/03 12:23 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

awesome, thanks 6T!!  :cool:


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You're my blue sky, you're my sunny day,
Lord you know it makes me high when you turn your love my way. Turn your love my waaaaaay, Yea.
-Richard (Dickey) Betts


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Offlinebluesky
mushroom cowboy

Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 561
Last seen: 14 years, 2 months
Re: first time WBS question... [Re: bluesky]
    #1499211 - 04/28/03 12:28 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

one more question, what do you use as a substrate (your prefered mix)?


--------------------
You're my blue sky, you're my sunny day,
Lord you know it makes me high when you turn your love my way. Turn your love my waaaaaay, Yea.
-Richard (Dickey) Betts


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: first time WBS question... [Re: bluesky]
    #1499231 - 04/28/03 12:34 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

LOL................Fresh mushroom compost.

Spawn @ min 10% rate. 6T  :wink: 


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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OfflineFcuerkt
insane visionary

Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 371
Loc: the center of a xenon ato...
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: first time WBS question... [Re: SixTango]
    #1515288 - 05/02/03 05:11 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

well IF I decided that I wanted to soak, would over-night (12 hrs) do it? It was bubbly on the top and smelled like creamed corn, so I assume it started to ferment. I've got it draining right now.


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Offlinejakeholman
crotch rocketsrule!

Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 503
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: first time WBS question... [Re: Fcuerkt]
    #1515424 - 05/02/03 06:02 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

sounds good!! and creamed corn is exactly what afoaf smelled the whole day in his house!! lol
Jake H


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The above statement is fictitious and for entertainment purposes only. I do not use or condone the use of illegal substances, nor do I use or condone the use of legal substances in an illegal manner.


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