Home | Community | Message Board


Everything Mushrooms
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds, Bulk Cannabis Seeds, Feminized Cannabis Seeds, High THC Strains, USA West Coast Strains   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6  [ show all ]
Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
American Propaganda
    #1498144 - 04/27/03 03:54 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

i rarely watch american television (i try to stick to space ghost, the simpsons, and curb you enthusiasm)

but, ive been noticing a increase in propaganda commercials.

-if find these commercials to be really blatant and silly, like the one thats shows clips from past wars and then says "every generation has its heroes, this generation is no different" or some shit.

-my question is.....do people really fall for that? it seems anyone with an ounce of media literacy could see through the governments pathetic attempts at mind control.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleBuddha5254
addict
Registered: 04/22/00
Posts: 532
Re: American Propaganda [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1498366 - 04/27/03 05:53 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, and many of them frequent this message board


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: American Propaganda [Re: Buddha5254]
    #1498410 - 04/27/03 06:10 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

haha so true.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleRevelation

 User Gallery

Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,135
Loc: heart cave
Re: American Propaganda [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1498453 - 04/27/03 06:30 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

American TV is shockingly bad. That's all I have to say.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 16 years, 30 days
Re: American Propaganda [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1498462 - 04/27/03 06:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

It's a slant, alright.


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAngry Mycologist
Spontaneouslycombusting

Registered: 11/24/02
Posts: 1,282
Loc: Galapagos
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1498485 - 04/27/03 06:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I don't watch TV anymore. This neo-nazi patriotism destroys my frontal lobes.

And....sadly, yes, many in the population would never question such "commercials". Did you expect them to? 40% thought Iraqi's flew the planes into the twin towers.


--------------------
The proper penalty of ignorance, which is of course that those who don't know should learn from those who do... - Plato


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Angry Mycologist]
    #1499183 - 04/27/03 11:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

that's pretty fucked up if that 40% statistic is true. I wonder how misleading the question asked was. The group doing the polling could have worded it to bring out that statistic..

But it does seem that Americans believe Bin Laden and Hussein are close chums, which is fucked up.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRadioActiveSlug
addict

Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 530
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1499484 - 04/28/03 12:49 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

A recent AOL poll found that 67% of polled aol users think we should "Punish France"


--------------------
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned." -Buddha
www.impeach-bush-now.org


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: American Propaganda [Re: RadioActiveSlug]
    #1499501 - 04/28/03 12:52 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Well they are AOL users. Did you expect someone who pays extra for inferior sevice to be intelligent?


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: American Propaganda [Re: z@z.com]
    #1499514 - 04/28/03 12:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)



--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRadioActiveSlug
addict

Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 530
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: z@z.com]
    #1499551 - 04/28/03 01:09 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

That's what we have to work with kids.

i've driven from one coast of this fine country to the other, and back.

And i realized one thing
this country is full of stupid hicks. Peoplethink what their told to think by the TV, they shop to support the same coperations that exploit them
They use phosphate house hold cleaners that give them cancer and wreak havock on the enviorment of the very earth that supports their lives,
they line their land with toxic pesdicides, that kill all insects, pests and helpful, they spray their bug free grass with toxic herbacides, to kill anyplant besides the one they need to make sure their lawn looks EXACTLY like eveyone elses.

then they;
Quote:

...pay extra for inferior sevice...




and that's not even the tip of the iceburg


--------------------
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned." -Buddha
www.impeach-bush-now.org


Edited by RadioActiveSlug (04/28/03 01:11 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: American Propaganda [Re: RadioActiveSlug]
    #1500034 - 04/28/03 05:55 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Define Punish France.

I'm all for not buying their products but they should not be threatened with force or through sanctions.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500047 - 04/28/03 06:25 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"I'm all for not buying their products "

why wont you buy their products?


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: American Propaganda [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1500053 - 04/28/03 06:39 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Because i don't want to. It's great having the right to buy what you want or don't want. They stabbed us in the back so i'm expressing my distaste for them the only way i can.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezeronio
Stranger
Male

Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 2,349
Loc: Slovenia
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500087 - 04/28/03 07:59 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

That's because you bought the propaganda, that resoultion would come trough if France wouldn't announce veto. The reality is that France wouldn't even have to use veto because USA failed to get a simple majority in security council.
Most of the world was against intervention, not only France.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: American Propaganda [Re: zeronio]
    #1500101 - 04/28/03 08:24 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

That's because you bought the propaganda




Is that all you libbies can say? Anything that the socialist left doesn't agree with is "Propaganda"...

Quote:

that resoultion would come trough if France wouldn't announce veto.




what?

Quote:

The reality is that France wouldn't even have to use veto because USA failed to get a simple majority in security council.




then why did they threaten it no matter what the result would be? They have that right and we as americans have the right to not accept the french.

Quote:

Most of the world was against intervention, not only France.




except for the 50+ countries that supported it.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinejimsuzo
I am the Eggman

Registered: 08/14/02
Posts: 269
Loc: Land of the not-so-free
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500113 - 04/28/03 08:47 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Because i don't want to. It's great having the right to buy what you want or don't want.




Indeed it is great to have that right.

I hate to draw fire from folks that I'm usually aligned with, but I kinda think that the French should have towed the American line - no matter how fucked up it was and still is. The bottom line is that the French owe the USA big-time. If it weren't for us, those bastards - and all of Europe for that matter - would be speaking German right now. It's just not nice to shit on people that have saved your ass. I hope for their sake they never need it saved again.

I, on the other hand, owe our fine government nothing and will shit upon George W. Bush Jr. and will boycott brand America at every opportunity.

Boycott Brand America


--------------------
There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million


Edited by jimsuzo (04/28/03 08:50 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: American Propaganda [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1500115 - 04/28/03 08:52 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I, on the other hand, owe our fine government nothing and will shit upon George W. Bush Jr. and will boycott brand America at every opportunity.



As long as you realize that you still have the freedom to do so. God willing that will never change.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: American Propaganda [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1500122 - 04/28/03 08:59 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I hate to draw fire from folks that I'm usually aligned with, but I kinda think that the French should have towed the American line - no matter how fucked up it was and still is. The bottom line is that the French owe the USA big-time. If it weren't for us, those bastards - and all of Europe for that matter - would be speaking German right now. It's just not nice to shit on people that have saved your ass. I hope for their sake they never need it saved again. 




What have you done with the REAL Jimsuzo? :confused: i'm scared.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1500185 - 04/28/03 09:43 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:


The bottom line is that the French owe the USA big-time. If it weren't for us, those bastards - and all of Europe for that matter - would be speaking German right now. It's just not nice to shit on people that have saved your ass. I hope for their




And do we, in our infinite wisdom, forget the fact that WE, as a Country, would be subjects of the British Monarchy if it wasnt for France bailing our ass out in the Revolution? Hell, my politics teacher tells me we still havent paid back the money we owe them from that one. Really though, any country we help should back us no matter what? That sounds pretty fucking scary to me.

Since France helped us out that one time, I guess we better do whatever their party line is, eh? Ridiculous....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1500219 - 04/28/03 09:56 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

jimsuzo writes:

I hate to draw fire from folks that I'm usually aligned with, but I kinda think that the French should have towed the American line - no matter how fucked up it was and still is.

I disagree. You can only get so much mileage out of that "we saved them from the Nazis" argument, and the fact that six decades ago Americans and Canadians and English stormed Normandy and liberated Western Europe doesn't mean that France must march in rigid lockstop to everything the US asks for all eternity.

In a way, they even did the US a favor by telling the world in advance that they would use their veto power -- it at least let the US stop wasting its energy on the UN security council.

France had its reasons for opposing the war, albeit economic ones (the loss of oil contracts, the loss of the largest weapons-buying customer in the region), and it is naive to believe that the French hold the same view of the world that Americans do. They don't even hold the same view of the world that their neighbors in Europe do. This shouldn't be news to anyone. Those who feel strongly enough about it can easily just boycott French products and businesses -- no need to make it a national policy.

Of course, the thought of France playing any significant role in the reconstruction of Iraq is a non-starter, but that shouldn't make a difference -- there are enough other countries around to lend a hand that the job will get done without France's help.

pinky


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1500220 - 04/28/03 09:56 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Monarchy if it wasnt for France bailing our ass out in the Revolution?




France never bailed us out during the revolution, that's rediculous. They came in at the end with any sort of numbers.

Quote:

Hell, my politics teacher tells me we still havent paid back the money we owe them from that one.




your politics teacher is a knob.

Quote:

Since France helped us out that one time, I guess we better do whatever their party line is, eh? Ridiculous....




I recommend you do some homework on Frances involvment in the revolutionary war, you may be surprised.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500289 - 04/28/03 10:21 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"I recommend you do some homework on Frances involvment in the revolutionary war, you may be surprised. "

Well of course they had reasons for doing it. Tell me one time that America had military involvement in any other country that didnt involve itself? And you disagree that the French involvement was a major point in Britain surrendering? Funny that every History text I've ever read disagrees with you....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1500309 - 04/28/03 10:29 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Well of course they had reasons for doing it. Tell me one time that America had military involvement in any other country that didnt involve itself?




i wasn't talking about reasons for involvment i was talking about the the amount of involvement. The french did not play a huge part of the revolutionary war.

Quote:

Funny that every History text I've ever read disagrees with you....




really? show me where. I never said they weren't involved, it just wasn't to the point where they were the deciding factor. I don't deny they helped us but to say we haven't paid our debt is just plain wrong if not a bit silly...we did help them in 2 world wars.

Believe me, americans do appreciate the help from the French, but to say that they were the deciding factor is just plain wrong.

This is a nice timeline:

Events leading up to the War
The French and Indian War (1754-63)
The Sugar Act (4/5/1764)
The Stamp Act (3/22/1765)
Patrick Henry's "If This Be Treason" speech (5/29/1765)
The Stamp Act Congress (10/7-25/1765)
Townshend Act (6/29/1767)
Disturbances in Boston
The Boston Massacre (3/5/1770)
The Boston Tea Party (12/16/1773)
The First Continental Congress (Philadelphia, 9/5-10/26/1774)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1775: The War Begins
The Rides of Paul Revere and William Dawes (4/18)
The Battles of Lexington and Concord (4/19)
Ethan Allen and the Green Mountain Boys Seize Fort Ticonderoga (5/10)
The Second Continental Congress (met in Philadelphia, 5/10)
Washington named Commander in Chief (6/15)
Battle of Bunker Hill (fought on Breed's Hill) (6/17)
Montgomery captures Montreal for Americans (11/13)
Benedict Arnold's failed attack on Quebec (12/30)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1776: The Year of Independence
Paine's "Common Sense" published (1/15)
Patriot triumph at Moore's Creek, NC (2/27)
Continental fleet captures New Providence Island in the Bahamas (3/3)
The British evacuate Boston (3/17)
Richard Henry Lee proposes Independence (6/7)
British defence of Fort Moultrie, SC (6/28)
Declaration of Independence adopted (7/4)
Declaration of Independence signed (8/2)
Arrival of 30,000 British troops in New York harbor
British win the Battle of Long Island (Battle of Brooklyn) (8/27-30)
British occupy New York City (9/15)
British win the Battle of Harlem Heights (9/16)
Benedict Arnold defeated at Lake Champlain (10/11)
American retreat at the Battle of White Plains (10/28)
British capture Fort Washington, NY and Fort Lee, NJ (11/16)
Washington Crosses the Delaware and captures Trenton (12/26)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1777: The War for the North
Washington wins the Battle of Princeton (1/3)
Washington winters in Morristown, NJ (1/6-5/28)
Flag Resolution (flag possibly designed by Hopkinson, likely sewn by Betsy Ross) (6/14)
St. Clair surrenders Fort Ticonderoga to the British (7/5)
Lafayette arrives in Philadelphia (7/27)
Americans under Herkimer defeat the British under St. Leger at Fort Stanwix, in the Mohawk Valley in Oriskany, New York (8/6)
American Militia under General Stark triumph over Hessians at Bennington (8/16)
British General Howe lands at Head of Elk, Maryland (8/25)
British success at the Battle of Brandywine, PA (9/11)
Rain-out at the Battle of the Clouds, PA (9/16)
Burgoyne checked by Americans under Gates at Freeman's Farm, NY (9/19)
Paoli Massacre, PA (9/21)
British under Howe occupy Philadelphia (9/26)
Americans driven off at the Battle of Germantown (10/4)
Burgoyne loses second battle of Freeman's Farm, NY (at Bemis Heights) (10/7)
Burgoyne surrenders to American General Gates at Saratoga, NY (10/17)
Hessian attack on Fort Mercer, NJ repulsed (10/22)
British capture Fort Mifflin, PA (11/16)
Americans repulse British at Whitemarsh, PA (12/5-7)
The Winter at Valley Forge, PA (12/19/77-6/19/78)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1778: Valley Forge and the French Alliance
The French Alliance (2/6)
British General William Howe replaced by Henry Clinton (3/7)
Van Steuben arrives at Valley Forge
Battle of Barren Hill, PA (5/20)
Washington fights to a draw at Battle of Monmouth (6/28)
George Rogers Clark captured Kaskaskia, a French village near Detroit (7/4)
French and American forces besiege Newport, RI (8/8)
British occupy Savannah, GA (12/29)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1779: The War Spreads
Militia beat Tories at Kettle Creek, NC (2/14)
American George Rogers Clark captures Vincennes on the Wabash in the Western campaign (2/25)
Fairfield, CT, burned by British (7/8)
Norwalk, CT, burned by British (7/11)
American "Mad" Anthony Wayne captures Stony Point, NY (7/15-16)
"Light Horse" Harry Lee attacks Paulus Hook, NJ (8/19)
John Paul Jones, aboard the Bonhomme Richard, captures British man-of-war Serapis near English coast (9/23)
The Tappan Massacre ("No Flint" Grey kills 30 Americans by bayonet) (9/28)
American attempt to recapture Savannah, GA fails (10/9)
Coldest Winter of the war, Washington at Morristown, NJ

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1780: The Campaign for the South
British capture Charleston, SC (5/12)
British crush Americans at Waxhaw Creek, SC (5/29)
Patriots rout Tories at Ramseur's Mill, NC (6/20)
French troops arrive at Newport, RI, to aid the American cause (7/11)
Patriots defeat Tories at Hanging Rock, SC (8/6)
British rout Americans at Camden, SC (8/16)
Benedict Arnold's plans to cede West Point to the British discovered (9/25)
King's Mountain, SC: battle lasted 65 minutes. American troops led by Isaac Shelby and John Sevier defeated Maj. Patrick Ferguson and one-third of General Cornwallis' army. (10/7)
Washington names Nathanael Greene commander of the Southern Army (10/14)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1781: All But Done
Mutiny of unpaid Pennsylvania soldiers (1/1)
Patriot Morgan overwhelming defeated British Col. Tarleton at Cowpens, SC (1/17)
Articles of Confederation adopted (3/2)
British win costly victory at Guilford Courthouse, NC (3/15)
Greene defeated at Hobkirk's Hill, SC (4/25)
Corwallis clashed with Greene at Guilford Courthouse, NC (5/15)
Americans recapture Augusta, GA (6/6)
British hold off Americans at Ninety Six, SC (6/18)
"Mad" Anthony Wayne repulsed at Green Springs Farm, VA (7/6)
Greene defeated at Eutaw Springs, SC (9/8)
French fleet drove British naval force from Chesapeake Bay (9/15)
Cornwallis surrounded on land and sea by Americans and French and surrenders at Yorktown, VA (10/19)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1782 and Beyond
Lord North resigned as British Prime Minister (3/20/82)
British evacuated Savannah, GA (7/11/82)
British sign Articles of Peace (11/30/82)
British leave Charleston, SC (12/14/82)
Congress ratifies preliminary peace treaty (4/19/83)
Treaty of Paris (9/3/83)
British troops leave New York (11/25/83)
Washington Resigns as Commander (12/23/83)
U.S. Constitution ratified (9/17/87)


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (04/28/03 10:42 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500331 - 04/28/03 10:41 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

And we played a huge part in World War 1? Germany wasnt just about ready to surrender when we came in? We just sat in some trenches while they ran out of will to fight...

And according to army.mil...After several days of maneuvering at sea, Graves retired temporarily to New York for repairs, leaving the French fleet in control of Chesapeake Bay. This permitted Washington and Rochambeau to embark their forces in Maryland and sail via the Chesapeake and the James River to a point near Williamsburg (14-24 September). From there an allied army numbering about 15,000-8,845 Americans and 7,800 French moved forward on 28 September to begin siege operations against Yorktown.

It would seem to ME, that being Yorktown was really the end of British hopes, AND being that we wouldnt have been able to fight at Yorktown, if not for the French, that they did play a major role in said war, yes? No? I wont be able to reply for an hour or so...Silly English class, but do respond...Getting my brain working this early in the day is good...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleBuddha5254
addict
Registered: 04/22/00
Posts: 532
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500341 - 04/28/03 10:47 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Invert, I can see where you are coming from on this, although I dont think it is right. THere are people that feel France still somehow owes us something, and that is their opinion. But I think that by not buying something French like wine or cheese, is just hurting some average French Joe who has nothing to do with Frances foreign policy, just as we have no say in our own foreign policy. I just think that it is directed at the wrong person. Now Jean-Michel on his own vineyard will have to bust his ass just to make up for the Americans that stopped buying his wine because of stupid politics.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleBuddha5254
addict
Registered: 04/22/00
Posts: 532
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500348 - 04/28/03 10:49 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

50+? What, I thought it was thirty other powerful and influential countries like Tonga, Albania, and the Marshall Islands, and human rights lovers from Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleBuddha5254
addict
Registered: 04/22/00
Posts: 532
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500351 - 04/28/03 10:54 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

That looks like a pretty significant role they played in the revolution.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinegrib
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/01/03
Posts: 550
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500356 - 04/28/03 10:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

They stabbed us in the back




How? I'm curious, do you consider standing up to Bush being 'stabbed in the back'? If that's the case, they did not stab me, an American, in the back. I am grateful for their strength in standing up to the Bush administration.

Bush est un con. Viva la France!!!

**edit - It's a different subject, but... I know many French who speak better English than Bush. That's embarrassing.


--------------------
<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


Edited by grib (04/28/03 11:09 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: grib]
    #1500423 - 04/28/03 11:31 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Blind Loyalty is for Dogs and Marines. Anyone else, Individual or Country, gets whatever comes to them, and has no right to complain. While I'm not necessarily (anymore) anti-war, I dont think the rest of the world, no matter who you are, has any responsibility to say "The U.S. is for it, therefore, we follow you". If they have a serious internal debate in the country, and come down Pro-War, or Anti-War, whichever they choose, its the right decision for them, right? If they wanted to be American lackies, they'd become a territory like Puerto Rico...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,256
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Buddha5254]
    #1500429 - 04/28/03 11:35 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Here is the list of countries that I found in google that supported the War on Iraq... here

"Afghanistan, Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Colombia, the Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Hungary, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, the Netherlands, Nicaragua, the Philippines, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, South Korea, Spain, Turkey, the United Kingdom and Uzbekistan."

"Mr Powell said. "There are 15 other nations who for one reason or another do not yet wish to be publicly named but will be supporting the coalition."

"There are five Arab countries too, but they insist they are opposed to attacking Iraq and instead are limiting their role to the defence of Kuwait."










--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Rono]
    #1500443 - 04/28/03 11:49 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Hmm...I can pick at least 5 out of that list who have human rights records relatively equal to Iraq's. And the Arab countries? Please...Saudi Arabia is merely hoping they arent next...Iran just wants their fingers in the pie, Bahrain is making millions off the presence of a U.S. fleet base there...Most of the countries in Eastern Europe are looking for U.S. foreign aid, and this is any easy way to say they're friends with America.

All in all, these are low-risk allies...Which of the above list actually sent troops or supplies? Britain, Australia, Poland and Japan...

And while the above list is of GOVERNMENTS who are okay with our war, it would be good to note that the populations of many of the countries listed are at best, split on the subject, and at the worst, are vehemently opposed to it.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Buddha5254]
    #1500463 - 04/28/03 12:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Invert, I can see where you are coming from on this, although I dont think it is right. THere are people that feel France still somehow owes us something,




I would say that they owe us at least a little respect but to say that they owe us for every single thing would be a little much.

Quote:

But I think that by not buying something French like wine or cheese, is just hurting some average French Joe who has nothing to do with Frances foreign policy




Then maybe those french citizins will revolt against those that caused the whole problem in the first place (depending on who you are i suppose).

Quote:

just as we have no say in our own foreign policy.




We do have a say, it's just that those that are opposed are in the minority at the moment. I don't mind putting a little fear into our enemies lives and i would imagine that this opinion is shared by many that agree with the action in Iraq.

Quote:

I just think that it is directed at the wrong person. Now Jean-Michel on his own vineyard will have to bust his ass just to make up for the Americans that stopped buying his wine because of stupid politics.




it will affect france higher up. It may affect Joe-Frence Guy but MANY americans are pissed at French opposition and feel that they have been duped. I agree. Don't get me wrong, i don't want a war with France, but just teach them a little lesson at the local level.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Buddha5254]
    #1500468 - 04/28/03 12:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

50+? What, I thought it was thirty other powerful and influential countries like Tonga, Albania, and the Marshall Islands, and human rights lovers from Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan




I think it was somewhere around 39 plus 15 others. These countries have the same right to speak as the third rate countries of Russia and France.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500469 - 04/28/03 12:04 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Don't get me wrong, i don't want a war with France, but just teach them a little lesson at the local level.[quote/]

And, what is the lesson you would like to teach them? Elaborate please? That its not okay to follow your concience? That the U.S. is infalliable, so they better fall in lock-step?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: American Propaganda [Re: grib]
    #1500472 - 04/28/03 12:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

That looks like a pretty significant role they played in the revolution.




not really. It was greatly appreciated and it helped us in the long run but the results would have been the same. Don't get me wrong, i know they helped us, just not to the point many want it to be. To say that we haven't paid them back for it is rather funny.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500490 - 04/28/03 12:13 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"To say that we haven't paid them back for it is rather funny."

I dont think that is whats being implied. I just dont think that because we helped them out once or twice, that they should be indebted to us 50 or 80 years later. Did they not participate in Yugoslavia and Gulf War 1? In the end, if you want to demonize them for not participating in a war which they felt was not in their best interests, do so. But dont try to sorround it in a false air of legitimacy....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinegrib
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/01/03
Posts: 550
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500493 - 04/28/03 12:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I didn't think that you would answer  :smirk: 


--------------------
<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: American Propaganda [Re: grib]
    #1500523 - 04/28/03 12:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

answer what?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1500547 - 04/28/03 12:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I dont think that is whats being implied. I just dont think that because we helped them out once or twice, that they should be indebted to us 50 or 80 years later.




I'm not boycotting them because they didn't want to fight (they're french). I'm boycotting them because they went out of their way in stabbing us in the back by signing onto 1441 then backing off and threatening a veto when just months earlier they made a promise. There is a history of French opposition to the us . This is their right but so is it ours to boycott them.

Quote:

But dont try to sorround it in a false air of legitimacy....




you're trying to put motives where thewre is none.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500730 - 04/28/03 02:17 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"I'm boycotting them because they went out of their way in stabbing us in the back by signing onto 1441 then backing off and threatening a veto when just months earlier they made a promise. "

Where in the resolution does it say that if Iraq doesnt comply, we must invade them? I'll post a link to the text of the resolution here...Serious consequences are mentioned...Is it so far out of line for different cultures to have different interpretations of the same thing?

On a side note, I think I'm about done with this thread...<pants> I do enjoy it though...Debating is fun stuff...We'll see if anything gets posted that riles me up enough to post again....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1500731 - 04/28/03 02:18 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)



--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1500740 - 04/28/03 02:22 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Where in the resolution does it say that if Iraq doesnt comply, we must invade them?




I've had this debate before and it says that if Iraq doesn't comply with 1441 the there will be serious consequences. Those serious consequences were understood. What were we supposed to do, threaten them with a noogie?

Quote:

Is it so far out of line for different cultures to have different interpretations of the same thing?




yes it is...it's also no surprise since Germany, France and russia had been supplying them with weapons and technology in DIREST violation of the sanctions that THEY argeed with. Where i come from that is a breach of contract.

Quote:

On a side note, I think I'm about done with this thread... I do enjoy it though...Debating is fun stuff...We'll see if anything gets posted that riles me up enough to post again....




you're fun to debate with, come back more often.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1500755 - 04/28/03 02:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

  Where in the resolution does it say that if Iraq doesnt comply, we must invade them?




I've had this debate before and it says that if Iraq doesn't comply with 1441 the there will be serious consequences.  Those serious consequences were understood.  What were we supposed to do, threaten them with a noogie 




Actually this was a bit more serious....a purple nurple should have sufficed! :grin:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1500764 - 04/28/03 02:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

that or a wedgie :grin:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineCeeEssGee
Canadian-American

Registered: 09/29/02
Posts: 1,894
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1500765 - 04/28/03 02:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Okay, I don't "fall" for anything. There is, however, a problem with many of the people who argue that all american media (or at least, CNN, especially) is propaganda. The reason is, people like radioactive slug say "ooh, this is propaganda, lookie here because my internet site567 says so, hyuk!" Hey, I believe robots are going to take over the world, proof here.

So, you don't think american troops are heroes? So what, some people do, and not because of the media, because they understand the sacrifice. It's an opinion-related matter, and has very little to do with facts.

Anything that doesn't agree with your opinions will be dismissed as propaganda, and anything that does, well, that's automatically a credible source, right? Right.



--------------------
Why, sirrah, why may a caudled fillhorse be deemed the brother to a hiren candle in the night? Withal, because a candle may be greased, yet a fillhorse be without a fat argier!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: CeeEssGee]
    #1500778 - 04/28/03 02:35 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

There is, however, a problem with many of the people who argue that all american media (or at least, CNN, especially) is propaganda.




Dare you suggest CNN is not propoganda?! I agree some of the opposite sites are just as bad though!


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleCracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,799
Loc: Swamp
Re: American Propaganda [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1500793 - 04/28/03 02:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I read some Abstinence propaganda today "6% of the time condoms will break"

Is that not fucking rediculous


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineI_Fart_Blue
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 3,495
Loc: SItting on the Group W Be...
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1500800 - 04/28/03 02:41 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Why is that rediculous? Do you have any proof otherwise, or is this another case of you dismissing something because it doesn't fall into your personal realm of experience?


--------------------
"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1500809 - 04/28/03 02:44 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"There is, however, a problem with many of the people who argue that all american media (or at least, CNN, especially) is propaganda. "

Damnit, I have no willpower...Fucking Drugs. This is a completely ridiculous statement...Its obvious that the media is biased to anyone. Not that its only the American media...Al-Jazeera is just as biased. But watch CNN for an hour, then FoxNews for an hour, and tell me the two arent radically different. They are, which means one must be putting a slant on the news, ya? In my opinion, FoxNews is a very conservative, pro-Bush network, while CNBC/CNN balances things out...I'm not complaining....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1500812 - 04/28/03 02:45 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

6% sounds credible to me, even though it sounds made up... :smirk:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineCeeEssGee
Canadian-American

Registered: 09/29/02
Posts: 1,894
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1500840 - 04/28/03 02:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"Dare you suggest CNN is not propoganda?! I agree some of the opposite sites are just as bad though!"

Yes, I did dare to suggest it, is there a problem with this? Feel free to rebut, though I suggest you slow down to type, this time.


--------------------
Why, sirrah, why may a caudled fillhorse be deemed the brother to a hiren candle in the night? Withal, because a candle may be greased, yet a fillhorse be without a fat argier!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: American Propaganda [Re: CeeEssGee]
    #1500982 - 04/28/03 03:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

forget boycotting. we should try to oust France from the security council. seriously. They have way more power than they deserve. I mean look at this list of the five permanent members... United States, China, Russia, Great Britain and.... FRANCE!?!?!?! WTF? they have no business being in there.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1501023 - 04/28/03 03:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I hate to draw fire from folks that I'm usually aligned with, but I kinda think that the French should have towed the American line - no matter how fucked up it was and still is. The bottom line is that the French owe the USA big-time. If it weren't for us, those bastards - and all of Europe for that matter - would be speaking German right now. It's just not nice to shit on people that have saved your ass. I hope for their sake they never need it saved again.





IMO, Europe, and the rest of the world, has long since repaid any debt to the U.S. for whatever role we played in the outcome of a war over 50 years ago. This would not necessarily be the case if the U.S. had not behaved in such a way as it has in those fifty years. Again, I encourage you all to read the post url=http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.phpCat=&Board=Forum14&Number=1485957&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1]wolves and sheep[/url]
and consider the ideologies Goff et all suggest that have driven first the neoliberals and their multilateral attitude of living high and now the neocons and their unilateral attitude of living high. The whole thing has been a sham.

Sorry, I don't know why it won't convert the URL into a link. I'm going to go ahead and bump "Wolves and Sheep"

hongomon


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1501057 - 04/28/03 04:04 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I read some Abstinence propaganda today "6% of the time condoms will break"

Is that not fucking rediculous




That's because 6% of the users don't make sure to prevent a pocket of air forming in the tip. Yer s'posedta pinch the end as you put 'er on.

This fact has been fabricated.

hongomon


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1501191 - 04/28/03 04:48 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I think it was somewhere around 39 plus 15 others.

And how many do you think really agreed with the US or had simply been warned "Fuck with us and we'll screw with your economy?"


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1501212 - 04/28/03 04:54 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

if Iraq doesn't comply with 1441 the there will be serious consequences. Those serious consequences were understood.

Yes, they were understood not to mean military force. Which, btw, is the only reason 1441 got passed in the first place. If it had meant military force France and Germany would have vetoed it then.

Everyone knew it didn't authorise military action which is why the US and UK were so desperate to get a second resolution authorising military force. They failed.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Xlea321]
    #1501221 - 04/28/03 04:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Yes, they were understood not to mean military force.



I must have missed that when I read the resolution. Perhaps you'd be so kind as to show us where it says that?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: American Propaganda [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1501252 - 04/28/03 05:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

it's called strategic ambiguity. everyone "understood" that.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: American Propaganda [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1501284 - 04/28/03 05:09 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

it's called strategic ambiguity. everyone "understood" that.




Apparently not everyone.

No-one should ever sign an ambiguous document.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: American Propaganda [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1501297 - 04/28/03 05:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

why do you think 1441 didn't specify military action?
because if it did, it would have been vetoed.
and if 1441 ruled out military action, it wouldn't have been supported by the US.
"serious consequences" is intentionally ambiguous so no one would object to it.

this kind of thing happens all the time in politics.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: American Propaganda [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1501310 - 04/28/03 05:15 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

By leaving it out, the door was left open for any "serious consequences."

Would you sign a contract with that clause in it?

Are the French and the Russians so stupid as to not have understood what that meant? Or at least that it was a possibility? If so then they shouldn't be on the security council at all.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1501335 - 04/28/03 05:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

"Are the French and the Russians so stupid as to not have understood what that meant? "

So, by your same logic...Are the American so STUPID as to not have changed the wording to read exactly "Use of Force"? I mean, since your so completely positive that "Everyone Knew What It Meant".

If EVERYONE knew what it meant, they probably would have just gone out and said it, yes?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1501358 - 04/28/03 05:24 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

"Are the French and the Russians so stupid as to not have understood what that meant? "

So, by your same logic...Are the American so STUPID as to not have changed the wording to read exactly "Use of Force"? I mean, since your so completely positive that "Everyone Knew What It Meant".

If EVERYONE knew what it meant, they probably would have just gone out and said it, yes?



Why would the US want to change a term in the resolution that was what they wanted in the first place?

The US knew exactly what leaving the ambiguity in the resolution meant.

I'll ask again.... do you think the French and Russians are so stupid they didn't know?

Also.... do you think they would do the same if they felt it was in thier best interests?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1501360 - 04/28/03 05:25 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Exactly. the wording: "serious consequences" was carefully selected to mean either. it's ambiguous. so it satisfies both sides and passes without too much of a fight. The French and Russians probably understood that America would use force, but they would have never signed a resolution that actually, specifically authorized force.



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: American Propaganda [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1501366 - 04/28/03 05:27 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Exactly. the wording: "serious consequences" was carefully selected to mean either. it's ambiguous. so it satisfies both sides and passes without too much of a fight. The French and Russians probably understood that America would use force, but they would have never signed a resolution that actually, specifically authorized force.



Exactly.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
Re: American Propaganda [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1501467 - 04/28/03 06:00 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

hehe.....its funny when american dont know what really happened in the world wars, and they think america just swept in and won the wars.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: American Propaganda [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1501471 - 04/28/03 06:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Is there some reason you're incapable of responding to the right person?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
Re: American Propaganda [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1501502 - 04/28/03 06:13 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

yes, i am enlightened and I no longer possess the ability to distinguish humans as individuals, because I realize that everything in this reality is interconnects, and that the "self" is an illusion.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: American Propaganda [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1501527 - 04/28/03 06:21 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

You gotta admit that thats a pretty good answer luvdemshrooms.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: American Propaganda [Re: z@z.com]
    #1501546 - 04/28/03 06:26 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

You gotta admit that thats a pretty good answer luvdemshrooms.



Yes, it's the kind of answer I would have loved to think of.
(even if it's total bullshit, which is what makes it so good)

Kudos to you funky.
(click the right reply anyway, would you?)


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (04/28/03 06:28 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineNoamchomsky
sociolistos
Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 3
Loc: Hell, texas, Hell
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1501717 - 04/28/03 07:11 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Have any of you *** Edited by Evolving *** ever read Noam chomsky. Only *** Edited by Evolving *** have listened can you in any way coment on propaganda. CeeEssGee, and Innvertigo are very fucking anoying. *** Edited by Evolving *** This is in response to your coments on military intelligence. War solves no more than a government solves. Granted I am being a total ass hole but you really should read some noam chomsky before you even talk about politics. Hes a profeser at MIT and I consider him to be the most important intelectual at the current date. Sociolism is democracy, mixed with an economic style where the rich have to give back just as much as they take away. Thus creating a society that actually works. Anyways, America sucks, and so do conservitives and *** Edited by Evolving *** who make coments that are not suported by rational thought.

*** Attention ***
This is the second post of yours that I have read and that I have had to edit. Keep this up and you will be banned. Please read the political forum rules.

Thank You,

Evolving

**************


Edited by Evolving (04/28/03 07:38 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Noamchomsky]
    #1501720 - 04/28/03 07:14 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Chomsky is an idiot.

Edit: why don't you smoke a few bowls and chill out before you post again.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


Edited by z@z.com (04/28/03 07:14 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Noamchomsky]
    #1501753 - 04/28/03 07:26 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

wow, yet another example of our failing public education system...keep it up genius :grin:



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (04/28/03 07:27 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: American Propaganda [Re: z@z.com]
    #1501758 - 04/28/03 07:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

he's a puppet that's too much of a coward to actually use his "real" username...


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,244
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Noamchomsky]
    #1501762 - 04/28/03 07:29 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Where's Rono?

Save us O mighty one!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineCeeEssGee
Canadian-American

Registered: 09/29/02
Posts: 1,894
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Noamchomsky]
    #1501823 - 04/28/03 07:52 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Granted I am being a total ass hole




Yes.

Quote:

you really should read some noam chomsky before you even talk about politics. Hes a profeser at MIT and I consider him to be the most important intelectual at the current date.




Oh, I see, so if we haven't read any material from this ONE professor, we're complete idiots? Let's just disregard the countless other profs who are for and against this issue (What is the issue, anyway? I can't even remember after being subjected to that drivel.)

Quote:

Anyways, America sucks, and so do conservitives and *** Edited by Evolving *** who make coments that are not suported by rational thought.




Yeah, because your "argument" is so stable. I happen to like America. Why? Because I'm able to make posts making fun of idiots like you on a message board dedicated to imbibing illicit narcotics.

Crawl back in to your cave and save yourself the embarassment of trying to reply.


--------------------
Why, sirrah, why may a caudled fillhorse be deemed the brother to a hiren candle in the night? Withal, because a candle may be greased, yet a fillhorse be without a fat argier!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleCracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,799
Loc: Swamp
Re: American Propaganda [Re: I_Fart_Blue]
    #1501872 - 04/28/03 08:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Why is that rediculous? Do you have any proof otherwise, or is this another case of you dismissing something because it doesn't fall into your personal realm of experience?




There's scientific evidence that condoms work 99% of the time.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1501893 - 04/28/03 08:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Why is that rediculous? Do you have any proof otherwise, or is this another case of you dismissing something because it doesn't fall into your personal realm of experience?




There's scientific evidence that condoms work 99% of the time.



No, definitely not 99% of the time. That's about the effectiveness of condoms and birth control pill COMBINED.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineI_Fart_Blue
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 3,495
Loc: SItting on the Group W Be...
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1501920 - 04/28/03 08:29 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Well prove it chief.


--------------------
"A study of the history of opinion is a necessary preliminary to the emancipation of the mind. I do not know which makes a man more conservative-to know nothing but the present, or nothing but the past." -John Maynard Keynes


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleCracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,799
Loc: Swamp
Re: American Propaganda [Re: silversoul7]
    #1501923 - 04/28/03 08:31 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

yea I got it mixed up with birth control.

Birth control is a 99% effectivness

Effectiveness = Male condom: 88% or higher, Female condom: 80% when used correctly and highest when used with a spermicide.

http://www.gynpages.com/acu/preg.html


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: American Propaganda [Re: silversoul7]
    #1501928 - 04/28/03 08:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I have a friend who got pregnant while using a condom and birth control. Nothing is 100%.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
Re: American Propaganda [Re: z@z.com]
    #1502052 - 04/28/03 09:02 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

telling people to read noam chomsky does not make you look smart, saying that noam chomsky is an idiot makes you look dumb.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinezeronio
Stranger
Male

Registered: 10/16/01
Posts: 2,349
Loc: Slovenia
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1503692 - 04/29/03 09:28 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Punishing opposition is not very democratic. That's what totalitarian regimes do.

I feel sorry for you if you have only friends that never dare to criticize. :smile:
Such friends will be the first to stab you in the back. 


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: American Propaganda [Re: zeronio]
    #1503804 - 04/29/03 10:23 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Punishing opposition is not very democratic.




Neither is selling arms to your best friend's enemies....but I'm sure you knew that.

Quote:

I feel sorry for you if you have only friends that never dare to criticize.




They are more than welcome to criticize, but to go behind your back to violate a trust that was formed through being allies should NEVER be welcomed.

You need to drop the recess mentality when it comes to the relationships in the real world. France and Russia both violated their promises (i know many libbies here couldn't care less) but the fact remains what they did will PERMANENTLY mare the relationships between our country and theirs. If you find nothing wrong with the French actions then there is really no hope in you ever understanding why WE feel the way we do.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1503829 - 04/29/03 10:35 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"France and Russia both violated their promises (i know many libbies here couldn't care less) but the fact remains what they did will PERMANENTLY mare the relationships between our country and theirs."

Let me ask you this. Assuming France/Russia DID renege on a deal, which I dont believe they did, why would this PERMANENTLY mess up the countries relationship? What help would France have been? From what I understand from the first Gulf War, the U.S. troops said most coalition forces were just in the way. I can see if your saying in the standpoint of international politics, that France not going with us told other countries it was okay....

But you've said on the boards here before, that we had a big group of countries that supported us, so they're influence couldnt have been THAT strong, yes? No?

"They are more than welcome to criticize, but to go behind your back to violate a trust that was formed through being allies should NEVER be welcomed."

And I almost feel bad making this point, because really you cant draw a comparison, but did we not promise to defend the Vietnamese until the last day? After we pulled out troops, we promised them that we would give them material support to match whatever N. Vietnam had. Then, Congress decided they didnt like it, and we didnt do it, after promising them we would.

That said, S. Vietnam was corrupt and its people didnt want to fight. They would have lost anyway. But, we DID betray an ally, so......


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: American Propaganda [Re: z@z.com]
    #1504016 - 04/29/03 11:53 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I have a friend who got pregnant while using a condom and birth control

Was this a right-wing friend?

Perhaps you could suggest he try a beekeeper outfit next time...


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1504061 - 04/29/03 12:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Let me ask you this. Assuming France/Russia DID renege on a deal, which I dont believe they did, why would this PERMANENTLY mess up the countries relationship?




you really can't see why? Well relationships are built on trust. Both countries have violated that trust. Don't get me wrong i don't want to "HATE" them like many libbies believe. I just think when it comes to something like this in the future americans will remember not to trust them. When we're discussing the International space station (which i think is an awesome thing) i am all for working with ALL countries in the pursuit of knowledge. It's just the issue of defense and the likes.

Quote:

But you've said on the boards here before, that we had a big group of countries that supported us, so they're influence couldnt have been THAT strong, yes? No?




why would you say that? Their influence was strong enough wasn't it? we accomplished our tasks with more countries involved than the first gulf war. I would say that the support of the UK, Spain, Japan, Australia and many others are sufficient.

Quote:

And I almost feel bad making this point, because really you cant draw a comparison, but did we not promise to defend the Vietnamese until the last day? After we pulled out troops, we promised them that we would give them material support to match whatever N. Vietnam had. Then, Congress decided they didnt like it, and we didnt do it, after promising them we would.




That's something that should be asked of those cowardly politicians that wouldn't let the military fight it's own war. If the military was in charge the whole time then i'd say that you were right, however there were many promises by the military only to be underminded by the politicians. I was too young to remember any of the "goings on" during that time but the comparison, as you stated, is not even close to what has happened today.

Quote:

That said, S. Vietnam was corrupt and its people didnt want to fight. They would have lost anyway. But, we DID betray an ally, so......




I disagree, we were beat. If Iraq made a promise to defend Syria during this war and we annialated Iraq, what are Iraq's obligations. The vietnam war was lost by the americans even though if we would of fought that war correctly it would have been a cake-walk"...that is OUR weakness.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/25/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1504094 - 04/29/03 12:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

we accomplished our tasks with more countries involved than the first gulf war.

No UN support tho. That's the key point. Without that it's blatantly illegal, no matter if you buy off Tonga to "support" you.

The vietnam war was lost by the americans even though if we would of fought that war correctly it would have been a cake-walk

"Lost" is a debateable term. You still managed to devastate the country, slaughter millions and drop enough chemical weapons to be poisoning and killing people to this day. Not to mention devastating the economy and creating an area ripe for the exploitation of slave labour by the multinationals. You did ok out of the deal. A damn sight better than the Vietnamese.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/24/00
Posts: 2,282
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Xlea321]
    #1504105 - 04/29/03 12:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

drop enough chemical weapons




Name one chemical weapon we used.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,256
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: American Propaganda [Re: wingnutx]
    #1504112 - 04/29/03 12:24 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Agent Orange - The US Army made use of Agent Orange as an anti-plant chemical. It had horrible side effects for soldiers coming into contact with the chemical, causing rashes and even death. Not only did this affect the Vietnamese troops but the US troops as well


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (04/29/03 12:27 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: z@z.com]
    #1504141 - 04/29/03 12:33 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Chomsky is an idiot.




Tired rono?..or can we call people idiots now?


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1504153 - 04/29/03 12:36 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Chomsky is an idiot.




Tired rono?..or can we call people idiots now?



I think that rule only applies when the insult is directed at someone posting on this board, but I could be wrong.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,256
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1504168 - 04/29/03 12:40 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Azmodeus...what exactly is your issue with me? Are you still bitter because I gave you a warning?...get over it.

Obviously the rule is in place to prevent users from flaming other users in this forum...


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (04/29/03 12:42 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1504187 - 04/29/03 12:46 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You still insist that our relations with these 2 countries will remained strained for generations...Americans are a very fickle bunch, and I'm willing to wager that in a few months, everyone is back to their wine, escargot, and Perrier.



"why would you say that? Their influence was strong enough wasn't it? we accomplished our tasks with more countries involved than the first gulf war."

I think you misunderstood a bit. I wasnt stating that some of our Allies made contributions, I was stating that the influence of FRANCE was not strong enough to persuade OTHER countries NOT to join the Coalition.

And, I refuse to succumb and argue about Vietnam...Ciao....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineCeeEssGee
Canadian-American

Registered: 09/29/02
Posts: 1,894
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: wingnutx]
    #1504627 - 04/29/03 02:42 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"Name one chemical weapon we used."

Yeah, agent orange, and napalm.


--------------------
Why, sirrah, why may a caudled fillhorse be deemed the brother to a hiren candle in the night? Withal, because a candle may be greased, yet a fillhorse be without a fat argier!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: CeeEssGee]
    #1504912 - 04/29/03 04:14 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Agent Orange was a chemical. Not a chemical weapon. It was used to defoliate, not kill people.

Thousands are sick/deformed/dying from the pesticides they spray on the field across the street from my house. Same fucking thing....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,256
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1504921 - 04/29/03 04:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

but it did kill people regardless...and unless it was the airforce doing the crop dusting in that field by your house it's not the same thing.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (04/29/03 04:17 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Rono]
    #1504940 - 04/29/03 04:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not arguing, in any way, that Agent Orange killed people. I'm sure it was hell on the environment too. I was merely stating that classifying it as a "Chemical Weapon" is completely ludicrous....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,256
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1504956 - 04/29/03 04:24 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

What would you classify it as now, if we dropped it on Iraq, knowing full well that they would get sick and/or die?


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (04/29/03 04:25 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1504960 - 04/29/03 04:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

How so?! weapons kill people, pesticides sprayed in quantity kill people...

Its a chemical being used as a weapon, so ludicris....mabye, but completely ludicris?!


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1504976 - 04/29/03 04:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Agent Orange was *NOT* dropped on Vietnam with the intention if killing/maiming/harming in any way its citizens. That is a FACT.

If you want to call it a "Chemical Weapon used against Mother Nature", I'll agree with you.

Sarin, which Saddam Hussein used against thousands of Kurds in northern Iraq, was used WITH the intention of killing/maiming/causing harm.



If you cannot see the difference between the two, I dont know how to help you....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,256
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1504986 - 04/29/03 04:32 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Why does everyone keep saying that Saddam used gas on his own people when it has never been proven, and in fact the evidence suggests it was Iran...

The Iranians were known to have used Sarin gas frequently, while Iraq was known for Mustard gas. Saying that Saddam gassed his own people over and over agian does not make it true.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Rono]
    #1504993 - 04/29/03 04:34 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

It does in America, Rono, unfortunately.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Strumpling]
    #1505019 - 04/29/03 04:41 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Item: On 29/March/1987 the Revolutionary Command Council authorizesHassan Ali al Majid, to do "Whatever is necessary to deal with the Kurdish Problem.

Item: 15/April/1987 Chemical attacks directed against 30 villages in Northern Iraq. <sidenote> Do you really think Iraq just let that many Iranian fighter's across the border?

Item: To convince Saddam that his tactics worked, Ali ordered films made of these attacks and their aftermaths.

Item: Since the Iraqi government is so record-crazy, copies of these videos were kept, and during the Kurdish uprising, fell into the hands of the Kurds, who turned them over to international authorities.

Item: If you would like to see the gruesome effects, the entire 18 tons of files and videos can be found at the University of Colorado...

Now, unless your going to claim that these were all faked, which I'm sure you will, I think its been proven.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,256
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1505025 - 04/29/03 04:44 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Really?...then please explain that when Iraq was close with the U.S., an investigation by the Americans showed that it was the Iranians that gassed the kurds..not Saddam..which leaves the question when was your government lying to you?...then or now?

Heres a link for you here and here and here and here


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (04/29/03 04:56 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Rono]
    #1505042 - 04/29/03 04:49 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Well..Considering what I just said had nothing to do with the United States until the tapes were given to us, after going through many other countries/organizations first.

And, I would very much like to see said report. Very very much. Post a link/source?



--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,256
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1505056 - 04/29/03 04:52 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Just click on the links that I provided, my man...or do your own research and let me know what you turn up.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (04/29/03 05:00 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

Registered: 04/07/03
Posts: 1,500
Loc: a human-infested anthill
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Rono]
    #1505338 - 04/29/03 06:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"Agent Orange was a chemical. Not a chemical weapon"

holy shit......agent orange wasnt a weapon??????????

are you out of your mind???? if you drop agent orange on a bunch of soldiers, what is going to happen to them?


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinegrib
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/01/03
Posts: 550
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1505557 - 04/29/03 07:12 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Thousands are sick/deformed/dying from the pesticides they spray on the field across the street from my house. Same fucking thing....




Wow!!! Really?!?! Thousands are sick, deformed and dying because of pesticides they spray across the street from your house? That is, without a doubt, illegal. If people are dying because of what they are using then that is murder.


--------------------
<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1505821 - 04/29/03 08:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

And, I refuse to succumb and argue about Vietnam...Ciao....




you brought it up, not me..sheesh. If you bring something up i'll respond to it. If you don't want it discussed don't bring it up...get it?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1505890 - 04/29/03 09:03 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Few things...First, Sorry Rono, didnt see the links when I posted, I must not 've been paying attention. I look forward to checking those out.

Two, on the issue of Vietnam. I didnt mean that to sound pissy. I'll be more than happy to debate the merits and pitfalls of Vietnam if you'd like, but I suggest we get a more appropriate folder. And on a side note, I dont believe I brought it up.

Three, Its a relatively commonly accepted fact that pesticides sprayed on crops are not good for you. While I was being stupid saying 1000's of people, I stand by the fact that if your going to equate Agent Orange with a chemical weapon, your silly. Look at your standard lists of chemical weapons....
Sarin
VX
Mustard Gas
Chlorine Gas
Roundup Weed Killer.

Now, lets play a little game and pick the oddball out? Can you do it? I sure can...I'm sure the effects of Roundup sprayed over an entire country would produce similar effects, and I dont see it banned by any chemical weapons treaties...Or should I report the Garden Center down the road to the U.N.?!?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Rono]
    #1507147 - 04/30/03 10:34 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"In the first report they wrote: "In September 1988 - a month after the war had ended"


"Having looked at all the evidence that was available to us"

Those are 2 key quotes from the report that you cited Rono. Unfortunately, the Kurdish uprising did not occur until 1990, and it was several more years until all the information obtained was disseminated to the world community. Maybe with "all the evidence that was available to us" they could have made the wrong decision.

In 1800, "All the evidence that was available to us" declared the Black Man inferior. Facts change...Nice try though....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,256
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1507150 - 04/30/03 10:36 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

So are you saying that you still think it was Saddam that gassed the kurds?... I'm not exactly sure how what you've pointed out refutes anything.
P.S....the Kurdish uprising happened in 1988...not 1990...But believe what you want. Don't let facts stand in your way.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (04/30/03 10:44 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Rono]
    #1507241 - 04/30/03 11:14 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

"P.S....the Kurdish uprising happened in 1988...not 1990...But believe what you want. Don't let facts stand in your way. "

Okay. Lets get the FACTS straight, since you claim to be fond of them...

Item: This is from KNN. The Kurdish News Network? I would assume they know their history, much better than you or I.

The Kurdish uprising of 1991 took place after the Coalition Forces' recapture of Kuwait. Encouraged by US calls for the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, and by the rising of the Shi'i Arabs in south Iraq, a popular revolt spread rapidly across Kurdistan during March.

Heres a quote from Baylor Universities website as well...

A third, larger wave of Iraqi Kurds fled Iraq to Turkey and Iran immediately after the failed Kurdish uprising during the Gulf War, in early 1991

And, since the third time's the charm, heres one from The Washington Times...

The Brayti newspaper, run by the Kurdistan Democratic Party, said the grave was near Kanhash in the Kowair province, 24 miles south of Erbil. Kurdish forces captured the town for a few weeks during the 1991 uprising and again after the collapse of the Iraqi regime this month.

Now, Finding all these sources to point out your mistakes is getting a tad tedious. Could we do a bit of research before we post, please?

Now, to respond to your point...

"So are you saying that you still think it was Saddam that gassed the kurds?... I'm not exactly sure how what you've pointed out refutes anything. "

ALL the evidence, EVERY single little piece, points to the clear fact that Saddam gassed his own people. Eyewitness reports, Videotape, Iraqi Government documents. ALL of it. The only refuting evidence that I see is a outdated report from the U.S. Army War College with old, irrelevent information....


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,256
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1507280 - 04/30/03 11:37 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Sorry champ...but the Kurdish uprising where 5000 were gassed by "somebody" was in 1988...you are referring to something else. Do a search on google...use "1988 Kurdish Uprising" If I'm wrong then I will be more than happy to admit it.

Anybody else care to verify this, so that there is no mistake?


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (04/30/03 11:40 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Rono]
    #1507296 - 04/30/03 11:42 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Right, Right. Heres where we're losing each other.

SOMEONE gassed Kurds in 1988. Agreed.

But, the uprising that I was referring to, the 1991 uprising, was when the Kurds conquered some Iraqi territory, and seized the documents/videotaps/evidence of the attack in 1988.

My main point is this: The report you cited was done in 1988. The evidence was seized in 1991. Obviously, the 1991 evidence was not incorporated into the report. Therefore, the report is obsolete.

Does this make sense? Or are we still missing each other?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,256
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: American Propaganda [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1507329 - 04/30/03 11:53 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I think this is a topic that is worthy of it's own thread...I'll start one and we can hash it out there..


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds, Bulk Cannabis Seeds, Feminized Cannabis Seeds, High THC Strains, USA West Coast Strains   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* American Propaganda mjshroomer 702 10 03/23/03 05:53 PM
by mntlfngrs
* some old school american propaganda atomikfunksoldier 505 10 06/27/03 03:34 AM
by Baby_Hitler
* To All Americans Who Hate America
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )
Anonymous 12,303 155 12/19/02 12:29 PM
by Evolving
* An interview with Noam Chomsky
( 1 2 3 all )
Phred 3,569 46 09/16/04 11:25 AM
by Xlea321
* Noam Chomsky on the Drug War
( 1 2 all )
xnevermore 4,508 32 10/09/02 03:01 PM
by EchoVortex
* THE ANTI-ANTI-AMERICANS wingnutx 1,469 17 08/27/03 02:49 PM
by luvdemshrooms
* Disney's WW2 Propaganda Cartoons Released on DVD SquattingMarmot 1,204 5 06/12/04 11:41 PM
by Learyfan
* Chomsky on how to get out
( 1 2 all )
Xlea321 1,732 32 05/14/04 09:15 PM
by luvdemshrooms

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
5,707 topic views. 5 members, 2 guests and 9 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic ]
Search this thread:
Avalon Magic Plants
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2020 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.189 seconds spending 0.012 seconds on 16 queries.