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Green_T


Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,042
Loc: UK
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China could build a modern military by 2020
#14974856 - 08/25/11 04:09 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Source: The Guardian
Quote:
China appears on track to forge a modern military by 2020, a rapid buildup that could be potentially destabilising to the Asia-Pacific region, the Pentagon has said.
Fuelled by its booming economy, China's military growth in the past decade has exceeded most US forecasts. Its aircraft carrier programme, cyberwarfare capabilities and anti-satellite missiles have alarmed neighbours and Washington.
Some China watchers, including members of the US Congress, note with apprehension that rising Chinese defence spending coincides with Washington's plans for defence cuts.
"China clearly believes that it can capitalise on the global financial crisis," said the house armed services committee chairman, Howard McKeon, adding that the US military presence in the Pacific must not be sacrificed in an attempt to control US spending.
The US defence department's annual assessment to Congress on the Chinese military flagged all the major concerns about China's growing military might, including Beijing's widening edge over Taiwan. It also noted cyber-attacks in 2010 – including those on US government computers – that appeared to have originated in China.
"We have some concerns [on cyber] about some of the things that we've seen. And we want to be able to work through that with China," said Michael Schiffer, a deputy assistant secretary of defence.
The report focused on 2010, a year when the Pentagon said China's military modernisation programme paid "visible dividends". It cited China's fielding of an operational anti-ship ballistic missile, continued work on its aircraft carrier programme and the completion of a prototype of China's first stealth fighter jet, the J-20.
The J-20 programme, the Pentagon report said, would not achieve "effective operational capability" before 2018.
"Despite continued gaps in some key areas, large quantities of antiquated hardware and a lack of operational experience, the PLA [China's People's Liberation Army] is steadily closing the technological gap with modern armed forces," the report said.
A spokesman for China's embassy in Washington said the report was "a reflection of cold war mentality" and would be used as a tool to depict China as a threat.
"We hope the US will take practical steps to work with China for stable and healthy military ties by following the spirit of mutual respect, mutual trust, reciprocity and mutual benefit," the embassy spokesman Wang Baodong said in an email.
The military buildup could have a destabilising effect on the region, Schiffer said, calling for greater openness by the PLA and more bilateral military dialogue.
"The pace and scope of China's sustained military investments have allowed China to pursue capabilities that we believe are potentially destabilising to regional military balances," Schiffer said.
The Pentagon said that despite its progress at becoming a more potent regional military power, Beijing was not expected to be able to project and sustain large forces in high-intensity combat operations far from China before 2020.
That is something the United States, still the predominant military power in the Pacific, has been able to do throughout the world for decades.
One of the best ways for a military to project power is with aircraft carriers and China launched its first carrier – a refitted former Soviet craft – for a maiden run earlier this month. Schiffer said he believed Beijing was working towards building its own domestically produced aircraft carriers and sources told Reuters China was building two carriers.
Still, the report said any domestically produced Chinese aircraft carrier would not be operational until at least 2015 if construction were to start this year.
"Whether or not this [China's carrier programme] proves to be a net plus for the region or for the globe or proves to be something that has destabilising effects and raises blood pressure in various regional capitals I think remains to be seen," Schiffer said.
One of the biggest irritants in the US-Chinese relationship is Taiwan. The PLA suspended military ties with the United States for most of 2010 over US arms sales to Taiwan and warned that a renewed flurry of engagement could again be jeopardised by new arms sales to an island China sees as a renegade province.
Schiffer said the US government had not yet made a decision on any new arms sales to Taiwan, comments echoed at the state department.
A Reuters report this month said the US sale of 66 new Lockheed Martin F-16 C/D fighter jets to Taiwan appeared unlikely.
What issues does this present for the US?
Does this pose a problem for countries like Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, the Philippines?
China is going to increase its military spending, but will it ever match the USA's?
The USA's role as a superpower is declining. China or India will be the next ones on the plate.
Discuss.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims
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jebustrist
Stranger


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 79
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Re: China could build a modern military by 2020 [Re: Green_T]
#14975471 - 08/25/11 09:21 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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This is kind of a tired topic - the US is still host to the highest level research institutions, the world's reserve currency, the UN, world culture, etc.
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despisedicon
Stranger

Registered: 06/16/06
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Re: China could build a modern military by 2020 [Re: Green_T]
#14978085 - 08/25/11 06:11 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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China posing a threat to the U.S. is mostly paranoia. Treat China like an enemy now and they might become one. I recall this same sort of talk when Japan was gaining ground in the 80s. China cares more about China than threatening the United States.
First they would have to throw their weight around the South China sea and take back the waters that Vietnam claim which they sort of want to do in the present time.
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zappaisgod
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Re: China could build a modern military by 2020 [Re: despisedicon] 2
#14978098 - 08/25/11 06:13 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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They already throw their weight around in the South China Sea and they already have a modern military.
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despisedicon
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Re: China could build a modern military by 2020 [Re: zappaisgod]
#14978120 - 08/25/11 06:19 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, true but not to the extent that it is alarming. Just enough to piss of the Vietnamese whom I wouldn't care to pick a side if it came to blows. Hopefully, U.S. foreign policy would have enough sense to stay out of it. Can you imagine if U.S. diplomats used Vietnam as a counter weight to the growing Chinese in the region? I'd be so fucking pissed.
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Tien
人民英雄




Registered: 03/30/05
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Re: China could build a modern military by 2020 [Re: despisedicon]
#14980555 - 08/26/11 05:02 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's funny how people in the west view the Chinese military advancement as a pretense to "destabilization" of the region, as if the US invasion of Iraq/Afghanistan achieved nothing but stabilization.
China is pretty aggressive when it comes to claiming a total of 12 square kilometers of worthless islands, but they have never bothered anybody else for any other reasons. For fucks sake..the last major conflict Chinese were involved in was the Korean War.
China is not a threat, if I was American I would consider my county's foreign policy to be a bigger threat.
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,560
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Re: China could build a modern military by 2020 [Re: Tien]
#14980565 - 08/26/11 05:10 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, it's just media hype and cold war mentality bullshit. I see no problem with China, our biggest trade partner. No reason for us to be at war with them, no reason for them to be at war with us. Media needs to stop making China seem like an enemy, they're far from it.
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Tien
人民英雄




Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 2,382
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Re: China could build a modern military by 2020 [Re: PatrickKn]
#14980566 - 08/26/11 05:13 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
PatrickKn said: Yeah, it's just media hype and cold war mentality bullshit. I see no problem with China, our biggest trade partner. No reason for us to be at war with them, no reason for them to be at war with us. Media needs to stop making China seem like an enemy, they're far from it.
And besides, they haven't even figured out how to engineer their own fighter jet engines yet...so they have to import them from Russia for time being.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: China could build a modern military by 2020 [Re: Tien]
#14980624 - 08/26/11 05:50 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tien said: It's funny how people in the west view the Chinese military advancement as a pretense to "destabilization" of the region, as if the US invasion of Iraq/Afghanistan achieved nothing but stabilization.
Those areas were more stable before? Quote:
China is pretty aggressive when it comes to claiming a total of 12 square kilometers of worthless islands, but they have never bothered anybody else for any other reasons. For fucks sake..the last major conflict Chinese were involved in was the Korean War.
The people of India, Hong Kong and Taiwan are somewhat mystified by this statement. Quote:
China is not a threat, if I was American I would consider my county's foreign policy to be a bigger threat.
China is not a military threat to the US. But they are a serious threat to everybody else, including S. Korea through their proxy, N. Korea.
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Tien
人民英雄




Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 2,382
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Re: China could build a modern military by 2020 [Re: zappaisgod]
#14980686 - 08/26/11 06:30 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Those areas were more stable before?
Those areas are more stable now? 
Quote:
The people of India, Hong Kong and Taiwan are somewhat mystified by this statement.
India is just as armed as China. Fuck hong knong, taiwan and tibet. They belong to China. It's none of your or mine business to get involved in internal Chinese issues. They can figure it out amongst themselves.
Quote:
China is not a military threat to the US. But they are a serious threat to everybody else, including S. Korea through their proxy, N. Korea.
Read up on your modern political affairs. China is DPRK's largest trade partner, and are pretty much the only reason north koreans are not completely starved to death. They have not provided any military aid to DPRK since the end of the cold war. Your claims, sir, are baseless.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: China could build a modern military by 2020 [Re: Tien]
#14980833 - 08/26/11 07:45 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tien said: It's funny how people in the west view the Chinese military advancement as a pretense to "destabilization" of the region
Yep, it is certainly funny that this is the case, especially considering how many countries in that region hold the same view.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: China could build a modern military by 2020 [Re: Tien]
#14980869 - 08/26/11 08:10 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tien said:
Quote:
Those areas were more stable before?
Those areas are more stable now? 
In the case of Iraq, yes. Afghanistan? Not worse.Quote:
Quote:
The people of India, Hong Kong and Taiwan are somewhat mystified by this statement.
India is just as armed as China. Fuck hong knong, taiwan and tibet. They belong to China. It's none of your or mine business to get involved in internal Chinese issues. They can figure it out amongst themselves.
India is not just as armed as China and I didn't say we should get involved. I just pointed out that you were full of shit. Quote:
Quote:
China is not a military threat to the US. But they are a serious threat to everybody else, including S. Korea through their proxy, N. Korea.
Read up on your modern political affairs. China is DPRK's largest trade partner, and are pretty much the only reason north koreans are not completely starved to death. They have not provided any military aid to DPRK since the end of the cold war. Your claims, sir, are baseless.
By supporting the regime with food charity etc. they are propping up and enabling a vicious lunatic. A vicious lunatic who routinely attacks S. Korea. You are a fantasist. China most certainly throws its weight around and most certainly is a threat. "Fuck hong knong, taiwan and tibet". No, fuck China and people who lie for them.
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Tien
人民英雄




Registered: 03/30/05
Posts: 2,382
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Re: China could build a modern military by 2020 [Re: zappaisgod]
#14980965 - 08/26/11 08:54 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Dude you're a fucking moron.
People fall victim to ethnic violence in Iraq every single day.
Read up idiot
23 christians killed
15 killed by bomb blast
car bomb kills 7 at ramadi check point
All of these articles are from this month...I can pull up dozens more.
google "security situation in iraq" too. you will find plenty more unbiased articles that cover the subject.
Quote:
By supporting the regime with food charity etc. they are propping up and enabling a vicious lunatic. A vicious lunatic who routinely attacks S. Korea.
Oh wow time to seriously pwn you.
Were you dropped on your head as a baby? There's something called humanitarianism - where one nation/organizations helps a nation in need. When there are famines, developed countries send food to the affected areas. Perhaps you've seen it on TV? (not sure if your trailer home is equipped with one)
Even South Korea ships tonnes of rice to the North every year because letting the citizens of DPRK (who are normal people just like me [not you]) starve is pretty much murder and bad diplomacy. It's the basis of human nature - helping one another out...
You just lost the little shred of credibility you had in your first post. You're an uneducated white trash who doesn't know shit about anything that's going on in the world. Go do some googling before you run your mouth.

Do me a favour, unless you're gonna back up some of that shit spilling out of your mouth with a reputable source...don't even bother replying because it didnt happen
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: China could build a modern military by 2020 [Re: Tien] 2
#14981000 - 08/26/11 09:05 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tien said: Dude you're a fucking moron.
People fall victim to ethnic violence in Iraq every single day.
Read up idiot
23 christians killed
15 killed by bomb blast
car bomb kills 7 at ramadi check point
All of these articles are from this month...I can pull up dozens more.
google "security situation in iraq" too. you will find plenty more unbiased articles that cover the subject.
Quote:
By supporting the regime with food charity etc. they are propping up and enabling a vicious lunatic. A vicious lunatic who routinely attacks S. Korea.
Oh wow time to seriously pwn you.
Were you dropped on your head as a baby? There's something called humanitarianism - where one nation/organizations helps a nation in need. When there are famines, developed countries send food to the affected areas. Perhaps you've seen it on TV? (not sure if your trailer home is equipped with one)
Even South Korea ships tonnes of rice to the North every year because letting the citizens of DPRK (who are normal people just like me [not you]) starve is pretty much murder and bad diplomacy. It's the basis of human nature - helping one another out...
You just lost the little shred of credibility you had in your first post. You're an uneducated white trash who doesn't know shit about anything that's going on in the world. Go do some googling before you run your mouth.

Do me a favour, unless you're gonna back up some of that shit spilling out of your mouth with a reputable source...don't even bother replying because it didnt happen
Quoted for posterity.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: China could build a modern military by 2020 [Re: Tien]
#14981304 - 08/26/11 10:26 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tien said: Dude you're a fucking moron.
People fall victim to ethnic violence in Iraq every single day.
Read up idiot
23 christians killed
15 killed by bomb blast
car bomb kills 7 at ramadi check point
All of these articles are from this month...I can pull up dozens more.
google "security situation in iraq" too. you will find plenty more unbiased articles that cover the subject.
Was the region stable before? No. In fact Iraq had been involved in three major wars before 2002. Or didn't you know that? Was Saddam killing thousands and thousands of his own citizens? Yes, he was. Or didn't you know that? What we have now are non-government criminals continue to murder people. Is that better than having a government that continues to murder people? Why yes, it is. Or didn't you know that? "More" and "less" are expressions of relative value. Or didn't you know that? Quote:
Quote:
By supporting the regime with food charity etc. they are propping up and enabling a vicious lunatic. A vicious lunatic who routinely attacks S. Korea.
Oh wow time to seriously pwn you.
Were you dropped on your head as a baby? There's something called humanitarianism - where one nation/organizations helps a nation in need. When there are famines, developed countries send food to the affected areas. Perhaps you've seen it on TV? (not sure if your trailer home is equipped with one)
Even South Korea ships tonnes of rice to the North every year because letting the citizens of DPRK (who are normal people just like me [not you]) starve is pretty much murder and bad diplomacy. It's the basis of human nature - helping one another out...
The people of N. Korea are victims of the regime. The regime steals most of the food aid and gives it to its military. The well fed military keeps the population in thrall. By the way, why do you feel such empathy for the Nork people but say fuck "Fuck hong knong, taiwan and tibet". Good thing you're hiding in Canada.Quote:
You just lost the little shred of credibility you had in your first post. You're an uneducated white trash who doesn't know shit about anything that's going on in the world. Go do some googling before you run your mouth.

China is a nation run by thugs. That is a fact. Denying it only exposes you as a lacky and a dupe.Quote:
Do me a favour, unless you're gonna back up some of that shit spilling out of your mouth with a reputable source...don't even bother replying because it didnt happen
What reputable source would you like for what spewage? You yourself said China is the Norks greatest trading partner, although that is rather laughable because the Norks don't produce anything. and oh yeah:
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Tien
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Registered: 03/30/05
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Re: China could build a modern military by 2020 [Re: Tien]
#14981325 - 08/26/11 10:35 AM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tien said: Do me a favour, unless you're gonna back up some of that shit spilling out of your mouth with a reputable source...don't even bother replying because it didnt happen
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: China could build a modern military by 2020 [Re: Tien]
#14981780 - 08/26/11 12:19 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Would you like a reputable source for my assertion that China is solely responsible for the parlous state of the North Korean people? Look at S. Korea. Happy prosperous people. Look at N. Korea. Destitute and starving. What is the difference? I think you can google china involvement in korean war all by your little hiding in Canada self.
China is one of the worst human rights violators in the history of the planet, their communist policies have enslaved billions and their client state has been left to fester in the hands of a lunatic regime spanning, so far, two generations. Soon to be a third.
And oh yeah:
Quote:
Fuck hong knong, taiwan and tibet
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Jryan
The Thinker


Registered: 07/30/11
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Re: China could build a modern military by 2020 [Re: zappaisgod]
#14982139 - 08/26/11 02:04 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Would you like a reputable source for my assertion that China is solely responsible for the parlous state of the North Korean people? Look at S. Korea. Happy prosperous people. Look at N. Korea. Destitute and starving. What is the difference? I think you can google china involvement in korean war all by your little hiding in Canada self.
China is one of the worst human rights violators in the history of the planet, their communist policies have enslaved billions and their client state has been left to fester in the hands of a lunatic regime spanning, so far, two generations. Soon to be a third.
And oh yeah:
Quote:
Fuck hong knong, taiwan and tibet
I'm actually interested, where does it say that China is run by "thugs"? Also, I think that a lot of Chinese people are okay with how their government is run, or else, why would they live there? (AS you have proposed to me on similar arguments (ie taxing the rich)). Some countries, I don't think, will ever have the capability or support to have a democratic society. It goes along with their code of beliefs, they believe in it because they believed in it yesterday. It is easier to refuse a new belief than it is to change your belief systems.
-------------------- Keep Questioning those belifes!
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: China could build a modern military by 2020 [Re: Jryan]
#14982662 - 08/26/11 03:51 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jryan said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Would you like a reputable source for my assertion that China is solely responsible for the parlous state of the North Korean people? Look at S. Korea. Happy prosperous people. Look at N. Korea. Destitute and starving. What is the difference? I think you can google china involvement in korean war all by your little hiding in Canada self.
China is one of the worst human rights violators in the history of the planet, their communist policies have enslaved billions and their client state has been left to fester in the hands of a lunatic regime spanning, so far, two generations. Soon to be a third.
And oh yeah:
Quote:
Fuck hong knong, taiwan and tibet
I'm actually interested, where does it say that China is run by "thugs"?
Are you shitting me? Have you ever read a fucking newspaper?Quote:
Also, I think that a lot of Chinese people are okay with how their government is run, or else, why would they live there?(AS you have proposed to me on similar arguments (ie taxing the rich)).
This may come as a shock to you but there is a whole shitload of them who manage to cobble together enough money to illegally emigrate to the United States. Ever heard the word "Snakeheads"? Quote:
Some countries, I don't think, will ever have the capability or support to have a democratic society. It goes along with their code of beliefs, they believe in it because they believed in it yesterday. It is easier to refuse a new belief than it is to change your belief systems.
Do you really think that most of the people of China signed up for what they have?
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Jryan
The Thinker


Registered: 07/30/11
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Re: China could build a modern military by 2020 [Re: zappaisgod]
#14982694 - 08/26/11 03:59 PM (12 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Jryan said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Would you like a reputable source for my assertion that China is solely responsible for the parlous state of the North Korean people? Look at S. Korea. Happy prosperous people. Look at N. Korea. Destitute and starving. What is the difference? I think you can google china involvement in korean war all by your little hiding in Canada self.
China is one of the worst human rights violators in the history of the planet, their communist policies have enslaved billions and their client state has been left to fester in the hands of a lunatic regime spanning, so far, two generations. Soon to be a third.
And oh yeah:
Quote:
Fuck hong knong, taiwan and tibet
I'm actually interested, where does it say that China is run by "thugs"?
Are you shitting me? Have you ever read a fucking newspaper?Quote:
Also, I think that a lot of Chinese people are okay with how their government is run, or else, why would they live there?(AS you have proposed to me on similar arguments (ie taxing the rich)).
This may come as a shock to you but there is a whole shitload of them who manage to cobble together enough money to illegally emigrate to the United States. Ever heard the word "Snakeheads"? Quote:
Some countries, I don't think, will ever have the capability or support to have a democratic society. It goes along with their code of beliefs, they believe in it because they believed in it yesterday. It is easier to refuse a new belief than it is to change your belief systems.
Do you really think that most of the people of China signed up for what they have?
We currently have 3.8 million Chinese Americans living in the US. Total population 3,796,796[1] 1.2% of the U.S. population (2009) Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_American Which is a piss in the pound compared to there total population.
-------------------- Keep Questioning those belifes!
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