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Blueing Mushroom Find in Oregon!!! (5/18)
    #1497298 -

A prolific fruiting of an unknown specie was found in 4 year old mixed mulch. The description of baeos fits these specimens well. I have noticed a couple of possible insignificant differences. There is little to no striation at the margins, the cap margin is regular to irregular.

Here is a description as best as I can do:

Cap shape:

Variable. Young specimens are more regular as obtusely conic maturing to hemispheric to broadly umbonate. Older specimens broadly convex. 1-1.5 inch cap. Regular to undulating margin. Color as dark chestnut when young to light beige/ nearly white as older/dryer. Removable pellicule.

Gills:

Sinuate. 3 rows of crowded to close gills. Tan to beige, darker with age.

Stem:

1-2 inches long, 1/8-1/4 inch thick. Fribulose annular zone, may be fribulose below annular zone. Hollow, and fibrous (not easily broken).

Other:

Specimes blue when handled but usually do not blue in habitat unless old/dry. They have a strong psilocybe smell.

I have many photos and am taking prints...will post tomorrow night.

**Please post any possible look alikes or suggestions for alternate species. Pics are good too...this would be my first baeo find.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

Edited by Joshua (05/20/03 01:51 AM)

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1497379 -

Here are a few baeocystis images for comparison. This would be unusual since they grow in lawns and grassy areas in the summer and fall and then appear in woodchips after temperatures change to much colder environment.

mj

Annd all caps have pleats on them. They are generally never a chestnut color but are olive-brown to straw colored and sometimes whitish in age with gold tinges in the bluing and hygrophanous color changes of the caps.

Here are those images to help compare them,







Some intense bluing in Baeocystis from a lawn



One more lawn foto:



and from some mulch variations





and



mj

Congradulations for your find.

Waiting to see the pictures.

mj

mj

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1497693 -

They do not have pleated margins and do not readily bruise blue. They also resemble Weilii in their description. I am anxious to get your opinion once I post picks.

I don't think they are baeo's but for a lack of a better description I don't know what to call them. The spore print is developing as a purple/brown print. My camera batt died while in the field, I will go back for more pic's now that my camera has recharged.

Are there any possible lookalikes?

In a bit of ironoy...the location they were found is the same location I ingested 3 1/8 of cubes 4-5 years ago...to the foot. The reason they put in the mulch is because a week after I was in the buches drinking my cube and OJ smoothie a drunk driver plowed through the same bushes and they had to re-landscape.

Pics to be posted tonight. Is there anything particular you want a shot of...otherwise you are at the mercy of my judgement.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1497809 -

WEll even the ones you took home you could photograph.

It is possible they are P. cyanofibrilosa's They can vbe both very large and very small.

There is even a strain of small baeos which never get higher than 2 iches and i should post a picture of them.

But I would have to look into a file of about 2000 images in my cabinets. one at a time. i will wait till you post your images.

mj

ALso sometimes lanscappers have put mulch over new lawns and vice-versa.

HEre at the u of W a crop of blue ringers came up in a newly planted lawn. I pickked them a few times and then a week later i saw a truck dump 1 foot of mulch over the lawned area and plant flowers in it.

mj

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1499191 -

I am waiting for the pics man....hmmm perhaps they are some variation of pelliculosa?


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stay off my land

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: cardboard]
    #1499821 -

Here are the pics...enjoy! I am pretty sure this is not a mixed collection. The morphology varied greatly when comparing the new specimens to the old specimens.













Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1499910 -

My the spore print appears to be a reddish brown.

I do not thinkit is a Psilocybe.

Maybe a Cortinarius, . I do not think the bluing is psilocine/psilocybine.

Mj. Some stropharias look like that also.

mj

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1499916 -

Right on Josh I think that is so cool that you came across these, you have to admit they resemble a cubensis/azurescen "huh".

Very very extraordinary find, i think this is some sort of sign to you "Mycology Major Maybe".

Mr. Psilocybe Joshuensis

"You da man" "Oh ya you da man"


--------------------
EQ's are pointy!

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: PsilocybeTrybe]
    #1499925 -

That print looks just like a cubensis print.

The more i look at them they even look a little like caerulescens/welli.

I am boggled.

Eat one and the trip will answer all :smile:


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EQ's are pointy!

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: PsilocybeTrybe]
    #1499933 -

I bet 100% that their a Psilocybin containing specie. I know that look.....

Im convinced...clone one Josh?


--------------------
EQ's are pointy!

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: PsilocybeTrybe]
    #1499961 -

Quote:
Eat one and the trip will answer all


If that's a Cortinarius like the spore print color suggests, then it could make you trip to a hospital or a graveyard. Never eat unindentified mushrooms.

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: zeronio]
    #1499996 -

Good advice Zeronio.
and congratulations on your Modship ;-) green suits you well :cool:


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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Paid]
    #1499998 -

It was a joke dude, josh is a close friend!


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EQ's are pointy!

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: PsilocybeTrybe]
    #1500082 -

Gota be carefull as some people have a tendancie to take bad advice :-(

Edit: Not that Joshua would, but younger members may :-(


--------------------


Edited by Paid (04/28/03 06:48 AM)

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Paid]
    #1500127 -

Cool Josh! I am pretty sure they are not Baeos but not positive they aren't psilocybian.perhaps a stunzii complex variation.Bon Chance! WR


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To old for this place

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: whiterasta]
    #1500142 -

Ey, i would concure they are not in the Psilocybe family, they seem much to large and meaty for a temperate woodlover. Perhaps some stropharia specie or as mj suggests a Cortinarius.


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stay off my land

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: cardboard]
    #1500177 -

We have quite a number of Nemataloma sp. that like mulch, also relooking at the print I think my money may be on that genus.The pic look a lot like a Nemataloma sp. that grew from the chip piles the utilities leave for a couple yrs here.I just do not see enough umbonate caps or undercurled edges for any of the active wood lovers I have seen.Josh I think our only hope is growing B+ in the cold until it evolves :wink: WR


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To old for this place

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Re: Unidentified Psilocybe Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1500217 -

Try comparing your find to the description for Agrocybe praecox.

In your first photo there's a specimen to the lower right where the cap cuticle is cracking. That, plus a rusty brown spore print, ring on the stem, and growth in wood chip mulch, are all typical indicators of this species.

Happy mushrooming!


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Happy mushrooming!

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Re: Unidentified Psilocybe Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1500329 -

Those are Psilocybes and the coloration of the spore print is just a photographic artifact. Photographing psilocybe spores at such a steep angle with a flash gives them the appearance of a more reddish coloration. Assuming the spores are brownish/purple and there is tissue bluing the choice of genera is limited.

My strong feeling is that they are Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa but microscopic features would have to be checked to confirm the identity.


--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply

My Instagram
Reinvesting Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:

Edited by Workman (04/28/03 09:42 AM)

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Re: Unidentified Psilocybe Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1500487 -

very  :cool: i will follow this with great interest :smile: 


--------------------
comario


"crusaders against emotional poverty"

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Re: Unidentified Psilocybe Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Workman]
    #1500568 -

Workman, I can assure you that they are not Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa as I have collect ed those on many ocassions. A stropharia maybe but i am sure they are not a psilocybe, at least not an active one.

Mj,

And maybe a Agrocybe.


Joshua,

Make a print on a white piece of paper. I do not know who started the aluminum foil for prints trip but those are not good ways to make a print and show proper color.

Also Ig you have shrooms with a bluing context. Do not put blue paper in the backgropund. Use white or red.

A few more imaes would be helpful, come close ups with a digital in after picking.

And it is definatewly not a cross between cubensis and azurescens. Those are comments reseerved for the nefarious Mr. G. who claims his martinensis is a new species and he claims the azurescens/cubensis hoax of the century.

mj


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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1500576 -

I emailed some pictures to Guzman.

mj

Willwait for his late reply.


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Re: Unidentified Psilocybe Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1500624 -

I am already working on more pics using a white printing surface and a white background.

I witheld the blueing specimens...I will provide a pic soon that will show the blueing. The spore print color is hard to discern due to the light deposit. I definately think it is more brown than purple...perhaps the print on white background will tell.


Of all of the alternative ID'd ... which bruise blue?

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Unidentified Psilocybe Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1500753 -

MJ has good points about not putting a blue background and not using the foil for photography. The mushrooms do look like an agrocybe when dry but I still think they are some sort of a psilocybe. They may not be cyanofibrillosa but that is the best match I can come up with. Baeocystis have very distinct mango shaped spores so a quick look through the microscope could rule that species out. It is a specimen of interest.


--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply

My Instagram
Reinvesting Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:

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Re: Unidentified Psilocybe Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Workman]
    #1500806 -

I was in my car...the background w/ the small holes are my pants. I will be more cautious about choosing my backgrounds in the future.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Unidentified Psilocybe Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1501600 -

"Wow" you sure stirred a lot of interests Josh, thats awesome.

I agree with Workman those look so much like Psilocybes... "mmmm"  "I can just
smell them now"

Psilocybe Joshuensis: "That's what they are". "What kind of books are you all reading"? :smile:

Once again nice find.  Even the experts are boggled, this doesn't suprise me Josh, you have such wierd luck like that!

I can't wait to see them growing in all back yards of Oregon.


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EQ's are pointy!

Edited by PsilocybeTrybe (04/28/03 05:40 PM)

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1501679 -

This is pretty interesting.

You should get some pictures of the gill structure.

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1501745 -

Those don't resemble Gymnopilus to anyone?


--------------------
Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Raadt]
    #1502021 -

Perhaps a variation of cyanofribrollsa brought on by a very unseasonal fruiting? They still seem to meaty like a stropharia for my liking.


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stay off my land

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: angryshroom]
    #1503262 -

Here are some blue specimens. Someone ate .5 grams and got high...no stomach problems. He said it was a nice body high...not too mental.



Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1503357 -

Any word from Guzman yet?

Nice find...Are you serious about "someone" actually eating them non identified?

peace...


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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1503365 -

Joshua, it is possible that you have found somene's outdoor transplanted patch of P. weilii. IT is too close to be anyhthing but..

However, I present below some interesting photos of P. weilii and Michael Beugs image of P. cyanofibrilosa as opposed also to Paul stamets two photos from his book Psilocybine Mushrooms of the World. Compare the wide difference betweent he two and the pictures of Stamets,
.
Here is a picture from the generic paper on P. weilii by Stamets and Gartz and another form a Georgia collection.

Click all images to Enlarge:








However, here is a photo of P. cyanofibrillosa taken by Michael Beug of Evergreen State College in Olympia, Washington.



However it is different than the ones I picked here in Seattle and much different than the ones in Paul Stamets Psilocybine Mushrooms of the World.

see Pauls P. cyanofibrillosa two images posted below.

Page 113:


Page 114:


Well I sent images to Guzman and to Stijve in Switzerland. I await their findings.

IT may be P. cyanofibrilosa with a mutated growth or as I mentioned above, someone's transplanted spring-summer Weilli patch who is not aware it came up.

Let me know what you al lthink about this.

mj

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1503691 -

Uhh MJ so i assume your thinking its possible to cultivate weilli in the pacific northwest?? If those are cyanofribs then they are some crazy mutoids thats for sure. Those specimens really need to be looked under the microscope.


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stay off my land

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: cardboard]
    #1503748 -

well the P. weilii are a warmer weather shroom,but then again I do not know how the weather conditions are in Georgia, only that this is not the season of the P. weilii. I also believe that after sev eral years the patches will disappear due to overgrowth and other nutrients disappearing inthe Georgia soils where they are collected from

This thinking is likely since that is what happens in many areas where noit manured shrooms fruit.

ANyone can make an outdoor patch for a short period.

I have friends who feed cows P. cubies in june and July and when August September com a few appear in manure but only once. They do not return after hte seeding.

However, it is doubtful after viewing many photos in my library.

I compared them to the foto of Michael Beug which does resemble Joshua's shrooms but they do not resemble those of Paul Stamets. Here are a few of P.cyanofibrilosa from Golden Gate Park in SF.


These inmages below are closer to the P. cyanofibrillosa's which I have picked here in Seattle. Only about ten patches in thirty years. Kinda scarce they are.



and



mj

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1505463 -

To bad myceofile is not around that guy has alot of experiance with cyanofribrollsa, and from what i have seen those looking nothing like said species. I think weilli is definetly out of the question, even if someone had cultivated a bed it wouldnt be fruiting with these washington/oregon spring temperatures.

What this is is a crazy mystery and you need a microscope man.


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stay off my land

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: stonErollEr1]
    #1505499 -

It's a long story.

He picked some, dried them, and ate them...I had nothing to do with what he was doing.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1505768 -

joshua, i hope you have already made preparations to send some of these specimens out, because this whole speculation festival is making me queezy. i personally handled some quantity of those mushrooms that the other person ingested, and there is absolutely no doubt that they are psilocybian mushrooms, the question here is whether the species has been described before, not whether they are active, nor whether they are in the genus psilocybe. you left that cd at my house with all those pics, i don't see why you didn't post more.... someone should have collected these mushrooms before and been swooft enough to contact a knowledgable mycologist.
you failed to mention the gelatinous pellicle, easily separable. also, smell alone was enough to id them to this genus!!!
the spore color is bad in that photo. they are purple brown, just as they should be.

what i want to know is, why are they not baeo's?
has no one found meaty baeo's before? the younger specimens, when still fresh, DID readily bruise blue, just not as starkly as, say, fresh cubensis or azurescens, which is what joshua expects from his bluing mushrooms! (hehe)
the older specimens were found a few days beyond prime, which accounts for there light color and there hesitancy to bruise, although they all did bruise.
this is no mixed collection.

-secret asian man.


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yep.....

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1505795 -

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum3&Number=1499975&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
what about argentipes?
just sayin.....


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yep.....

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: shaniatwain]
    #1505924 -

They are not baeocystis. I have picked baeocystis for thirty years and I know the species very well.

Guzm?n just sent me a reply and he says they are Psilocybe cyanofibrilosa.

Mjshroomer.

And Stropharia aeruginosa is not a psychoactive species.
mj

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: shaniatwain]
    #1505929 -

P. argentipes is a species only known from Japan and nowhere else in the world.

mj

If you read my last post, Guzm?n just identified them as Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa.

End of story.

and have a shroomy day,

mj

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1505956 -

Quote:
I do not thinkit is a Psilocybe.

Maybe a Cortinarius, . I do not think the bluing is psilocine/psilocybine.

Mj. Some stropharias look like that also 



and
Quote:
Ey, i would concure they are not in the Psilocybe family, they seem much to large and meaty for a temperate woodlover. Perhaps some stropharia specie or as mj suggests a Cortinarius.



 
Quote:
  Workman, I can assure you that they are not Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa as I have collect ed those on many ocassions. A stropharia maybe but i am sure they are not a psilocybe, at least not an active one.




mushroom john is very funny haha.
love to hear the squawking.....
peace. :grin: :confused: :ooo: 


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yep.....

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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1506014 -


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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
    #1506030 -

aeruginosa is not an active mushroom. I will accept ps cyanofribrollsa, but i find it hard to believe guzman whose not even from our region can identify a mushroom by those pictures.


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stay off my land

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: cardboard]
    #1506237 -

Guzman has collected extensively here in the PNW many times. He knows the species from this region and is the leading expert on the genus Psilocybe.

The name of the species is Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa Stamets and Guzm?n. He did the original taxonomy and named the species along with Paul Stamets.

Okay Cardboard.

have a shroomy day the mystery has been solved. mj

WOOBY WOOBY WOO.

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1506329 -

Has Guzman collected more specimens of various Psilocybes in the Northwest than you? A photographic ID is no more valid than an expired bus ticket.

I will be viewing the spores and gills tomorrow. I will try to take some pictures as well. Microscopic identification is much more accurate as we all should know.

for those who are interested---For your homework I ask that you look up the microscopic standard for the spores of cyanofribillosa. If you post the details here, we will all be for the better.

MJ...if you could crossreference the various works you have access to and let me know if and what the consensus for the spore shape/size/structure is...I would be grateful. I will do the same with the books I have.

Stay posted as I will have some microscopic pics for you all tomorrow...I hope.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1506386 -

"Nice microscope pics", this is such great discussion you have started Josh!

That should be fun looking at those spores under a microscope. "My question is

how will you take a close up picture of them"?

I miss all the challenges of this great hobbie :frown:  Someday i will get to practice my skills again...


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EQ's are pointy!

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: PsilocybeTrybe]
    #1506409 -

I will place the lens of my camera to the occular of the microscope and hope that it works.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1506422 -

"Ahhhhhh... I see". Can't wait!


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EQ's are pointy!

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1506492 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
    #1507043 -

Excellent joshue, micrcoscopic evaluation will do the trick. Check what you see against the guidelines for ps baeocystis as well, i believe (having never viewed them under the microscope) that baeo spores are quiet distinct. Workman pointed out earlier in this thread ps baeocystis has a distinct mango shaped spore.

And Mj, i was challenging you or guzman i was just pointing out the obvious that a concrete identification based on even the best macroscopic photos is not the final verdict. I do appreciate the woob woooby woo, that was classic.


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stay off my land

Edited by cardboard (04/30/03 08:25 AM)

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
    #1507052 -

Hi Mr. M
Joshua,
here are the pages form Paul Stamets and Guzm?n's paper on the naming of the species.











mjshroomer

Joshua, did you get my pm's?

mj

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1507059 -

AND A WOBBLE WHOA WHOA

mj

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: cardboard]
    #1507060 -

I was just flipping through stamets book looking at spore details, and noticed some similarities between your collection and Ps bohemica. Another possible explanation of what you found, bohemica has pleurocystidia present (but few) and a cheilocystidia are larger than both baeocystis and cyanofribrollsa, up to 9 microns wide. Hope that helps.


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stay off my land

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: cardboard]
    #1507204 -

Agaoin, P. bohemica is a European speices and is not in the USA.

HEre are a few images of P. bohemica.







ANd a beautiful one



Mjshroomer

Remember that a shroom microscopically similar is a lot different macroscopically.


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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1508466 -

I remember last year you saying that subcubensis are only found in Ecuador. Just a couple weeks ago you posted that they can be found in South America, certain parts of Asia, and Australia.

Just because a species hasn't been published to occur in a different area doesn't mean it cant exist in that area.

I think a very small sample of the actual species out there are found by those who can publish a scientific paper. I would imagine that many more species are found by the common mushroom picker and are not immediately available to scientific literature.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1508528 -

I'm not gonna get in on this one, I just wanted to say very very cool find joshua!!! And man they sure do look like weilii eh :smile: I mean I know they aren't, but they sure have some similarities, but as pointed out several times, mushrooms in the psilocybe genus often do look very similar.

And not to discredit anyone, but don't take the resident "expert" opinion for gospel, if you want something done, ya gotta do it yer self. Looks like your well on your way to doing just that, so good luck and keep us posted.


LK,


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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Lizard King]
    #1508665 -

No matter what species they are Joshua,You Da Man! they are definately an uncommon if not original find.To think that ALL of the active Psilocybes have been collected and categorized is a bit arrogant.As knowledge and interest increase so will finds like yours.Bravo on whatever species it is as it is obviously rare,and should it be a unique specie think up as unique a species name as you can all of this lastnamensis or obviousfeaturescens crap has got to stop.Perhaps
Psilocybe confound'emopsis?or Ps.expertsdon'tnosis;) any way get the scope out and photo all of it you can.Mount tissue slides,document,document,document.

MJ: Does the farmer who feeds the cubies to his cows live in the salem area? reliable reports of LARGE cubes found in dairy fields are coming from the area.

Bon Chance.WR


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To old for this place

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: whiterasta]
    #1508713 -

I can't wait!


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EQ's are pointy!

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Lizard King]
    #1508756 -

I have always been one to make my own judgements and decisions. I will take others opinions into consideration though.

I was unable to get a good look at the sporulating structure. I need to learn the proper preparation for that type of viewing.

I did however get some good spore pics.

Here is a pic comparing the spores I collected to erythrocytes (red blood cells) viewed at 1000x.



And a close-up, another 2-3x. Total magnification 2000-3000x



The average red blood cell is 5.5-8 microns in diameter depending on your source ( 1, 2, 3 ).

I will assume these red blood cells to be average and use the figure of 7 microns. Using that figure and doing some mathematical conversions I estimate the average size of my spores to be 7.4 x 4.5 microns. They appear to be very mango shaped to me, however are much to small in comparison to the expected spore size for baeocystis (10-12 x 6-7 microns) or cyanofribillosa (9.5-11 x 6-6.6 microns).

If I multiply my size figures from my spores by a factor of 1.5 I am right in the range for baeocystis, however the blood cell I looked at would then be a wopping 10.5 microns in diameter, well outside the range for a normal erythrocyte. If I do the same using a 1.38 multiplication factor to match the spore size to cyanofribillosa I would have a 9.7 micron blood cell.

The slide of erythrocytes was from a biological company. I assume the cells are standard sized cells as they are to be used as samples for microscopy work.

In conclusion...I am still uncertain what specie I have found as both the microscopic and macroscopic features do not match any species I am familiar with.

Any ideas?

Joshua


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Microscope pics are here!!! [Re: whiterasta]
    #1508769 -

If this is new...and if I have any say. I will name it P. holotropii in honor of Stanislav Grof and the idea of holotropism, an idea that Psilocybe mushrooms have helped me to understand.

Joshua


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"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

Edited by Joshua (04/30/03 06:39 PM)

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1508791 -

Oi, joshua thats pretty impressive how you went about measuring without a micronmeter. I am baffled. Seeing as how your in oregon i would suggest getting some fresh specimens to workman for further investigation. I hope it is a new specie then i would have another local specie to collect =). And alot of people (cardboard) will want sporeprints =)


--------------------
stay off my land

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: cardboard]
    #1508820 -

I actually saw the method of using the erythrocyte as reference on Workman's site from a link he sent me.

Thanks for the help Workman!

I will be talking to a professor here at my university to see if he is interested in helping me to correctly identify this specie...I will take it from there.

Joshua


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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1508828 -

would this rule out bohemica? :confused:    


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commit more crimes hate more people think of new original ways to do it go on man just go out and really piss someone off

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: triptones]
    #1508845 -

Yes, the proportions of the spores are incorrect.

Joshua


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"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1508880 -

very interesting i truly hope that its a new species that would be awesome.  and to think that all this is happening on a "drug" message board :smile:  peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: blaze2]
    #1508898 -

damn...i love this thread!!!

keep diggin' josh!!


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If you got one foot in yesterday
And one foot in tomorrow
You are pissin' all over today

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Re: Microscope pics are here!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1508923 -

Quote:
I will name it P. holotropii in honor of Stanislav Grof and the idea of holotropism


Now that's a name! Again you prove Who Da Man is!
Interesting how the PNW species complex of Psilocybes is developing..... an amazing genus without a doubt.Exciting for you my freind,Indentification,cultivation parameters, etc an intriguing and valuable scientific contribution.I would like to offer my congratulations on this most exciting find.
With the greatest of scientific respect,WR :wink:


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To old for this place

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1508960 -

I was referring to Ecuado that only P. subcubensis had been identified fromthat country. So far no one has reported other species from there.

P. subcubensis occurs in Australia, mexico, Central America and Thailand.

I did not say it was strictly from Ecuador.

Only that it was the only shroom reported in the literature formthere. No one has collected any P. cubensis in Ecuador. There are dozens of herbarium deposits at the national herbarium in Ecuador and they were all found to be P. subcubensis.
Thats all Joshua.

have a shroomy day.

mj

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1509573 -

Last year:
Quote:
There are no Psilocybe subcubensis in Argentina. Only Psilocybe cubensis.

Psilocybe subcubensis has only been identified as coming from Ecuador and not fromArgentina.


This year:
Quote:
Here are four specimens of P. subcubensis, a species only known from Mexico, Central America, South America, Australia and Thailand.


This site includes India.

On page 97 of this document, subcubensis is reported from Australia, Colombia, Thailand, and Puerto Rico (I think the reference to Alien is in fact supposed to be Allen)

I know you knew that Ecuador was not the only country subcubensis was found in...but your words said otherwise.

I would be careful when you make absolute statements, they are very confining. As I said before, "I think a very small sample of the actual species out there are found by those who can publish a scientific paper. I would imagine that many more species are found by the common mushroom picker and are not immediately available to scientific literature."

Even in your most recent post regarding the habitat of subcubensis you left out the Carribean.

Here is a quote from this site describing the climate of Argentina.

Quote:
North Eastern interior: Tropical climate, this area may be
uncomfortable during the summer because of the mixture of
of heat and humidity. Winters are generally mild & often
warm. Temperature tend to be quite high all year.



This is a Pantropical climate...the same climate that subcubensis are generally known to grow in. Although a published paper has not been written describing the specie from Argentina doesn't mean it doesn't grow there.

I admit that there is a lot that I can learn from you. I am grateful for your time and your responses.

Joshua


--------------------
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Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1509802 -

Here is an image of Psilocybe baeocystis spores. Unfortunately I don't have a very good microscope (yet), but it does show the distinctive mango shape.



I have a rough chart that I haven't been working on in awhile that consists of drawings from the literature as well as my own spore photography.

http://www.sporeworks.com/newpictures/taxonomypage/PsilocybeMicroscopic.htm


--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
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Exotic Spore Supply

My Instagram
Reinvesting Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification :amanitajar:

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Workman]
    #1509829 -

Very cool!

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1509895 -

Congratulations Joshua ! We are all waiting for new developments, hehe !

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1510244 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Workman]
    #1510265 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
    #1510309 -

Do you have an opinion on what you think it could be?


Joshua have you managed to cloned it?

Side note. As spores can travel long distances, is it not possible for
species to turn up all over the globe?and does anyone think the strange
weather patterns of the last few years could be adding this?


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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
    #1510333 -

Quote:
I am assuming that your microscope goes up to 1000x and the rest of the magnification was done via computer enlargement?



My digital camera has a 3x optical zoom.

Joshua


--------------------
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"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Paid]
    #1510341 -

Quote:
As spores can travel long distances, is it not possible for
species to turn up all over the globe?



As long as they land in favorable conditions. There are in fact many spores that travel around the world catching a ride in the jet stream. I think attributing the weather to any unusual fruitings is a stretch, but possibly a good one. I have noticed the winters have not been as cold, this could lead to fruitings that otherwise would not have occured. This is speculation though, I don't know a large enough picture to make it anything more than speculation.

Joshua


--------------------
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Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1510357 -

sweet so if it turns out to be something undocumented how would one go about getting it named and accepted as a new species?

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1510371 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
    #1510379 -

They are not macroscopically similar though. Here is a link to a pic of aeruginosa from a foray to Astoria a couple of years ago.

http://shroomery.org/wwwthreads/files/83173-ROLL1DX-07A.JPG
Edit: The gills are sinuate on my specimens, Psilocybe caerulea have adnate to subdecurrent gills.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

Edited by Joshua (05/01/03 03:49 AM)

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1510397 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
    #1510403 -

yeah, i'd not get my panties [you heard me, i wear panties from time to time :wink: ] in a bunch about it yet, but yeah, it'd be awesome if it was a new species.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

Edited by concretefeet (05/01/03 03:46 AM)

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
    #1510409 -

The pic was downloaded over a year ago, I do not have a thumb image for it...I will remove it.

Quote:
If you look at the picture of P. caerulea in PMOTW they don't appear to have the gill attachment described in the literature.



Good eye!

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

Edited by Joshua (05/01/03 03:54 AM)

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1510651 -

Cool, Dude...

Psilocybe  holotropii , Psilocybe  holotropii , Psilocybe  holotropii... :wink: 

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1510656 -



A picture of Stropharia aeruginosa from Seattle, Washington. Very thick caps and very meaty shrooms.

mj

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1511183 -

Macroscopically joshuas are different from every pacific northwest specie there is, perhaps this is due to an unseasonal fruiting. Stropharia aeroginsa fruits around pretty much year round however, of course there is a HUGE macroscopic difference between that specie and what Joshua has gathered. There are 2 big mysterys really, A what specie has joshue discovered and B why is it fruiting in the spring, fruitings of woodloving temperate psilocybes normally only occurs in the fall. However we have seen Workmans pictures of ps cyanescen which is/was fruiting in our very odd spring weather. Those 2 factors make an ID very difficult (not to mention the wacky spore size you discovered). I wish you goodluck trying to come up with an ID joshua. Is there a chance perhaps that this fungus specie has been growing in the woodchips (could be all over) and has just now (this spring) found conditions favorable of reproducing sexually (producing fruitbodies). This is a highly irregular spring given that cyanescens have been fruiting. Just another element to the mystery i suppose.


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stay off my land

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: cardboard]
    #1511216 -

Remember that Workman's P. cyanescens was a transplanted patch thet he created rich in the nurients desired by the mychorrizial P. cyanescens. That is a major fluke. But there are no other patches of such P. cyanescens fruiting. Only Workman's.

I did find one year in Markch of 1986 across the street from the zoo on Phinney street a patch of mulched in P. stuntzii's but later learned that the landscappers put the mulch right on top of a newly sodded lawn five weeks after the lawn was planted. That popped up through the grasses and came up through the mulch place over it. Alot of lawns get remulched over grass and vice versia.

They have done this at the UW on several lawns.

ANd Joshua's spore count can be very much off since he did not have tools to measure the spores correctly.

I have offered to present some specimens to Dr. Joseph Amirrati at thye U of W. He is the Leading mycologist on the west coast and head of the Deprtment of Mycology at the University of Wa..

So far he has not responded to that request.

mj

Edited by mjshroomer (05/05/03 12:47 PM)

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1511262 -

Mj, the fact that workmans patch was cultivated doesnt really matter. Its the fact that hyphae was triggered by favorable weather and reproduced. Tell me what your explanation of why a cultivation patch could fruit where as a true "wild" could not fruit. Sounds more like an attempt to discredit a highly unusual fruiting. Joshuas pictures we can clearly see that a temperate wood loving psilocbye is fruiting and in more than just 1 place. In the world of science you should be eger to embrace a discovery even if it was YOU who made the discovery. Not an attack upon you i am just pointing out something that has had me bothered for awhile. Kinda like when you said guzman had identified them as cyanofribs, END OF STORY. Remember that a sound scientific theory can never be proven right only proven wrong.


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stay off my land

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1511267 -

Quote:
ANd Joshuya's spore count can be very much off since he did not have tools to measure the spores correctly.




Very true!

Quote:
So far he has not responded to that request.



I responded to your last PM before or while you posted this, check your PM's.

Joshua


--------------------
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"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

Edited by Joshua (05/01/03 12:11 PM)

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1511981 -

I should mention to cardboard that only once in thirty years have I ever found a wild patch of P. cyanescens.

They are almost never found. Not even Paul Stamets has found a wild patch.

99.999% of all P. cyanescens found in the Pacific Northwest come from man-made environments. Not from a wild spot. I found 18 specimens off of a logging road in Kingston, Washington in 1978. I have the pictures of them and it was obvious that the spores fell from a tree being hauled out of the clearcut on a logging truck.

While P. pelliculosas grow by the hundreds of thousands in clearcuts, one need only step five feet into the rain forest from the edge of a clear cut and the P. pelliculosas disappear. They too in the wild are very rare. But burnt crush bark, twigs stem-s and branches make for a perfect habitat.

My knownledge of these facts are from thirty years of picking. not two or three years of picking one variety but managing to pick many.

I also have five shrooms which will soon bare my name. New species I discoveed in the last five years. including a new species from here in Kent-Auburn south of Seattle.

three from Thailand and Cambodia.

have a shroomy day,

And again regarding Workmans patch, only one April fruiting since I started collecting is a record. Thats all and it probably would not occur again.

I have also seen people pour out their cubensis aquariums and terrariiums in the summer and still have a few fruits pop up. That does not mean they return.

mj

Edited by mjshroomer (05/05/03 12:51 PM)

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1513182 -

I thank you very much for the time you have devoted to this subject.

Here's some new data. I gained access to a microscope with a micrometer and was able to more accurately determine the spore size. I was also able to closely determine the basidia as four-spored.

The new and more accurate spore size is 9.6-10.2 x 6.0-6.4 w/ 4 spore basidia.

Both characteristics do fit into the cyanofibrillosa category. However, there are still discrepancies such as the habitat, they were not found in the coastal region, and the incurved margin.

I will now send these for microscopic evaluation...I have done what I can do to identify the specie, now it's up to the experts.

Joshua


--------------------
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"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1513393 -

Well done Josh im impressed. Can't wait to hear from the experts...:)


--------------------
EQ's are pointy!

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: PsilocybeTrybe]
    #1515812 -

Bohemica i tells ya. Could be someones patch or a discovery of them fruiting in the pacific northwest. =)


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stay off my land

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: cardboard]
    #1516029 -

They closely match the description for Bohemica. The only exceptions being the cap striation, and stem length and color.

It also mentions that many characteristics are common between bohemica and cyanofibrillosa.

I would prefer bohemica to be the specie (if it is a known specie) because of the potency.

The chances of it being a cultivated patch are pretty low. The patch covers an area about 50 meters long and up to 25 meters wide. I found two patches, the other is located seperate from the first. I looked at the mycelial mass and saw no signs of spawning.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

Edited by Joshua (05/02/03 09:09 PM)

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1516101 -

That is a problem with species complexes opposed to distinct species.I would dearly love to see a DNA analysis and comparison of known Psilocybin species.The variety within specie is fascinating and the IMO genetic heredity of the species will be even more fascinating.
Also, as MJ has pointed out, their association with the work of man.Josh found these in a pile of mulch.What type of vehicle carried it? Where had it been? Could Asian or European spores traveled on equipment used to haul and process the mulch or was it simple yard material?An amazing array of possible vectors, but as also has been pointed out the possibility of unknown species occurring is not outrageous.Consider, in the PNW most mushroom hunting for actives occurs in fall as common knowledge says that is when the greatest likelyhood of succes is.Has a concerted effort been made to find and identify Psilocybian species occuring in spring,or has common knowledge left one or more species unidentified?Given the many niches this genus has filled it hardly seems unlikely that a spring specie or species exist(or are coming into existance to fill yet another man made niche the genus seems to prefer?) At any rate Joshua has made a unique discovery whether it is a new specie or an unusual fruiting of a known specie.Thank you Joshua for adding to the body of knowledge! Another may have simply walked on past and missed them entirely(as may have happened )
WR


--------------------
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
    #1517112 -

Mj wrote: 'If you read my last post, Guzm?n just identified them as Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa'

MJ are you telling me - as experienced as Guzman is - that he would give a positive Identification from a photo? What kind of mycologist would do that? He may well be correct, but your statement that Guzman has made a 100% ID from a photo is almost laughable!
And its not like Guzman has been wrong before?? He did after all Identify a photo of a mushroom from Australia as Ps.Cyanescens until he examined it and realised it was Australiana (although he incorrect delineated this from Subaeruginosa)


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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1517127 -

The first time I talked to an academic about identifying Psilocybes, his first piece of advice was that once you have established it is a psilocybe, forget the macroscopic characteristics. And looking at the photos Agrocybe was a possibility, but i dont think a Stropharia would have been something i would have suggested.
The spore size and habitat are important BUT we must have a look at the cystidia - an accurate description of the pluerocystidia and cl.cystidia. Give us the shape and with the spore-size we will have it IDed in now time.
Get a gill fragment out to Mr.Mushrooms!


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Edited by Zen Peddler (05/03/03 07:10 AM)

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1517133 -

MJ wrote: 'I should mentio0n to cardboard that only once in thirty years havce I ever found a wild patch of P. cyanescens.'

To explain MJ, I think that Cardboard point was more about Cyanescens germinating and establishing itself naturally without human intervention in prefered habitats - including disturbed habitats.
I should mention here that one of the closest species to Ps.Cyanescens being Ps.Australiana (spec. le.type Subaeruginosa) is regularly found in both wild/undisturbed and disturbed habitats - but clearly prefers the later - where it can support better fruiting and appears and much greater numbers. Ps.Australiana was originally thought to be Ps.Cyanescens (Watling) and was only delineated through microscopic differences.
Interestingly, as Ps.Australiana is synonymous with Subaeruginosa, which varies from resembling Cyanescens to resembling Azurescens, one of Guzman's concepts is that Subaeruginosa is an origin species for the likes of Cyanescens, Bohemica and Azurescens. This was based on his incorrect finding of pigmented pluerocystidia, so it is - like much of Guzman's work on Australian Psilocybes - contentious at best.




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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1517176 -

P. bohemica has nothing to do with p. cyanescens. Kreigelsteiners paper was bs. As are some of Gartz.

And P. bohemica looks nothing like Joshua/s mushrooms.

And while it may superficially resemble a P. baeocystis it is nothing like any P. baeocystis anyone has picked making it not like them. Joshuas shroom is a meaty mushroom

Soon, thanks to Joshua I will be able to provide Dr. Joseph Amirrati with some specimens for taxonomic evaluation.

Anyway have a good day. When you do taxonomy on a species you surely can identlfy it.

Howevr I would like to point out that people pick liberty caps (P. semilanceata, and P. strictipes and P. sierrae (=P. subfimetaria) together and cannot tell the difference. The same with P. fimetaria and P. stuntzii. They grow together in the same habitat. and many times in a large lawn of p. Stuntzii you may a fe P. baeocystis.

What diferentiates P. baeocystis from many other species is the 1/16th to 1/4 inch drop in the cap and its pleated-skirt-like edges of the caps.

mj

Edited by mjshroomer (05/05/03 12:55 PM)

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1517196 -

So you agree that you cannot identify a mushroom from macroscopic detail alone?


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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1517268 -

Most if not all P. cyanescens in the PNW are in man-made environments. It would be very rare to find a patch that just appeared due to traveling spores. Since the shrooms only grow in association with c ertain plants or woodchips and mulches. mj. ANd expecially ones which grow under ivy or strawberry plants or in gardens under rhedderdendrons, or roise bushes.

Paul Stamets talked about walking on a lawn of P. stuntziis and then carrying the spores to other lawns.

This is very extrememly rare. If you asked any picker of P. stuntzii in the PNW, you can c rawl on your knees on a lwan and go onto other lawns across the street or down the stereet and never see the P. stuntzii appear other then in the lawns where they were growing when you found them.

Another example is that once in a rare blue moon, people will find a lawn with liberty caps on them. I have picked them with the people from the Indoor Sunshop on Woodland Lawn in the Seattle Arboretum in 1978 and 1979. They were in a field just fetilized.

And three time s in South Center Shopping Center, a great place for mushroosm for almost twnety years due to perpetual lawn care from the Evergreen Tree service,

780% of allt he Boiing lawns at South Center use to have blue ringers on them as did most of the lawns throughout the shopping centers industrielle park. Also a few years in the shopping centers parking lots with lawns between parking places.

The disappearence of the pasture lands south of South Center between Tukwilla and Kent-Auburn account for the laac k of abundant Stuntzii lawns.

The same from Carnation Dairies out in Woodinville region. Bassett and Western in Woodineville sells a product called Fertile Soil and also sod. About 70% of all of their new sods used to produce P. stuntzii, but with the depletion of the Carnation farms growing smaller each year and their pastures disappearing these vast patches are mostly gone now.


Thus Man made environments provide for most species picked inthe PNW.

Even the P. pelliculosa patches in clear-cuts are the result of man made environments providing the nutrients and growth parameters for massive shroom collections in public areas of the states oin the PNW and BC, Canada.

mj

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1517303 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
    #1517312 -

I love this suspense....

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: KOPELANDIAA]
    #1517320 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
    #1518938 -

I just have to agree, this is one of the best and most interesting threads yet.

And still: Joshua you ?da man!

peace..

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: stonErollEr1]
    #1518951 -

'It would be very rare to find a patch that just appeared due to traveling spores'
So your telling me that all of the patches of Cyanescens are the result of human cultivation. As in someone cloning and placing colonised spawn in appropriate areas??
If not then the only other way they got to those locations is through traveling spores.


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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1519072 -

i'm also curious about this statement....how did these babies fruit before man started moving land around, fertilization, landscaping, etc..??



--------------------
If you got one foot in yesterday
And one foot in tomorrow
You are pissin' all over today

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: subterranean]
    #1519488 -

I think it might have something to due with MJ's personal experiances and living down in the city. I live out of the city and have found them fruiting spontaniously in many places. Places that had no human help in spreading the spores and places that have no "woodchips" just forest debris and wild grasses. Take this image for instance, this are true wild cyanescens although i am sure MJ will tell me they are fruiting on woodchips or perhaps that aliens propagted the patch, in either case thats just 1 mans opinion is suppose.


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stay off my land

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: cardboard]
    #1520234 -

nice pic cardboard


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: blaze2]
    #1521230 -

Sure i agree cardboard - but if that is the case his written expression is poor. Firstly he demands that Guzman has identified the mushroom from sight alone, then tells us that cyanescens is distributed around his area, but not by spore traveling.


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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1521457 -

Blue meanie, I have picked P. cyanescens here in Seattle for thirty years. I can go out and find man made patches in a half an hour from my home. And in several different directions from my home in the fall.. And mostly anywhere in any city inthe PNW.

I have also picked them in Oregon, and in Britsh Colombia and in San Francisco and Eureka/Arcada, California, Grants Pass, Portland, Oregon, Everett, Washington, Marysville, Washington and always in a certan kinds of woodchips or mulch. THe PNW is a loggers paradise and the mulch onbtained fromthe loggers who log and make the clearcuts in the PNW, are the spreaders of the spores.

AS I mentioned above, these mushroosm use to appear only in mass piles of Steer-co Woodchips. years later in branches, twigs and stems and bark from alder.

I have observed the mounds of mycelium where Sawdust Supply stacked and stocked and stored their mulch beds for landscapping use.

Another fact about P. cyanescens is that they also love rhoderdendrons, Roses, Verbenas, Strawberry plants and the fitrst three years of ivy planted where they grow. They are mychorizial and have a relationshoip with many plants, often growing in a symbiotic relationship with such plants.

In their natural wild habitat, they grow few and far and inbetween in very small growths and never more than maybe a few fresh ounces to not more than a pound.

However, in man-made environments, they can grow up to fifty or more pounds.

Here are two photos of Mrs. X's backl yard, a garden bed which Paul Stamets, Jonathan OTt, Jeremy Bigwood, Me and a few others had the pleasure to observe in the late 1970s.

This portion of the yard is maybe one-twentieth of the gropwth of shrooms in her back yard. The yard also went completely around her house and into the front gardens also.

Sh had in the summer, had her garden mulched with Bark Mulch from Sawdust Supply. Composed of stems, broken branches and bark.


And a close up of one of the clumps in the first image.



This gareen had approzximately close to one hundred pounds of mushrooms.

Now here from the middle of a clearcut, alongside a logging road, in Kingston Washington, form 1978, I found on a small pathway leading to the woods, again three miles into the clearcut, 18 specimens of P. cyanescens growign on a path off of the logging road.

I did not find any others anywhere else int he are which was actually abundant with P. pelliculosa.



ANd one more image of those P. cyanescens formthe clearcut area in Kingston.



Now it would be knowledgable to any trained mycologist, at least to one who has spent years int he field, that this lone single patch came form spores carried onthe end of cut tree being logged out of the forest area.

If you do not live in such an area then you caould havve no comprehension of what it is like picking in such areas.

I posted several images last year of one million Galerinas growing in such a clear cut, hopefully this fallt he P. pelliculosas will take over the patch.

Mjshroomer.

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! *DELETED* [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1542963 -

Post deleted by toolshroomer

Reason for deletion: Not interested in this stuff anymore.



--------------------
and Viola! Mushrooms!

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: toolshroomer]
    #1543373 -

Joshua has since informed me that the spores he studied were in the range of P. cyanofibrilosa. He is going to forward some specimens to me which I in turn will deliver to the Mycology Department of the U of W.

Updates will followwithin a few weeks after I receive the specimens.

mj

and have a shrooy day.

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1544221 -

the first time i saw those pics of the mushrooms you found on the lawn of Mrs. X i thought, hey, if I found them id just start munching them by the handfulls.
that was years ago :smile:

now id nibble and keep a very watchful eye on the amount.

immagine, just sitting down in a yard and eating a gutful of cyans. good greif


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<a href="https://files.shroomery.org/files/04-03/428144166-sry.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

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Re: Blueing Mushroom Find in Oregon!!! (Microscope pics!!!) [Re: Joshua]
    #1544348 -

Hi all.

Hey, Joshua, I wouldn't send those specimens you found to any middle-hand.

I would contact a mycology-faculty for fungi taxonomy, by my self.

Hey Josh, great job.

Now, don't let anyone get in the way until you have completed it (it might just be a new identity).
The Grofian name suggestion is great too.

Warm regards,

ghoo

Edited by ghoo (05/13/03 05:28 AM)

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Re: Blueing Mushroom Find in Oregon!!! (Microscope pics!!!) [Re: ghoo]
    #1558840 -

*bump*

Has a positive ID come back yet?


--------------------

The blue... the blue!!!

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1560437 -

Your wording is bad MJ.

What you should be saying is that the MAJORITY of P. cyanescens in the PNW are growing in Man made environments.

Your assumption that Spores can't spread from one man made habitat to another man made habitat by means other then MAN is a little too Extreme.

The wind DOES spread spores to condusive environments, and they will grow.

No one doubts that cultivation leads to higher yields, even if the cultivation is unintentional.

Spore germination and growth into a colony is probably extremely rare in an undisturbed habitat. Regardless of Dispersal method. Were dealing with an introduced mushroom.

You guys are arguing and you probably agree. Dispersal is different from establishment.

MJ is correct in saying that Established Psilocybe cyanescens colonies are MAN MADE almost all of the time. Bluemeanie is correct in stating that some of those man made environmnets are colonized by Spores that landed their by NATURAL Dispersal, from the wind and rain.

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1562243 -

I have some fresh specimens that will be dried and sent.

Notice the apparent lack of fibrils on these very fresh specimens.







Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1562380 -

Hi Teonan,

Quote:
The wind DOES spread spores to condusive environments, and they will grow.



I know the wind can spread spores but generally they do not produce large furitings in that manner. At least not the Psilocybe cyanescens or P. stuntzii/fimetaria varieties of Psilocybe which love alder and fresh sod. However, as I noted. Alder is disappearing as a source of mulch becasue of the lack of Clearcuts..

Thats why every now and then I find a small patch of one ounce or less in a place where I would not expect to find them. But as for spores spreading in the wind. Some species like Coprinus can fruit in abundance from spores being spread by the wind but then some species like P. stuntzii which is a pasture mushroom is hardly ever found in any quantity in the field but grows by the pound in a man made environment from fertilizers and spores in the sod which is then planted in the ground.
I talked about how I or you or anyone could crawl on a lawn with Blue ringers growing by the thousands for hours and then crawl on other lawns across the street or down the street and no shroom would ever grow in those other places where one has later crawled.

That is not to say a that a spore might fall and grow somewhere else but that method is rare for man made envionment shrooms such as P. baeocystis, P. pelliculosa, P. azurescens, P. cyanescens, P. stuntzii, P. fimetaria, etc.

Also many fields have liberty caps in them but there are more fields that do do not have liberty caps then there are ones which do.

In the southeast from Texas to Florida to Georgia in the north. There are fields which have P. cubensis in them and then there are more fields which never have P. cubensis ever in them ever. No matter how many times one looks. The majority of fields which do not have P. cubensis in them inthe south and southeast far outnumber the ones that do. And yes those spores do blow around, but most fall directly to the ground below the shroom or within a few feet of where they are disburst from.

mj.

And hi again Joshua, waiting on your specimens. Glad they popped up a few more and sorry to hear that someone has raided your patch.

COuld be someone saw you bent over picking and came back when you were not there or maybe one of your friends.

Every year I have taken a few people oout to teach them how to pick shrooms and there is always someone I later catch sneaking around when I asked them not to. I usually give someone a place of their own to picjk and asked them to respect my spaces. but they do not.

This has been coom for thirty years almost.

have a shroomy day,

mmj

Edited by mjshroomer (05/20/03 05:11 AM)

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1563724 -

I agree with what you are saying.

There are reasons why mushrooms only appear in certain fields, not related to dispersal, but to the environment in that field. A field may look real shroomy, but something at the microenvironment level is preventing growth.

I also agree with what Bluemeanie was saying. Dispersal can and does occur by natural means. Obviously, the quantity of yield is going to be less then actually introducing living mycelium into a condusive environment.

Spore to mycelial colony takes time. A man made environmnet might be extremely condusive to germination at formation, but in the course of the time it takes for the spores to germinate and get a foot hold, MANY faster growing organisms, might already have altered the once condusive environment. Limiting the foothold the Psilocybe might get, resulting in low or no yields.

Spores travel great distances from the actual mushroom that drops them. Eventually the rain stops, the wind picks up, and they get airborne.

Limitations to dispersal are primarily structural(spore wall thickness). They can only go so far before they degrade or lose viability. Some can cross oceans all on their own, others can't make it a mile down the road.

Limitations to growth are what your arguments are supporting.




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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1564062 -

i swear these babies look just like the weillis i have found!! i know they are not, but just curious how these mushies smell?


--------------------
If you got one foot in yesterday
And one foot in tomorrow
You are pissin' all over today

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: subterranean]
    #1564678 -

Like sweet psilocybes!

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1565448 -

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
    #1625719 -

Any update on this story? Did I miss a differnt post?

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Snobrdr311]
    #1625760 -

yea i really wannasee whats up with these bad boys


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This place is gayer than when the balls touch

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Dobie]
    #1625957 -

i third that motion.

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: MagmaManiac]
    #1889564 -

any word on em man


--------------------
This place is gayer than when the balls touch

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Dobie]
    #1890583 -

Last I heard, the guy MJ gave material of this mushroom to has left the university and has left the specimens with another person who is suppose to take a look at them.


Nice work with this mushroom joshua!!! Very impressive. It makes me want a microscope so damn bad!!! I have a few species I'd love to see under a scope. My senior year in highschool was when I very first started to develope an interest in mycology and was able to borrow a microscope and a stereoscope from the science dept. I only got to view some Ps. cubensis that I grew, never did get to look at Ps. weilii, atlantis, my new species, or some of the mystery Pans I find. Man how I wish I had access to a microscope again, I now realize how I took for granted all equipment the school made available to all of us.

Anyways, shoot us an update man, any new info worth sharing?

LK,


--------------------

Edited by Lizard King (09/07/03 09:22 AM)

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Lizard King]
    #1892124 -

So thats all that finally happened with this thread?He gave the shrooms to MJ for ID'ing?I was up to date with this whole thread,Great Job Joshua!!!!!!


--------------------
________________________________
IF IN DOUBT,PLEASE THROW'EM OUT!
________________________________
fa'shizzle dizzle
its tha big parafenizzle
with tha big mushroomizzle
ya gotta know its off tha hizzle

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: aminitaman]
    #8470092 -

So what ever happened here
:confused:

new species?  No?

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: johnm214]
    #8471786 -

wow look alot like weilii with the inrolled cap margins and the tight clusters like that as well as the size weilii are my specialty so its very interesting too see sum other shrooms in a different part of the county that resemble these, great find man:thumbup:

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: weiliiiiiii]
    #8482311 -

yeah, are these people around anymore? Did they ever figure out what that was?

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #8483595 -

Joshua said:
Here are the pics...enjoy! I am pretty sure this is not a mixed collection. The morphology varied greatly when comparing the new specimens to the old specimens.













Joshua 


i live in the portland area and myself and a few friends have been finding mushrooms that look very similar to this...we can't id them and a few people have taken small doses(myself) and confirmed them active...they are growing out of woodchips around the springwater trail area...not really any bluing tho...the spore color is exactly the same as the ones i've been finding...dark chocolate brown almost rust colored...i've found caps with spores all over them and they look a little more purple...

i'll try and post photos of my finds soon so we can compare...

anyways joshua killer find:thumbup::thumbup:!!!!!


--------------------
I'd rather be a human than a person

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: notorius gib]
    #8484315 -

These appear to be Psilocybe subaeruginascens. It likes to fruit in the spring and has been found from so cal to pnw.

notorius gib, the lack of bluing is suspicious. Please start a new thread on them when you get some pictures.

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #8484615 -

Maybe there are really high in psilocybin and low in psilocin thats why they dont bruise blue easily.

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: weiliiiiiii]
    #8488563 -

yeah i finally id'd the ones i was finding...some friends i was with swore they were psilocybe but i had my doubts....funny when we first found them i was like "yeah i wanna say they're real psilocybe-like but they're prolly just some spring agrocybe"...they turned out to be agrocybe praecox:rolleyes:...when i ate them i had a real small dose so it was all placebo effect for me and apparently everybody else...and they were all really stoned when they said they "tripped" off these, i wasn't so all i was feeling was a little anxious due to the fact i thought they were active:tongue:

but yeah i'm definitely gonna learn to trust my first initial gut instict and not my friends' excitement from now on.


--------------------
I'd rather be a human than a person

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: notorius gib]
    #25665103 -

Mjshroomer, compare these to your alenii and let me know what your think.


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #25665363 -

I see ovoids.


--------------------
🅃🄴🄰🄼 🄸🄷🄾🄿


New to cultivation or the shroomery?  Observe the hitchhiker's guide

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery



Smellyhobbit said:
"Wiping a needle with isopropyl after flame sterilization is like shitting after you wipe your ass."

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #25665401 -

Joshua said:
Mjshroomer, compare these to your alenii and let me know what your think.


He hasn't been a member for more than ten years...


--------------------


★★★★★

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #25665489 -

Joshua said:
Mjshroomer, compare these to your alenii and let me know what your think.


Been a minute.  How was your season?  have you found anymore ovoids?  This year was pretty good for them.  I checked 3 days ago and pins are still popping even with the freezing temps.

I've been curious if anything ever came up in those wood chips we made?  I've had better luck with small pots of chips rather than the large beds we made lol.


--------------------





    Eat the meat that’s at your feet.

Edited by Hunter hunter (12/08/18 11:19 AM)

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Mr Piggy]
    #25665806 -

Mr Piggy said:
I see ovoids.


:whathesaid:


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