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 mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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 Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!!  [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1517268 - 05/03/03 08:56 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Most if not all P. cyanescens in the PNW are in man-made environments. It would be very rare to find a patch that just appeared due to traveling spores. Since the shrooms only grow in association with c ertain plants or woodchips and mulches. mj. ANd expecially ones which grow under ivy or strawberry plants or in gardens under rhedderdendrons, or roise bushes.
Paul Stamets talked about walking on a lawn of P. stuntziis and then carrying the spores to other lawns.
This is very extrememly rare. If you asked any picker of P. stuntzii in the PNW, you can c rawl on your knees on a lwan and go onto other lawns across the street or down the stereet and never see the P. stuntzii appear other then in the lawns where they were growing when you found them.
Another example is that once in a rare blue moon, people will find a lawn with liberty caps on them. I have picked them with the people from the Indoor Sunshop on Woodland Lawn in the Seattle Arboretum in 1978 and 1979. They were in a field just fetilized.
And three time s in South Center Shopping Center, a great place for mushroosm for almost twnety years due to perpetual lawn care from the Evergreen Tree service,
780% of allt he Boiing lawns at South Center use to have blue ringers on them as did most of the lawns throughout the shopping centers industrielle park. Also a few years in the shopping centers parking lots with lawns between parking places.
The disappearence of the pasture lands south of South Center between Tukwilla and Kent-Auburn account for the laac k of abundant Stuntzii lawns.
The same from Carnation Dairies out in Woodinville region. Bassett and Western in Woodineville sells a product called Fertile Soil and also sod. About 70% of all of their new sods used to produce P. stuntzii, but with the depletion of the Carnation farms growing smaller each year and their pastures disappearing these vast patches are mostly gone now.
Thus Man made environments provide for most species picked inthe PNW.
Even the P. pelliculosa patches in clear-cuts are the result of man made environments providing the nutrients and growth parameters for massive shroom collections in public areas of the states oin the PNW and BC, Canada.
mj
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Anonymous
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1517303 - 05/03/03 09:49 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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KOPELANDIAA
Stranger
Registered: 11/17/01
Posts: 805
Loc: under a pine
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
#1517312 - 05/03/03 09:55 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I love this suspense....
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Anonymous
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: KOPELANDIAA]
#1517320 - 05/03/03 10:03 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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 stonErollEr1
The Psilocybinsolution
Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 666 
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
#1518938 - 05/04/03 03:54 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just have to agree, this is one of the best and most interesting threads yet.
And still: Joshua you ?da man!
peace..
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Zen Peddler
 
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: stonErollEr1]
#1518951 - 05/04/03 04:25 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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'It would be very rare to find a patch that just appeared due to traveling spores'
So your telling me that all of the patches of Cyanescens are the result of human cultivation. As in someone cloning and placing colonised spawn in appropriate areas??
If not then the only other way they got to those locations is through traveling spores.
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subterranean
Peaceful Warrior
Registered: 10/04/02
Posts: 147
Loc: on the road
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1519072 - 05/04/03 08:20 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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i'm also curious about this statement....how did these babies fruit before man started moving land around, fertilization, landscaping, etc..??
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If you got one foot in yesterday
And one foot in tomorrow
You are pissin' all over today
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cardboard
digitalautomatedansweringmachine
Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 761
Loc: pac northwest
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: subterranean]
#1519488 - 05/04/03 01:17 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think it might have something to due with MJ's personal experiances and living down in the city. I live out of the city and have found them fruiting spontaniously in many places. Places that had no human help in spreading the spores and places that have no "woodchips" just forest debris and wild grasses. Take this image for instance, this are true wild cyanescens although i am sure MJ will tell me they are fruiting on woodchips or perhaps that aliens propagted the patch, in either case thats just 1 mans opinion is suppose.
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stay off my land
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blaze2
The Witness
Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: cardboard]
#1520234 - 05/04/03 07:21 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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nice pic cardboard
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"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein
"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein
"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: blaze2]
#1521230 - 05/05/03 04:05 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sure i agree cardboard - but if that is the case his written expression is poor. Firstly he demands that Guzman has identified the mushroom from sight alone, then tells us that cyanescens is distributed around his area, but not by spore traveling.
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1521457 - 05/05/03 09:06 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Blue meanie, I have picked P. cyanescens here in Seattle for thirty years. I can go out and find man made patches in a half an hour from my home. And in several different directions from my home in the fall.. And mostly anywhere in any city inthe PNW.
I have also picked them in Oregon, and in Britsh Colombia and in San Francisco and Eureka/Arcada, California, Grants Pass, Portland, Oregon, Everett, Washington, Marysville, Washington and always in a certan kinds of woodchips or mulch. THe PNW is a loggers paradise and the mulch onbtained fromthe loggers who log and make the clearcuts in the PNW, are the spreaders of the spores.
AS I mentioned above, these mushroosm use to appear only in mass piles of Steer-co Woodchips. years later in branches, twigs and stems and bark from alder.
I have observed the mounds of mycelium where Sawdust Supply stacked and stocked and stored their mulch beds for landscapping use.
Another fact about P. cyanescens is that they also love rhoderdendrons, Roses, Verbenas, Strawberry plants and the fitrst three years of ivy planted where they grow. They are mychorizial and have a relationshoip with many plants, often growing in a symbiotic relationship with such plants.
In their natural wild habitat, they grow few and far and inbetween in very small growths and never more than maybe a few fresh ounces to not more than a pound.
However, in man-made environments, they can grow up to fifty or more pounds.
Here are two photos of Mrs. X's backl yard, a garden bed which Paul Stamets, Jonathan OTt, Jeremy Bigwood, Me and a few others had the pleasure to observe in the late 1970s.
This portion of the yard is maybe one-twentieth of the gropwth of shrooms in her back yard. The yard also went completely around her house and into the front gardens also.
Sh had in the summer, had her garden mulched with Bark Mulch from Sawdust Supply. Composed of stems, broken branches and bark.
And a close up of one of the clumps in the first image.
This gareen had approzximately close to one hundred pounds of mushrooms.
Now here from the middle of a clearcut, alongside a logging road, in Kingston Washington, form 1978, I found on a small pathway leading to the woods, again three miles into the clearcut, 18 specimens of P. cyanescens growign on a path off of the logging road.
I did not find any others anywhere else int he are which was actually abundant with P. pelliculosa.
ANd one more image of those P. cyanescens formthe clearcut area in Kingston.
Now it would be knowledgable to any trained mycologist, at least to one who has spent years int he field, that this lone single patch came form spores carried onthe end of cut tree being logged out of the forest area.
If you do not live in such an area then you caould havve no comprehension of what it is like picking in such areas.
I posted several images last year of one million Galerinas growing in such a clear cut, hopefully this fallt he P. pelliculosas will take over the patch.
Mjshroomer.
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toolshroomer
smokin' all daylong..
Registered: 11/05/01
Posts: 283
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! *DELETED* [Re: mjshroomer]
#1542963 - 05/12/03 08:14 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted by toolshroomerReason for deletion: Not interested in this stuff anymore.
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and Viola! Mushrooms!
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: toolshroomer]
#1543373 - 05/12/03 10:18 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Joshua has since informed me that the spores he studied were in the range of P. cyanofibrilosa. He is going to forward some specimens to me which I in turn will deliver to the Mycology Department of the U of W.
Updates will followwithin a few weeks after I receive the specimens.
mj
and have a shrooy day.
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Mitchnast
Toadmonger
Registered: 10/27/99
Posts: 8,655
Loc: Okanagan
Last seen: 5 days, 18 hours
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
#1544221 - 05/13/03 02:44 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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the first time i saw those pics of the mushrooms you found on the lawn of Mrs. X i thought, hey, if I found them id just start munching them by the handfulls.
that was years ago 
now id nibble and keep a very watchful eye on the amount.
immagine, just sitting down in a yard and eating a gutful of cyans. good greif
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ghoo
Journeyman
Registered: 03/25/02
Posts: 4
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
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Re: Blueing Mushroom Find in Oregon!!! (Microscope pics!!!) [Re: Joshua]
#1544348 - 05/13/03 05:23 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hi all.
Hey, Joshua, I wouldn't send those specimens you found to any middle-hand.
I would contact a mycology-faculty for fungi taxonomy, by my self.
Hey Josh, great job.
Now, don't let anyone get in the way until you have completed it (it might just be a new identity).
The Grofian name suggestion is great too.
Warm regards,
ghoo
Edited by ghoo (05/13/03 05:28 AM)
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Rustik
Where am I?
Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 289
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: Blueing Mushroom Find in Oregon!!! (Microscope pics!!!) [Re: ghoo]
#1558840 - 05/18/03 09:19 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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*bump*
Has a positive ID come back yet?
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The blue... the blue!!!
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Anonymous
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
#1560437 - 05/19/03 03:01 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Your wording is bad MJ.
What you should be saying is that the MAJORITY of P. cyanescens in the PNW are growing in Man made environments.
Your assumption that Spores can't spread from one man made habitat to another man made habitat by means other then MAN is a little too Extreme.
The wind DOES spread spores to condusive environments, and they will grow.
No one doubts that cultivation leads to higher yields, even if the cultivation is unintentional.
Spore germination and growth into a colony is probably extremely rare in an undisturbed habitat. Regardless of Dispersal method. Were dealing with an introduced mushroom.
You guys are arguing and you probably agree. Dispersal is different from establishment.
MJ is correct in saying that Established Psilocybe cyanescens colonies are MAN MADE almost all of the time. Bluemeanie is correct in stating that some of those man made environmnets are colonized by Spores that landed their by NATURAL Dispersal, from the wind and rain.
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Joshua
Holoman
Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 5,398
Loc: The Matrix
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 Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
#1562243 - 05/20/03 01:50 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have some fresh specimens that will be dried and sent.
Notice the apparent lack of fibrils on these very fresh specimens.
Joshua
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The Shroomery Bookstore
Great books for inquiring minds!
"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
#1562380 - 05/20/03 05:09 AM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hi Teonan,
Quote:
The wind DOES spread spores to condusive environments, and they will grow.
I know the wind can spread spores but generally they do not produce large furitings in that manner. At least not the Psilocybe cyanescens or P. stuntzii/fimetaria varieties of Psilocybe which love alder and fresh sod. However, as I noted. Alder is disappearing as a source of mulch becasue of the lack of Clearcuts..
Thats why every now and then I find a small patch of one ounce or less in a place where I would not expect to find them. But as for spores spreading in the wind. Some species like Coprinus can fruit in abundance from spores being spread by the wind but then some species like P. stuntzii which is a pasture mushroom is hardly ever found in any quantity in the field but grows by the pound in a man made environment from fertilizers and spores in the sod which is then planted in the ground.
I talked about how I or you or anyone could crawl on a lawn with Blue ringers growing by the thousands for hours and then crawl on other lawns across the street or down the street and no shroom would ever grow in those other places where one has later crawled.
That is not to say a that a spore might fall and grow somewhere else but that method is rare for man made envionment shrooms such as P. baeocystis, P. pelliculosa, P. azurescens, P. cyanescens, P. stuntzii, P. fimetaria, etc.
Also many fields have liberty caps in them but there are more fields that do do not have liberty caps then there are ones which do.
In the southeast from Texas to Florida to Georgia in the north. There are fields which have P. cubensis in them and then there are more fields which never have P. cubensis ever in them ever. No matter how many times one looks. The majority of fields which do not have P. cubensis in them inthe south and southeast far outnumber the ones that do. And yes those spores do blow around, but most fall directly to the ground below the shroom or within a few feet of where they are disburst from.
mj.
And hi again Joshua, waiting on your specimens. Glad they popped up a few more and sorry to hear that someone has raided your patch.
COuld be someone saw you bent over picking and came back when you were not there or maybe one of your friends.
Every year I have taken a few people oout to teach them how to pick shrooms and there is always someone I later catch sneaking around when I asked them not to. I usually give someone a place of their own to picjk and asked them to respect my spaces. but they do not.
This has been coom for thirty years almost.
have a shroomy day,
mmj
Edited by mjshroomer (05/20/03 05:11 AM)
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Anonymous
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
#1563724 - 05/20/03 06:17 PM (20 years, 4 months ago) |
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I agree with what you are saying.
There are reasons why mushrooms only appear in certain fields, not related to dispersal, but to the environment in that field. A field may look real shroomy, but something at the microenvironment level is preventing growth.
I also agree with what Bluemeanie was saying. Dispersal can and does occur by natural means. Obviously, the quantity of yield is going to be less then actually introducing living mycelium into a condusive environment.
Spore to mycelial colony takes time. A man made environmnet might be extremely condusive to germination at formation, but in the course of the time it takes for the spores to germinate and get a foot hold, MANY faster growing organisms, might already have altered the once condusive environment. Limiting the foothold the Psilocybe might get, resulting in low or no yields.
Spores travel great distances from the actual mushroom that drops them. Eventually the rain stops, the wind picks up, and they get airborne.
Limitations to dispersal are primarily structural(spore wall thickness). They can only go so far before they degrade or lose viability. Some can cross oceans all on their own, others can't make it a mile down the road.
Limitations to growth are what your arguments are supporting.
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