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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1510397 - 05/01/03 03:42 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

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Offlinecanid
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
    #1510403 - 05/01/03 03:45 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

yeah, i'd not get my panties [you heard me, i wear panties from time to time :wink: ] in a bunch about it yet, but yeah, it'd be awesome if it was a new species.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

Edited by concretefeet (05/01/03 03:46 AM)

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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
    #1510409 - 05/01/03 03:49 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

The pic was downloaded over a year ago, I do not have a thumb image for it...I will remove it.

Quote:

If you look at the picture of P. caerulea in PMOTW they don't appear to have the gill attachment described in the literature.




Good eye!

Joshua


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"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

Edited by Joshua (05/01/03 03:54 AM)

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1510651 - 05/01/03 08:02 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Cool, Dude...

Psilocybe  holotropii , Psilocybe  holotropii , Psilocybe  holotropii... :wink: 

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1510656 - 05/01/03 08:06 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)



A picture of Stropharia aeruginosa from Seattle, Washington. Very thick caps and very meaty shrooms.

mj

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Offlinecardboard
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1511183 - 05/01/03 11:29 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Macroscopically joshuas are different from every pacific northwest specie there is, perhaps this is due to an unseasonal fruiting. Stropharia aeroginsa fruits around pretty much year round however, of course there is a HUGE macroscopic difference between that specie and what Joshua has gathered. There are 2 big mysterys really, A what specie has joshue discovered and B why is it fruiting in the spring, fruitings of woodloving temperate psilocybes normally only occurs in the fall. However we have seen Workmans pictures of ps cyanescen which is/was fruiting in our very odd spring weather. Those 2 factors make an ID very difficult (not to mention the wacky spore size you discovered). I wish you goodluck trying to come up with an ID joshua. Is there a chance perhaps that this fungus specie has been growing in the woodchips (could be all over) and has just now (this spring) found conditions favorable of reproducing sexually (producing fruitbodies). This is a highly irregular spring given that cyanescens have been fruiting. Just another element to the mystery i suppose.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: cardboard]
    #1511216 - 05/01/03 11:44 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Remember that Workman's P. cyanescens was a transplanted patch thet he created rich in the nurients desired by the mychorrizial P. cyanescens. That is a major fluke. But there are no other patches of such P. cyanescens fruiting. Only Workman's.

I did find one year in Markch of 1986 across the street from the zoo on Phinney street a patch of mulched in P. stuntzii's but later learned that the landscappers put the mulch right on top of a newly sodded lawn five weeks after the lawn was planted. That popped up through the grasses and came up through the mulch place over it. Alot of lawns get remulched over grass and vice versia.

They have done this at the UW on several lawns.

ANd Joshua's spore count can be very much off since he did not have tools to measure the spores correctly.

I have offered to present some specimens to Dr. Joseph Amirrati at thye U of W. He is the Leading mycologist on the west coast and head of the Deprtment of Mycology at the University of Wa..

So far he has not responded to that request.

mj

Edited by mjshroomer (05/05/03 12:47 PM)

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Offlinecardboard
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1511262 - 05/01/03 11:58 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Mj, the fact that workmans patch was cultivated doesnt really matter. Its the fact that hyphae was triggered by favorable weather and reproduced. Tell me what your explanation of why a cultivation patch could fruit where as a true "wild" could not fruit. Sounds more like an attempt to discredit a highly unusual fruiting. Joshuas pictures we can clearly see that a temperate wood loving psilocbye is fruiting and in more than just 1 place. In the world of science you should be eger to embrace a discovery even if it was YOU who made the discovery. Not an attack upon you i am just pointing out something that has had me bothered for awhile. Kinda like when you said guzman had identified them as cyanofribs, END OF STORY. Remember that a sound scientific theory can never be proven right only proven wrong.


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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1511267 - 05/01/03 11:59 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ANd Joshuya's spore count can be very much off since he did not have tools to measure the spores correctly.





Very true!

Quote:

So far he has not responded to that request.




I responded to your last PM before or while you posted this, check your PM's.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

Edited by Joshua (05/01/03 12:11 PM)

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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1511981 - 05/01/03 04:36 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

I should mention to cardboard that only once in thirty years have I ever found a wild patch of P. cyanescens.

They are almost never found. Not even Paul Stamets has found a wild patch.

99.999% of all P. cyanescens found in the Pacific Northwest come from man-made environments. Not from a wild spot. I found 18 specimens off of a logging road in Kingston, Washington in 1978. I have the pictures of them and it was obvious that the spores fell from a tree being hauled out of the clearcut on a logging truck.

While P. pelliculosas grow by the hundreds of thousands in clearcuts, one need only step five feet into the rain forest from the edge of a clear cut and the P. pelliculosas disappear. They too in the wild are very rare. But burnt crush bark, twigs stem-s and branches make for a perfect habitat.

My knownledge of these facts are from thirty years of picking. not two or three years of picking one variety but managing to pick many.

I also have five shrooms which will soon bare my name. New species I discoveed in the last five years. including a new species from here in Kent-Auburn south of Seattle.

three from Thailand and Cambodia.

have a shroomy day,

And again regarding Workmans patch, only one April fruiting since I started collecting is a record. Thats all and it probably would not occur again.

I have also seen people pour out their cubensis aquariums and terrariiums in the summer and still have a few fruits pop up. That does not mean they return.

mj

Edited by mjshroomer (05/05/03 12:51 PM)

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InvisibleJoshua
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1513182 - 05/01/03 09:40 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

I thank you very much for the time you have devoted to this subject.

Here's some new data. I gained access to a microscope with a micrometer and was able to more accurately determine the spore size. I was also able to closely determine the basidia as four-spored.

The new and more accurate spore size is 9.6-10.2 x 6.0-6.4 w/ 4 spore basidia.

Both characteristics do fit into the cyanofibrillosa category. However, there are still discrepancies such as the habitat, they were not found in the coastal region, and the incurved margin.

I will now send these for microscopic evaluation...I have done what I can do to identify the specie, now it's up to the experts.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1513393 - 05/01/03 10:57 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Well done Josh im impressed. Can't wait to hear from the experts...:)


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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: PsilocybeTrybe]
    #1515812 - 05/02/03 07:35 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Bohemica i tells ya. Could be someones patch or a discovery of them fruiting in the pacific northwest. =)


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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: cardboard]
    #1516029 - 05/02/03 09:02 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

They closely match the description for Bohemica. The only exceptions being the cap striation, and stem length and color.

It also mentions that many characteristics are common between bohemica and cyanofibrillosa.

I would prefer bohemica to be the specie (if it is a known specie) because of the potency.

The chances of it being a cultivated patch are pretty low. The patch covers an area about 50 meters long and up to 25 meters wide. I found two patches, the other is located seperate from the first. I looked at the mycelial mass and saw no signs of spawning.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"

Edited by Joshua (05/02/03 09:09 PM)

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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1516101 - 05/02/03 09:35 PM (20 years, 9 months ago)

That is a problem with species complexes opposed to distinct species.I would dearly love to see a DNA analysis and comparison of known Psilocybin species.The variety within specie is fascinating and the IMO genetic heredity of the species will be even more fascinating.
Also, as MJ has pointed out, their association with the work of man.Josh found these in a pile of mulch.What type of vehicle carried it? Where had it been? Could Asian or European spores traveled on equipment used to haul and process the mulch or was it simple yard material?An amazing array of possible vectors, but as also has been pointed out the possibility of unknown species occurring is not outrageous.Consider, in the PNW most mushroom hunting for actives occurs in fall as common knowledge says that is when the greatest likelyhood of succes is.Has a concerted effort been made to find and identify Psilocybian species occuring in spring,or has common knowledge left one or more species unidentified?Given the many niches this genus has filled it hardly seems unlikely that a spring specie or species exist(or are coming into existance to fill yet another man made niche the genus seems to prefer?) At any rate Joshua has made a unique discovery whether it is a new specie or an unusual fruiting of a known specie.Thank you Joshua for adding to the body of knowledge! Another may have simply walked on past and missed them entirely(as may have happened )
WR


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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
    #1517112 - 05/03/03 06:46 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

Mj wrote: 'If you read my last post, Guzm?n just identified them as Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa'

MJ are you telling me - as experienced as Guzman is - that he would give a positive Identification from a photo? What kind of mycologist would do that? He may well be correct, but your statement that Guzman has made a 100% ID from a photo is almost laughable!
And its not like Guzman has been wrong before?? He did after all Identify a photo of a mushroom from Australia as Ps.Cyanescens until he examined it and realised it was Australiana (although he incorrect delineated this from Subaeruginosa)


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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1517127 - 05/03/03 07:01 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

The first time I talked to an academic about identifying Psilocybes, his first piece of advice was that once you have established it is a psilocybe, forget the macroscopic characteristics. And looking at the photos Agrocybe was a possibility, but i dont think a Stropharia would have been something i would have suggested.
The spore size and habitat are important BUT we must have a look at the cystidia - an accurate description of the pluerocystidia and cl.cystidia. Give us the shape and with the spore-size we will have it IDed in now time.
Get a gill fragment out to Mr.Mushrooms!


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Edited by Zen Peddler (05/03/03 07:10 AM)

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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1517133 - 05/03/03 07:09 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

MJ wrote: 'I should mentio0n to cardboard that only once in thirty years havce I ever found a wild patch of P. cyanescens.'

To explain MJ, I think that Cardboard point was more about Cyanescens germinating and establishing itself naturally without human intervention in prefered habitats - including disturbed habitats.
I should mention here that one of the closest species to Ps.Cyanescens being Ps.Australiana (spec. le.type Subaeruginosa) is regularly found in both wild/undisturbed and disturbed habitats - but clearly prefers the later - where it can support better fruiting and appears and much greater numbers. Ps.Australiana was originally thought to be Ps.Cyanescens (Watling) and was only delineated through microscopic differences.
Interestingly, as Ps.Australiana is synonymous with Subaeruginosa, which varies from resembling Cyanescens to resembling Azurescens, one of Guzman's concepts is that Subaeruginosa is an origin species for the likes of Cyanescens, Bohemica and Azurescens. This was based on his incorrect finding of pigmented pluerocystidia, so it is - like much of Guzman's work on Australian Psilocybes - contentious at best.




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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1517176 - 05/03/03 07:40 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

P. bohemica has nothing to do with p. cyanescens. Kreigelsteiners paper was bs. As are some of Gartz.

And P. bohemica looks nothing like Joshua/s mushrooms.

And while it may superficially resemble a P. baeocystis it is nothing like any P. baeocystis anyone has picked making it not like them. Joshuas shroom is a meaty mushroom

Soon, thanks to Joshua I will be able to provide Dr. Joseph Amirrati with some specimens for taxonomic evaluation.

Anyway have a good day. When you do taxonomy on a species you surely can identlfy it.

Howevr I would like to point out that people pick liberty caps (P. semilanceata, and P. strictipes and P. sierrae (=P. subfimetaria) together and cannot tell the difference. The same with P. fimetaria and P. stuntzii. They grow together in the same habitat. and many times in a large lawn of p. Stuntzii you may a fe P. baeocystis.

What diferentiates P. baeocystis from many other species is the 1/16th to 1/4 inch drop in the cap and its pleated-skirt-like edges of the caps.

mj

Edited by mjshroomer (05/05/03 12:55 PM)

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Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1517196 - 05/03/03 07:54 AM (20 years, 9 months ago)

So you agree that you cannot identify a mushroom from macroscopic detail alone?


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