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Offlineshaniatwain
pawn
Registered: 10/24/01
Posts: 27
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1505956 - 04/29/03 10:28 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I do not thinkit is a Psilocybe.

Maybe a Cortinarius, . I do not think the bluing is psilocine/psilocybine.

Mj. Some stropharias look like that also 




and
Quote:

Ey, i would concure they are not in the Psilocybe family, they seem much to large and meaty for a temperate woodlover. Perhaps some stropharia specie or as mj suggests a Cortinarius.




 
Quote:

  Workman, I can assure you that they are not Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa as I have collect ed those on many ocassions. A stropharia maybe but i am sure they are not a psilocybe, at least not an active one.





mushroom john is very funny haha.
love to hear the squawking.....
peace. :grin: :confused: :ooo: 


--------------------
yep.....


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Anonymous

Post deleted by Administrator [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1506014 - 04/29/03 10:49 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)



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Offlinecardboard
digitalautomatedansweringmachine

Registered: 08/07/00
Posts: 761
Loc: pac northwest
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
    #1506030 - 04/29/03 10:56 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

aeruginosa is not an active mushroom. I will accept ps cyanofribrollsa, but i find it hard to believe guzman whose not even from our region can identify a mushroom by those pictures.


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stay off my land


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: cardboard]
    #1506237 - 04/30/03 12:31 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Guzman has collected extensively here in the PNW many times. He knows the species from this region and is the leading expert on the genus Psilocybe.

The name of the species is Psilocybe cyanofibrillosa Stamets and Guzm?n. He did the original taxonomy and named the species along with Paul Stamets.

Okay Cardboard.

have a shroomy day the mystery has been solved. mj

WOOBY WOOBY WOO.


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InvisibleJoshua
Holoman
Male

Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 5,398
Loc: The Matrix
Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1506329 - 04/30/03 01:06 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Has Guzman collected more specimens of various Psilocybes in the Northwest than you? A photographic ID is no more valid than an expired bus ticket.

I will be viewing the spores and gills tomorrow. I will try to take some pictures as well. Microscopic identification is much more accurate as we all should know.

for those who are interested---For your homework I ask that you look up the microscopic standard for the spores of cyanofribillosa. If you post the details here, we will all be for the better.

MJ...if you could crossreference the various works you have access to and let me know if and what the consensus for the spore shape/size/structure is...I would be grateful. I will do the same with the books I have.

Stay posted as I will have some microscopic pics for you all tomorrow...I hope.

Joshua


--------------------
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"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"


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OfflinePsilocybeTrybe
Azurepower

Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 17
Loc: PDX
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1506386 - 04/30/03 01:24 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"Nice microscope pics", this is such great discussion you have started Josh!

That should be fun looking at those spores under a microscope. "My question is

how will you take a close up picture of them"?

I miss all the challenges of this great hobbie :frown:  Someday i will get to practice my skills again...


--------------------
EQ's are pointy!


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InvisibleJoshua
Holoman
Male

Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 5,398
Loc: The Matrix
Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: PsilocybeTrybe]
    #1506409 - 04/30/03 01:36 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I will place the lens of my camera to the occular of the microscope and hope that it works.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"


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OfflinePsilocybeTrybe
Azurepower

Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 17
Loc: PDX
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1506422 - 04/30/03 01:45 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

"Ahhhhhh... I see". Can't wait!


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EQ's are pointy!


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Anonymous

Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1506492 - 04/30/03 02:20 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


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Offlinecardboard
digitalautomatedansweringmachine

Registered: 08/07/00
Posts: 761
Loc: pac northwest
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
    #1507043 - 04/30/03 10:23 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Excellent joshue, micrcoscopic evaluation will do the trick. Check what you see against the guidelines for ps baeocystis as well, i believe (having never viewed them under the microscope) that baeo spores are quiet distinct. Workman pointed out earlier in this thread ps baeocystis has a distinct mango shaped spore.

And Mj, i was challenging you or guzman i was just pointing out the obvious that a concrete identification based on even the best macroscopic photos is not the final verdict. I do appreciate the woob woooby woo, that was classic.


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stay off my land


Edited by cardboard (04/30/03 10:25 AM)


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: ]
    #1507052 - 04/30/03 10:29 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Hi Mr. M
Joshua,
here are the pages form Paul Stamets and Guzm?n's paper on the naming of the species.











mjshroomer

Joshua, did you get my pm's?

mj


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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1507059 - 04/30/03 10:31 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

AND A WOBBLE WHOA WHOA

mj


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Offlinecardboard
digitalautomatedansweringmachine

Registered: 08/07/00
Posts: 761
Loc: pac northwest
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: cardboard]
    #1507060 - 04/30/03 10:31 AM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I was just flipping through stamets book looking at spore details, and noticed some similarities between your collection and Ps bohemica. Another possible explanation of what you found, bohemica has pleurocystidia present (but few) and a cheilocystidia are larger than both baeocystis and cyanofribrollsa, up to 9 microns wide. Hope that helps.


--------------------
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Invisiblemjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/22/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: cardboard]
    #1507204 - 04/30/03 12:00 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

Agaoin, P. bohemica is a European speices and is not in the USA.

HEre are a few images of P. bohemica.







ANd a beautiful one



Mjshroomer

Remember that a shroom microscopically similar is a lot different macroscopically.



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InvisibleJoshua
Holoman
Male

Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 5,398
Loc: The Matrix
Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: mjshroomer]
    #1508466 - 04/30/03 06:45 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I remember last year you saying that subcubensis are only found in Ecuador. Just a couple weeks ago you posted that they can be found in South America, certain parts of Asia, and Australia.

Just because a species hasn't been published to occur in a different area doesn't mean it cant exist in that area.

I think a very small sample of the actual species out there are found by those who can publish a scientific paper. I would imagine that many more species are found by the common mushroom picker and are not immediately available to scientific literature.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"


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OfflineLizard King
King Lizard

Registered: 10/04/99
Posts: 1,998
Loc: GA
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Joshua]
    #1508528 - 04/30/03 07:00 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not gonna get in on this one, I just wanted to say very very cool find joshua!!! And man they sure do look like weilii eh :smile: I mean I know they aren't, but they sure have some similarities, but as pointed out several times, mushrooms in the psilocybe genus often do look very similar.

And not to discredit anyone, but don't take the resident "expert" opinion for gospel, if you want something done, ya gotta do it yer self. Looks like your well on your way to doing just that, so good luck and keep us posted.


LK,


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Invisiblewhiterasta
Day careobserver
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1,780
Loc: Oregon
Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Lizard King]
    #1508665 - 04/30/03 08:01 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

No matter what species they are Joshua,You Da Man! they are definately an uncommon if not original find.To think that ALL of the active Psilocybes have been collected and categorized is a bit arrogant.As knowledge and interest increase so will finds like yours.Bravo on whatever species it is as it is obviously rare,and should it be a unique specie think up as unique a species name as you can all of this lastnamensis or obviousfeaturescens crap has got to stop.Perhaps
Psilocybe confound'emopsis?or Ps.expertsdon'tnosis;) any way get the scope out and photo all of it you can.Mount tissue slides,document,document,document.

MJ: Does the farmer who feeds the cubies to his cows live in the salem area? reliable reports of LARGE cubes found in dairy fields are coming from the area.

Bon Chance.WR


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OfflinePsilocybeTrybe
Azurepower

Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 17
Loc: PDX
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: whiterasta]
    #1508713 - 04/30/03 08:15 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I can't wait!


--------------------
EQ's are pointy!


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InvisibleJoshua
Holoman
Male

Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 5,398
Loc: The Matrix
Re: Possible Baeocystis Find in Oregon!!! [Re: Lizard King]
    #1508756 - 04/30/03 08:29 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

I have always been one to make my own judgements and decisions. I will take others opinions into consideration though.

I was unable to get a good look at the sporulating structure. I need to learn the proper preparation for that type of viewing.

I did however get some good spore pics.

Here is a pic comparing the spores I collected to erythrocytes (red blood cells) viewed at 1000x.



And a close-up, another 2-3x. Total magnification 2000-3000x



The average red blood cell is 5.5-8 microns in diameter depending on your source ( 1, 2, 3 ).

I will assume these red blood cells to be average and use the figure of 7 microns. Using that figure and doing some mathematical conversions I estimate the average size of my spores to be 7.4 x 4.5 microns. They appear to be very mango shaped to me, however are much to small in comparison to the expected spore size for baeocystis (10-12 x 6-7 microns) or cyanofribillosa (9.5-11 x 6-6.6 microns).

If I multiply my size figures from my spores by a factor of 1.5 I am right in the range for baeocystis, however the blood cell I looked at would then be a wopping 10.5 microns in diameter, well outside the range for a normal erythrocyte. If I do the same using a 1.38 multiplication factor to match the spore size to cyanofribillosa I would have a 9.7 micron blood cell.

The slide of erythrocytes was from a biological company. I assume the cells are standard sized cells as they are to be used as samples for microscopy work.

In conclusion...I am still uncertain what specie I have found as both the microscopic and macroscopic features do not match any species I am familiar with.

Any ideas?

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"


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InvisibleJoshua
Holoman
Male

Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 5,398
Loc: The Matrix
Microscope pics are here!!! [Re: whiterasta]
    #1508769 - 04/30/03 08:33 PM (18 years, 7 months ago)

If this is new...and if I have any say. I will name it P. holotropii in honor of Stanislav Grof and the idea of holotropism, an idea that Psilocybe mushrooms have helped me to understand.

Joshua


--------------------
The Shroomery Bookstore

Great books for inquiring minds!

"Life After Death is Saprophytic!"


Edited by Joshua (04/30/03 08:39 PM)


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