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OfflinemotamanM
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Judge Makes Ruling in Peyote Case * 1
    #1495415 - 04/26/03 09:48 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14821-2003Apr22.html


Judge Makes Ruling in Peyote Case

By JAMES PRICHARD
The Associated Press
Tuesday, April 22, 2003; 3:07 PM


WHITE CLOUD, Mich. - A family court judge ruled Tuesday that a 4-year-old boy cannot take peyote at American Indian spiritual ceremonies.

In his decision, Judge Graydon W. Dimkoff wrote that "peyote is dangerous, and in general should be avoided." He went on to state, however, that the boy could ingest peyote when he is fully aware of the implications, is physically and emotionally ready, and has the permission of both parents.

The boy's father, Jonathan Fowler, 36, a member of the Grand Traverse Band of Ottawa and Chippewa Indians, had asked Dimkoff to reverse an earlier decision and allow his son to ingest sacramental peyote with him at the Native American Church of the Morning Star.

Kristin Hanslovsky, Fowler's ex-wife, had fought the request, saying she did not want to violate anyone's religious freedom, but giving the boy peyote could cause long-term neurological defects.

Fowler's attorney, Thomas Myers, of Michigan Indian Legal Services, has said the case was about ensuring that "rights guaranteed to Native Americans by treaty or statute are secured, and I think that would include constitutional rights."

Peyote, a bitter-tasting cactus that grows in southern Texas and northern Mexico, has been a part of Indian culture for thousands of years. Those who ingest the plant - usually drunk as a tea or eaten as a greenish paste - believe it provides enlightenment and other spiritual and physical benefits.

The plant's active chemical ingredient is mescaline, a hallucinogen. The U.S. criminal code classifies peyote as a controlled substance, and in most instances a person caught with more than 4 ounces faces the possibility of a 20-year prison sentence.

But during the last century, peyote's use in religious rites spread among American Indians throughout the United States, including the upper Midwest. Congress recognized this sacramental use of peyote eight years ago by amending the American Indian Religious Freedom Act of 1978 to protect the practice in all 50 states.

Testifying on Fowler's behalf at a court hearing last year, John H. Halpern, a psychiatrist at Harvard Medical School, said he has found no evidence of a child or adult being harmed by the use of peyote in Indian religious services.

"This is a sacred ceremony," said Halpern, who has conducted an extensive study of peyote use among Indians. "It's not something to entertain people."

About 300,000 Indians who belong to the Native American Church of North America, the nation's largest church for indigenous peoples, ingest some form of the cactus, Halpern said.

Some of the churches do not let young children ingest peyote, however. At the Peyote Way Church of God in Klondike, Ariz., a person must be at least 18 - or 14, with parental permission - to take the substance.

"Peyote is an introspective experience," said church co-director Anne Zapf. "It's a God experience and generally you have to have a few sins under your belt."



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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Judge Makes Ruling in Peyote Case [Re: motaman] * 1
    #1495423 - 04/26/03 10:05 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

In his decision, Judge Graydon W. Dimkoff wrote that "peyote is dangerous, and in general should be avoided." He went on to state, however, that the boy could ingest peyote when he is fully aware of the implications, is physically and emotionally ready, and has the permission of both parents.




I actually agree with this one... though I think the same should apply to children in the Christian faith that drink wine for communion. Alcohol is just as dangerous, if not more so, than peyote.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Judge Makes Ruling in Peyote Case [Re: Seuss] * 1
    #1500307 - 04/28/03 11:28 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I think the two are totally different. I agree with the Judge's ruling, actually. No 4 year old should be given any hallucinogenic substance. But nobody is drinking like, a thimbleful of wine at communion to get drunk. I dont care if your 2 years old, its not gonna happen. The whole purpose of a peyote ceremony (as I understand it), is to ingest enough of the drug to feel its mind-altering properties, yes? So I fail to see the comparison your after....


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

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OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
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Re: Judge Makes Ruling in Peyote Case [Re: Madtowntripper] * 1
    #1501222 - 04/28/03 05:56 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

As I recall, this case did not involve a father who wanted his child to ingest the peyote. In fact, the ceremony called for a paste made from peyote to be smeared across the child's forehead. Peyote isn't LSD, the kid would not have felt any effects from the mescline. This is just a media tactic to make it look like peyote using religions are fanatic child abusing cults.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Judge Makes Ruling in Peyote Case [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst] * 1
    #1501368 - 04/28/03 06:28 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

"Jonathan Fowler, 36, a member of the Grand Traverse Band of Ottawa and Chippewa Indians, had asked Dimkoff to reverse an earlier decision and allow his son to ingest sacramental peyote with him"

Ingest, says the article...In two places...Not to say the media is infallible...


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Judge Makes Ruling in Peyote Case [Re: Madtowntripper] * 1
    #1501637 - 04/28/03 07:47 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

You would think the son of an all knowing God would know that even if he didn't read the article.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinesocratesmind
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Re: Judge Makes Ruling in Peyote Case [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #1502694 - 04/29/03 12:27 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

well even traditional indian uses of peyote have been reported that the active mescaline content isnt more than 100 or 200 mg which as we all know isn't enuff for a full fledged trip at least according to erowid. erowid claims 500mg is needed. regardless i doubt that they would feed the child large amounts of peyote and also he's a kid if it taste like shit he probably won't eat it and peyote isn't the best tasting stuff.


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Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.
- Abraham Lincoln: Speech in the Illinois House of Representatives, Dec 18, 1840.


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OfflineJssMthrFcknChrst
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Re: Judge Makes Ruling in Peyote Case [Re: socratesmind] * 1
    #1503091 - 04/29/03 03:06 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

The original article in the parent of this thread is the mega-media (ap or some other such source) line, that omits the small but relivant information below:

Quote:

Fowler earlier said he wants to be allowed to dip his finger in peyote tea and rub the finger on his son's forehead. Under cross-examination Friday by Hanslovsky's lawyer, Martin Holmes, Fowler said he wants to leave it up to his child to decide when to ingest the peyote, and how much of it to take.

"If he says next week that he feels ready to take it, then OK," Fowler said. (Source)




Or here (same article)

jssmthrfcknchrst


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Edited by JssMthrFcknChrst (04/29/03 03:08 AM)


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Offlinethestringphish
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Re: Judge Makes Ruling in Peyote Case [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst] * 1
    #1503306 - 04/29/03 05:04 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

neurological damage, or earley enlightenment?


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Judge Makes Ruling in Peyote Case [Re: JssMthrFcknChrst] * 1
    #1503676 - 04/29/03 10:23 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Heh. Funny they leave out that 1 paragraph that changes the WHOLE context of the article. Idjuts.

It seems to me that that wouldnt be prohibited by the Judge's ruling, since he said the child could not INGEST peyote, and I put soap on my body everyday, but I'm not ingesting it...Loophole?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Anonymous

Re: Judge Makes Ruling in Peyote Case [Re: motaman] * 1
    #1504596 - 04/29/03 03:33 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

it's pointless and possibly dangerous for young children to take psychedelic drugs. i support the judge's decision.


Edited by mushmaster (04/29/03 04:07 PM)


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