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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: homosexuality in the psychelic/rave/hippie communities. Is it a good idea to come out? [Re: dustinthewind13] * 1
    #14919465 - 08/14/11 06:43 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

So what do you say about people that were straight their whole life and then decide they want to be gay at like 38? Because people like that do exist.
Or let me guess... they were just confused their whole life and in the closet because of society pressures? No.
Because preferences and tastes can and do change, including sexual orientation.

I don't buy the whole "You're born that way and every gay person is born that way". Sure, maybe some are. But not all.

I had a gay friend who wasn't born that way. I know because he told me. He was straight half his life, and decided he'd rather be gay.

I mean it's fine if you want to think every gay person just has gay DNA and has no choice over the matter. Just because a "gay gene" has been identified in DNA does NOT mean that you have no choice in your sexual orientation. And just because there was an increase in media exposure of gay suicides does not conclusively determine that either. It's a theory. We don't have it all figured out, and to assume we do is ignorant. We don't really know shit about DNA or how human consciousness really works. We are only scratching the surface. Tip of the motherfucking iceberg.
I think it can go both ways. Some people may be born gay, some become gay.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with the concept, but there's a thing called FREE WILL. Everything is not just predetermined.

Although what the fuck do I know.... I'm just a straight guy.
I could not really ever force myself to be attracted to another man in 'that way'.
That's just my preference, female.

I have tons of respect for people who are themselves,
regardless of what or who they are attracted to.
If you're real, you're ok in my book.

People that lie to themselves, and try to put up a front and be someone they are not, frankly.. disgust me.

Quote:

dustinthewind13 said:
I got the impression that it was trying to say that homosexuality is completely culturally conditioned, which IMO is complete BS. I don't see how cultural conditioning could be the cause of gayness when it's much more acceptable to be straight than gay




You must have never been to West Hollywood, where it's weird to be straight.



To the OP: Who gives a fuck what people think. The people that matter and are real will respect you for the person you are and not which way you swing.
The homophobes and dumbfucks aren't worth a second of your time anyway, gay or straight.
Real friends are your friends for who you are, and don't give one fuck what your preference is behind closed doors.

Also 95% chance you'll find more open and accepting people in the rave/psychedelic/hippie communities than just about anywhere else in society.

Be who you are. You will thrive.
Do not lie to yourself or put up a charade.
You can always tell who's in the closet anyway.
Better to just be real and let people accept you for who you are. If they don't...  fuck em. They aren't even worth you stressing over.


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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Re: homosexuality in the psychelic/rave/hippie communities. Is it a good idea to come out? [Re: Shroomism]
    #14919544 - 08/14/11 07:16 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Or let me guess... they were just confused their whole life and in the closet because of society pressures? No.

What do you think the ratio of gay people in the closet because of society pressures as opposed to being in the closet without societies pressure is?

Because preferences and tastes can and do change, including sexual orientation.

I'm guessing your straight. Do you think you will ever be attracted to men? I'm not saying culture and society can't manipulate sexual orientation. Preferences and tastes are much more likely to change IMO.

I had a gay friend who wasn't born that way. I know because he told me.

Can you please ask him what happened. As I've stated previously I would love to know how our environment can make you homosexual.

We don't have it all figured out, and to assume we do is ignorant.

Did you read my post!?

I mean it's fine if you want to think every gay person just has gay DNA and has no choice over the matter. Just because a "gay gene" has been identified in DNA does NOT mean that you have no choice in your sexual orientation. We don't have it all figured out, and to assume we do is ignorant. I think it can go both ways.


I don't see how it could be culturally conditioned. Some people might never find men attractive. For me it's a choice whether or not you want to come out. I don't think a person can convince himself he is gay without initially finding men attractive. Maybe our genes only give us the potential to be gay. Some might have more potential than others. Do you think a homophobe can ever be gay? Or maybe we are all bisexual like Freud and Jung claimed and some of us are only repressing it?

So what do you say about people that were straight their whole life and then decide they want to be gay at like 38?


People are bisexual too. Maybe at first they were with a women and later realized they had more fun with a man?


Some people may be born gay, some become gay.


That is possible. What is your guess on the ratio and do you think the people who become gay suddenly also previously didn't find men attractive? I think it's possible to lie to yourself so much that you start believing your own lies. That might be the case with some people. I don't know how someone would change from straight to homosexual if he didn't find the same sex attractive, when homosexuality is looked down upon much more often.


You must have never been to West Hollywood, where it's weird to be straight.


Notice I did say completely in my quote.


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"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson


Edited by dustinthewind13 (08/14/11 07:20 AM)


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: homosexuality in the psychelic/rave/hippie communities. Is it a good idea to come out? [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #14919622 - 08/14/11 07:38 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I would have no idea the ratios of gay people in the closet just because as opposed to society pressures. I don't know what happened to my friend, I don't think it was some life-changing event or anything, I think he just kind of woke up and decided one day he would try guys, and liked it, and never went back. His family life or environment had nothing to do with it, he was born to an affluent family in a place where being gay was not socially accepted at the time. Him "turning" gay weirded some people out, but his true friends were still his true friends.

Yes I am straight, as I mentioned. And no I can never see myself being attracted to men. I can see other men as "handsome" or beautiful or whatever, but to get turned on is something else entirely.
The female form is perfect to me. Thinking about being sexual with another man honestly grosses me out.

But do I judge people for their sexual orientation? No not at all. I judge people based on their character and the type of person they are and how they treat other people. Of all the gay people I've known, I've liked most of them. Maybe that's because gay people who are openly gay, aren't afraid of being themselves, aren't afraid of what society thinks, and I respect that. And they are usually funny too and fun to be around. Gay people make great friends in my experience.

I think some homophobes may be closet gays, and are so afraid of coming out they just lie to THEMSELVES and bash what they are. Some are just stupid. Most homophobes are probably that way because of cultural conditioning. And religion.
Freud was a deeply disturbed individual and wrong about a whole lot of things.
He had daddy issues and was a cokehead and put his personal twisted view on everything, I don't put much stock in any of his theories.

I never said anything about cultural conditioning causing people to become gay. Although maybe it can, I suspect it has more to do with CHOICE than anything else. Not to say that it's a choice for everyone, some people probably have no choice over who they are attracted to. I think more people are probably BORN gay then become that way later in life, but who the hell knows?

Of all the gay people in here, have you been that way for as long as you can remember? Like do you remember being attracted to boys in kindergarten.
I think sexual identity in a lot of cases is something that you develop or grow into over time and through experience and experimentation.


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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Re: homosexuality in the psychelic/rave/hippie communities. Is it a good idea to come out? [Re: Shroomism]
    #14919644 - 08/14/11 07:46 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

But do I judge people for their sexual orientation? No not at all. I judge people based on their character and the type of person they are. Of all the gay people I've known, I've liked most of them. Maybe that's because gay people who are openly gay, aren't afraid of being themselves, aren't afraid of what society thinks, and I respect that. And they are usually funny too and fun to be around. Gay people make great friends in my experience.

I :heart: hearing these kinds of things. :thumbup:  That's why I'm trying to change and be honest. To rule out people that think this way and people that automatically switch to hate mode when they find out. Another reason why I like the Seuss quote from a previous quote.

I never said anything about cultural conditioning causing people to become gay.

I just don't see what else besides cultural conditioning and biology can make you gay and if it's both my personal belief is that it's more biological. I might be missing something though.


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"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: homosexuality in the psychelic/rave/hippie communities. Is it a good idea to come out? [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #14919678 - 08/14/11 07:58 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Choice. Free will. Experimentation. Breaking the norms. What you are attracted to changes..
I don't know... there's a million different reasons besides Biology. I'm no expert though.

People that switch into hate mode when they find out you are gay, are pieces of shit.
I don't want to be friends with those people, and I am straight.
In fact I just want to say things that will piss them off and challenge their worldview.
90% chance they are religious and easily offended, so that's a good place to start.

Jesus taught acceptance and love your neighbor. The church taught that homosexuality is a sin. God I hate the church. Jesus was cool though.


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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Re: homosexuality in the psychelic/rave/hippie communities. Is it a good idea to come out? [Re: Shroomism]
    #14919809 - 08/14/11 08:40 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

In fact I just want to say things that will piss them off and challenge their worldview.

That's what I am trying to do right now :grin:. I do believe in the things I say and post here in hopes to correct what I believe, if it is wrong. Of course I would rather be right the first time though. :cool:

Choice. Free will. Experimentation. Breaking the norms. What you are attracted to changes..

I know what you are trying to say, but I guess I am biased here. After I came out to myself I started noticing "Freudian slips" from the past. Back then I wouldn't say I was gay or bi (I just use gay because it's half or less or more than being bi and same goes for straight if you are bi). I was afraid of being gay when in puberty and grew up most of my life thinking it was a defect. I never had anything against gays, but that didn't stop me from thinking it was wrong. Funny how easily my mind can play tricks on me sometimes and how being honest with yourself can easily change that.


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinedshow
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Re: homosexuality in the psychelic/rave/hippie communities. Is it a good idea to come out? [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #14920214 - 08/14/11 11:00 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Choice. Free will. Experimentation. Breaking the norms. What you are attracted to changes..


EPIC. In a not gay way. That would grose me out.


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: homosexuality in the psychelic/rave/hippie communities. Is it a good idea to come out? [Re: Shroomism]
    #14921192 - 08/14/11 02:44 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I have quite a few gay relatives in my family. One of which is my Uncle (who I love dearly) and when he visits we speak openly about his sexuality and I have asked him and his gay friends many questions about the subject. These people are pretty involved in the gay community for sure so I would consider what they tell me a good resource for information. From what they have told me, they all feel as though they have been gay from birth or at least started having homosexual fantasies when they were old enough to be interested in sex.

For example my uncle and his friends all say they always knew, it was no surprise to them. When my uncle was a child he used to get turned on by Batman and Robin lol(the old television show not the cartoon). He loved watching the show because of Batmans muscles and Robin being his little boy toy so to speak.

He also said that out of all the gay people hes knows who had kids and/or been married felt that they were always gay and were forced into the situation by society a nd basically got to the point where they could not take it anymore and finally accepted for themselves that they were into dudes. They didnt just all of a sudden become gay , they just didnt want to believe it so they shoved it aside (repressed the urges and thoughts) until they snapped one day and wanted to be happy.

The only thing he thinks that points to environment is the fact that a fair amount of his gay friends were molested or had some negative sexual experience early on in childhood which just so happens to be the most important time when the foundations of your personality are formed as well. He does not believe you can just start turning gay later in life based on what you experience.

My opinion is it's not up to a person to be gay and if a part of it is caused by external forces through life experiences it happens very early on and on a subconscious level that the individual has no control over.


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OfflineBothHands
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Re: homosexuality in the psychelic/rave/hippie communities. Is it a good idea to come out? [Re: DeathCompany]
    #14921215 - 08/14/11 02:52 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Kissed my first girl in 1st grade.  I was a playa. :lol:

Never had a crush on a boy my whole life.  I don't imagine it's that easy to just decide to change.  I think it's more likely the people were bisexual, but only experimented with the sex they were "supposed" to, and then moved on when they got older.

'Course that's just from my own narrow perspective.  I won't discount any other perspectives.  Can only base mine on my experiences though.


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Re: homosexuality in the psychelic/rave/hippie communities. Is it a good idea to come out? [Re: BothHands]
    #14921898 - 08/14/11 05:35 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I really don't know what it's like for gays or straights, but the idea of saying to myself "pick one" (and I'd go with girls, as it's more acceptable+women listen more) just makes me have a heavy feeling in the pit of my stomach.

There's been a few times when I've had a boyfriend and girlfriend who liked each other, but things never work out in the end. Nice while it lasts.


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OfflinePsychoKinesiS
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Re: homosexuality in the psychelic/rave/hippie communities. Is it a good idea to come out? [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #14924034 - 08/15/11 01:45 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If there's even a small chance of a hate crime, I probably don't want to do it. I hate violence, and I'm already paranoid enough over nothing when I'm tripping.


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Offlinemukhail
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Re: homosexuality in the psychelic/rave/hippie communities. Is it a good idea to come out? [Re: PsychoKinesiS]
    #14945062 - 08/18/11 11:14 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

PsychoKinesiS said:
If there's even a small chance of a hate crime, I probably don't want to do it. I hate violence, and I'm already paranoid enough over nothing when I'm tripping.





Dude, you dont have to advertise that you are gay to everyone. Its not something people are gonna already know.

I hope you can find trustworthy friends who will accept you for who you are. I cant imagine that many in the rave scene are gonna care as much, though. Just avoid wearing a gay pride tshirt to a country music concert.


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Re: homosexuality in the psychelic/rave/hippie communities. Is it a good idea to come out? [Re: PsychoKinesiS]
    #14946196 - 08/19/11 07:45 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

PsychoKinesiS said:
If there's even a small chance of a hate crime, I probably don't want to do it. I hate violence, and I'm already paranoid enough over nothing when I'm tripping.




Every act of violence is a hate crime. Don't get caught in the political correctness trap. If someone hits you because you like blue over pink, then you have a full right to defend yourself.

You're living in fear over something that is really not an issue.

You want to know how my mates, who aren't even ravers found out I was bi?

"Alright VT, where are you?"

"Jolly Farmers."

"They gay pub?"

"Yeah."

"Didn't know you swung that way, alright, see you in a bit."

Dude, I like you, but your paranoid fear is holding you back, it frustrates me. Just be yourself, if they can't cope with it, they are no friends of yours


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OfflinePsychoKinesiS
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Re: homosexuality in the psychelic/rave/hippie communities. Is it a good idea to come out? [Re: PsychoKinesiS]
    #14947371 - 08/19/11 12:36 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I'm more worried about things like suprise attacks involving multiple people and weapons.


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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: homosexuality in the psychelic/rave/hippie communities. Is it a good idea to come out? [Re: PsychoKinesiS] * 1
    #14947823 - 08/19/11 02:27 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

if i'm ever accosted by a group of individuals over my sexuality i'm going to immediately threaten to gay marry all of them at once.


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I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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OfflineJoolz
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Re: homosexuality in the psychelic/rave/hippie communities. Is it a good idea to come out? [Re: PsychoKinesiS]
    #14948001 - 08/19/11 03:10 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

PsychoKinesiS said:
I'm more worried about things like suprise attacks involving multiple people and weapons.




If you are going to go through your life worrying about people attacking you from behind you are going to have a boring fucking life.

Here's a thought. Regardless of whether or not you come out and have a fun fucking time in the rave scene (seriously, most of the people I know who party hardy are the most understanding people ever. They take psychedelic drugs. Chances are they think moderately deeply and understand that people are just different from themselves. If they don't, THEN DON'T FUCKING TALK TO THEM.) Anyways, you can either have fun being yourself, or you can hide and lie and cheat and always worry about people behind you.

Sounds like a lame life. Regardless of whether or not you come out, someone can attack you with weapons at any time. And if they're attacking you with weapons then you should just accept the fact that you are going to die, because these people hate you and you can't do anything about it. What I can say is that every festival or party I've been to, even bars, whenever a fight broke out there were countless amounts of people to stop the attacker and protect the victim. I've seen some pretty big fights started by one asshole, and that asshole got his ass handed to him.

You can't go through life hiding. That's going to be a miserable life.


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Prohibition didn't work for God; Eve ate the fruit.


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Invisibledustinthewind13
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Re: homosexuality in the psychelic/rave/hippie communities. Is it a good idea to come out? [Re: PsychoKinesiS]
    #14952199 - 08/20/11 11:52 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

PsychoKinesiS said:
I'm more worried about things like suprise attacks involving multiple people and weapons.




Who are you afraid is going to attack you like that? Why does it matter if you are gay?

If people are going to attack you, they are going to attack you. Just don't be in the wrong place at the wrong time and you should be fine.


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson


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