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Cosm
Questioning
Registered: 05/07/04
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Where in the Bible does it say souls go to heaven when the body dies?
#14947963 - 08/19/11 03:00 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Could someone answer, Where in the Bible does it say we go to heaven when we die? And did early Christians believe in reincarnation of the soul? Many religions believe in reincarnation, I read somewhere many years ago that early Christians did also. Modern Christians seem to be about the only mainstream religion that does not believe this to be true.
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AndyRawrs
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Re: Where in the Bible does it say souls go to heaven when the body dies? [Re: Cosm]
#14948008 - 08/19/11 03:11 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's all up in da dogma dawgg
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giza

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
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Re: Where in the Bible does it say souls go to heaven when the body dies? [Re: AndyRawrs]
#14948101 - 08/19/11 03:33 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well going to heaven or hell could be thought of as reincarnation, it can also be taken as a belief of us being immortal as well. Karma is incorporated into Christianity also, just different wording. Good 'karma' = Heaven Bad 'karma' = Hell
Not sure where in the bible it talks about heaven though, I'm sure someone around here does.
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audiophoenix
Find Peace



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Re: Where in the Bible does it say souls go to heaven when the body dies? [Re: AndyRawrs]
#14948149 - 08/19/11 03:44 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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there are too many references to mention. As far as specifically talking about what happens when you die, the accepted scenario is that you instantly travel to the gates of heaven where you are either accepted or denied from entering heaven. if denied you will be cast to hell ect ect.
Not to many people agree on anything in the bible, mainly because it contains so many vague parables and metaphors.
here is a good tool for looking up words or phrases in the bible. Might help.
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Cosm
Questioning
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Posts: 448
Loc: somewhere
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Re: Where in the Bible does it say souls go to heaven when the body dies? [Re: audiophoenix]
#14948573 - 08/19/11 05:24 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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I just find it too hard to accept as truth, with spirits, ghost, angels and demons running around. Oh and past life memories and a memory of being between this life and the last one. All of which I have seen, witnessed, and experienced for myself. But I want to give the Bible a fair chance before I disregard some of its teachings in pursuit of truth for myself. which is what I'm doing searching for truth.
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giza

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
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Re: Where in the Bible does it say souls go to heaven when the body dies? [Re: Cosm]
#14948660 - 08/19/11 05:43 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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What I do is, I read the basic morals of different religons and I pick the ones that make sense, and create my own belief system. I don't believe you have to completely agree with every aspect of the religon, just take out of it what you believe is 'right'..
Edited by giza (08/19/11 05:59 PM)
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TeamAmerica



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Re: Where in the Bible does it say souls go to heaven when the body dies? [Re: giza]
#14948730 - 08/19/11 05:56 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
giza said: Well going to heaven or hell could be thought of as reincarnation, it can also be taken as a belief of us being immortal as well. Karma is incorporated into Christianity also, just different wording. Good 'karma' = Heaven Bad 'karma' = Hell
Not sure where in the bible it talks about heaven though, I'm sure someone around here does.
There is no such thing as "Good Karma" Or Karma points. Any of that is all Western/ pop culture...Karma is negative attachment
The kingdom of heaven (usually referred to as just THE KINGDOM in the gospel) is the place of eternal happiness. The parables don't say "You go here when you die" But rather, "You must change yourself to enter into the Kingdom"
The kingdom being a very mysterious subject in the gospel, nothing easy and 'Jesus kissin games' like modern Religion...
In Luke 8:10 in the very parable EXPLAINING the parables He says
"Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand"
Edited by TeamAmerica (08/19/11 06:00 PM)
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giza

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
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Re: Where in the Bible does it say souls go to heaven when the body dies? [Re: TeamAmerica]
#14948775 - 08/19/11 06:04 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well, if you think of karma, it is basically a system that inspires change to an individual, so that the individual is aware of what they feel is 'wrong', so then they tend to avoid. May not be true but the effect it has on you when you entertain it, is beneficial toward changing for the 'better', IMO.
Edited by giza (08/19/11 06:05 PM)
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Buckeye Oysters
From Zero to Hero



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Re: Where in the Bible does it say souls go to heaven when the body dies? [Re: giza]
#14948886 - 08/19/11 06:32 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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By early christians I believe you are referring to the Gnostic Christians that got their start around Egypt, yet I am a modern day gnostic christian. Gnostics agree that the spirit (ie soul) leaves the body when you die and if the spirit "knows" Jesus then Jesus comes to them and guides them back home to Heaven. If the spirit doesn't know Jesus then it is subjugated to the judgement of the Law. The God of Moses (yaweh) is the god of law and the True God gives yaweh authority to decide the next life you will live based on your previous actions (karma). The general agreement is that if the spirit lived a terrible evil life then they are put into a life similar to that of their victims, however, EVERYONE eventually makes it back to heaven and gets cycled into a life where they find the savior.
Although there may be some disagreement on what version of gnosticism you go along with, I believe that this is the most accurate model of what really goes on.
-------------------- Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise. Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated. For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.
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Buckeye Oysters
From Zero to Hero



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Re: Where in the Bible does it say souls go to heaven when the body dies? [Re: TeamAmerica]
#14948915 - 08/19/11 06:38 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
TeamAmerica said:
Quote:
giza said: Well going to heaven or hell could be thought of as reincarnation, it can also be taken as a belief of us being immortal as well. Karma is incorporated into Christianity also, just different wording. Good 'karma' = Heaven Bad 'karma' = Hell
Not sure where in the bible it talks about heaven though, I'm sure someone around here does.
There is no such thing as "Good Karma" Or Karma points. Any of that is all Western/ pop culture...Karma is negative attachment
The kingdom of heaven (usually referred to as just THE KINGDOM in the gospel) is the place of eternal happiness. The parables don't say "You go here when you die" But rather, "You must change yourself to enter into the Kingdom"
The kingdom being a very mysterious subject in the gospel, nothing easy and 'Jesus kissin games' like modern Religion...
In Luke 8:10 in the very parable EXPLAINING the parables He says
"Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand"
When Jesus refers to "the Kingdom of Heaven" many times he is talking about the state of being during life on earth,.. that to enter the Kingdom is to have the attitude that Jesus wants you to have. I think its in the Gospel of Thomas that Jesus says that the Kingdom is "neither here nor there, but scattered among the earth" referring to the scattered people with the heavenly attitude.
-------------------- Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise. Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated. For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.
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TeamAmerica



Registered: 12/02/08
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Re: Where in the Bible does it say souls go to heaven when the body dies? [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
#14948955 - 08/19/11 06:45 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have the Nag Hammadi scriptures if you would like an actual quote...
Edited by TeamAmerica (08/19/11 06:46 PM)
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silverkord
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Re: Where in the Bible does it say souls go to heaven when the body dies? [Re: TeamAmerica]
#14949115 - 08/19/11 07:29 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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^ Let's hear it, TeamAmerica.
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TeamAmerica



Registered: 12/02/08
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Re: Where in the Bible does it say souls go to heaven when the body dies? [Re: silverkord]
#14949255 - 08/19/11 08:02 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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From the Egyptian Gospel of Thomas with the Greek gospel of Thomas
27 "If you do no fast from the world, you will not find the kingdom."
38 "Often you have desired to hear these sayings and you have no one else from who to hear them."
54 "Blessed are the poor, for yours is heaven's kingdom"
76 "The Father's Kingdom is like a brilliant pearl. Seek his treasure that is unfailing, that is enduring, where no moth comes to devour, and no worm destroys."
81"Whoever is near me is near the Flame. Whoever is far from me is far from the Kingdom."
107 "The kingdom is like a Shepard who had a hundred sheep. One of them, the largest went astray. He left the Ninety nine and sought the one till he found it. After he had gone to this trouble, he said to the sheep, 'I love you more than the ninety nine.'"
113 His disciples said to him, 'When will the kingdom come?" "It will not come by watching for it. It will no be said, 'Look! Here it is, or there it is.' Rather the Father's Kingdom is spread out upon the earth and people do not see it."
Edited by TeamAmerica (08/19/11 08:39 PM)
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audiophoenix
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Re: Where in the Bible does it say souls go to heaven when the body dies? [Re: Cosm]
#14949387 - 08/19/11 08:29 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cosm said: I just find it too hard to accept as truth, with spirits, ghost, angels and demons running around. Oh and past life memories and a memory of being between this life and the last one. All of which I have seen, witnessed, and experienced for myself. But I want to give the Bible a fair chance before I disregard some of its teachings in pursuit of truth for myself. which is what I'm doing searching for truth.
It's a good viewpoint you have. It is really difficult to be subjective about things, especially the bible. The best thing you can do is avoid accepting opinion and reputation as fact. I can't tell you how many times I have started working at a place and on my first day I heard what people were disliked in the office, but once I got to know them myself and understood them personally it turned out they were usually just misunderstood. The same happens with all types of things. People tend to carry an opinion which has been fed to them by other people. The more you can observe those things with as subjective an eye as possible the less you will be disappointed by claims.
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Satyapriya



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Re: Where in the Bible does it say souls go to heaven when the body dies? [Re: Cosm]
#14949786 - 08/19/11 09:52 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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"And did early Christians believe in reincarnation of the soul? Many religions believe in reincarnation, I read somewhere many years ago that early Christians did also. Modern Christians seem to be about the only mainstream religion that does not believe this to be true."
I recommend that you check out the book "Jesus Lived in India," they address this question and back their theories with a lot of scientific evidence and historical data. The theory is that Jesus learned everything he knew from Buddhist and Hindu wise men, having traveled the silk route to India. Originally it is believed that Jesus taught karma and reincarnation but that the concept was omitted from the bible (as well as many other important concepts), specifically by a queen that was at one point in control of the texts in the early centuries. Apparently she was ruthless and killed many people and didn't like the idea of karma and reincarnation, and so she had it omitted.
check it out.
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