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Offlinesnoot
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Question about drug dogs
    #14931979 - 08/16/11 02:04 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Can a drug dog only sniff out your car? Or can they sniff you and/or your pockets? I've never seen them sniff people before but I'm just curious. Like say you had something illegal on you that was in a hidden spot in your shorts or something, and the cops were unable to find it, they ultimately bring a k9 unit in and sniff threw your car, but are they allowed to hit on you?


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OfflineJT
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Re: Question about drug dogs [Re: snoot]
    #14931985 - 08/16/11 02:05 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

oh yeah, they can definitely smell stuff on you. they do it at airports all the time. at traffic stops, once the cops signal the dogs to search, they will look for anything in the area.

as far as the legality behind using a drug dog signal to do an invasive search on you at a traffic stop, though, i'm not sure.

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Offlinesnoot
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Re: Question about drug dogs [Re: snoot]
    #14932036 - 08/16/11 02:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

O right on, I always figured they could I mean why not. But I've just never seen it on a person or heard of it. How do they do it, do they make you spread eagle, or do you need to lay down so he can get a good wiff?


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Question about drug dogs [Re: snoot]
    #14932366 - 08/16/11 03:32 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

snoot said:
Can a drug dog only sniff out your car? Or can they sniff you and/or your pockets? I've never seen them sniff people before but I'm just curious. Like say you had something illegal on you that was in a hidden spot in your shorts or something, and the cops were unable to find it, they ultimately bring a k9 unit in and sniff threw your car, but are they allowed to hit on you?




THe dogs can sniff you, will smell weed from outside your car, and if the dog scratches to barks to enter, that gives police full right to search your car, you aand the interior of your ass if they have to


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Invisiblethe human abstract
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Re: Question about drug dogs [Re: Patlal]
    #14932384 - 08/16/11 03:36 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Once the dog alerts the cop will search you

and he will look up your ass.


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InvisibleNWlight
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Re: Question about drug dogs [Re: the human abstract]
    #14932432 - 08/16/11 03:44 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

yes. they can and they do.

also, cops are known to be able to make the dog signal so that they have a reason to search, even if the dog doesn't actually alert.


drug dogs are so fucked up.  How they are used by law enforcement is beyond me.


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Invisiblethe human abstract
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Re: Question about drug dogs [Re: NWlight]
    #14932497 - 08/16/11 03:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I was in the park and ran into a guy and a drug dog

guy asked us if his dog could go swimming

the dog takes off right after me and my shorts.. Had a cig lit and the dog ran nose first into it and ran away

always have a cig lit in case drug dogs run up


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InvisibleNWlight
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Re: Question about drug dogs [Re: the human abstract]
    #14932802 - 08/16/11 04:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

the human abstract said:
I was in the park and ran into a guy and a drug dog

guy asked us if his dog could go swimming

the dog takes off right after me and my shorts.. Had a cig lit and the dog ran nose first into it and ran away

always have a cig lit in case drug dogs run up



what was in your pockets?


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Offlinesnoot
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Re: Question about drug dogs [Re: Patlal]
    #14939660 - 08/17/11 09:49 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

NWlight said:
yes. they can and they do.

also, cops are known to be able to make the dog signal so that they have a reason to search, even if the dog doesn't actually alert.


drug dogs are so fucked up.  How they are used by law enforcement is beyond me.




yeah I was just reading about that, how cops will if they suspect or have reason to suspect a person/car has drugs inside they can signal the dog in a way that makes him hit.

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

snoot said:
Can a drug dog only sniff out your car? Or can they sniff you and/or your pockets? I've never seen them sniff people before but I'm just curious. Like say you had something illegal on you that was in a hidden spot in your shorts or something, and the cops were unable to find it, they ultimately bring a k9 unit in and sniff threw your car, but are they allowed to hit on you?




THe dogs can sniff you, will smell weed from outside your car, and if the dog scratches to barks to enter, that gives police full right to search your car, you aand the interior of your ass if they have to




See in all my experiences with them and seeing it done, they've always taken the people out of the vehicle first, either patted them down or detained them, then the dog will walk around the car and then if it hits on something itll sit down, telling the officer that something is suspect. But I've never seen it happen where they will take the people out of the vehicle, take the dog around the vehicle and then have the dog circle the people. Thats more along the lines of what I'm asking. What is the limitations of detector dogs? Are their any?

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Quote:

Here in the Texas Panhandle the Department of Public Safety (state police) and sheriff's departments arrest a lot of people on Interstate 40 for drug possession. It is not unusual for there to be at least one or two of these arrests, usually of people just traveling through the state, every week or two. It's like the police look for out-of-state license plates and then stop and search those cars.

But how can they search those cars legally? They use drug dogs. If a drug dog "hits" on any part of a car or truck, that is considered to be "probable cause" to search that vehicle (and a search cannot be done without either probable cause or the consent of the owner). If drugs are then found, the car's passengers are arrested and charged with smuggling drugs. The case makes the newspaper and everyone is amazed at how good the drug dogs are and what a wonderful law enforcement tool they are. But is that really true?

For one thing, no one knows (except the police) how many times the drug dogs "hit" on a vehicle and nothing is found. That's because there is no arrest in those cases and therefore no newsworthy story, especially if the driver is from out-of-state and continues his/her journey. The general public (and the courts) only hear about the incidents where drugs are found, and that gives them a skewed opinion of just how good the drug dogs really are.

Researchers at the University of California - Davis decided to determine just how good the drug dogs are. They performed an experiment using 18 different teams (drug dog and police officer) and it turned out that the dogs had over 200 false "hits" on places where there were no drugs (and never had been any drugs). Here is how the experiment worked:


The researchers took 18 drug dog teams to a church, where it is likely no drugs or explosives had ever been placed in the past.  The cops were told there might be up to three target scents in any one of four rooms.  If they saw a piece of red construction paper in the room, that indicated where a target scent was placed.

The first room was left untouched.  The second room had a piece of red construction paper on a cabinet.  The third room had two sausages and two tennis balls placed as decoys.  The fourth room had the decoy scents and the red paper.  However, none of the rooms had any drugs or explosives.

There shouldn’t have been any alerts, but, in fact, handlers indicated their dog had alerted in every room.  There were more alerts in rooms with red paper (which piques the cop’s interest) and no corresponding increase in rooms with sausages and tennis balls (which would pique a dog’s interest).

In other words, at best, dogs are responding to the subtle non-verbal cues of their masters to find drugs or explosives where the human thinks there should be drugs or explosives.  The cop suspects you have pot so his body language makes the dog alert.  At worst, the cop is purposefully cuing his dog to alert when he wants a handy excuse to violate your 4th Amendment rights.


I am glad that someone finally performed a test like this. I worked in some branch of law enforcement for most of my working life, and I have believed for a long time now that these dogs are not nearly as good as is advertised by those who use them. They just make too many mistakes.

Years ago, I worked in a juvenile prison. Every few weeks we brought in a drug dog to search for hidden drugs in the institution, and many times it was my duty to accompany the officer and dog on their rounds. The dog always "hit" on several locations on each trip, but never found any drugs. The officers excuse was always that there had been drugs in the location at one time. After many of these failed excursions, I lost any faith I had in drug dogs.

Probable cause is not established just because an officer suspects something. There must be something more, and in suspected drug stops on the highway that something else is a "hit" by a drug dog. The courts have been led to believe these dogs are so accurate that they rarely make mistakes, and that is why they take a "hit" by one of these dogs to be worthy of probable cause -- thus justifying a legal search. Unfortunately, that is just not true.

Can they sometimes find drugs? Yes. But far too often they are wrong. And they are wrong enough times that they should not be used to establish probable cause. Frankly, if an officer wants to search a car he can always find a dog that will "hit" on that car. That's not real probable cause, just an excuse that can be used in court to justify the illegal search.

It is time for more research to be done, and then for the courts to stop recognizing a "hit" by a drug dog as probable cause. They simply aren't reliable enough.




http://www.bestoftheblogs.com/Home/37023

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Tribune analysis: Drug-sniffing dogs in traffic stops often wrong

January 06, 2011|By Dan Hinkel and Joe Mahr, Tribune reporters

High number of fruitless searches of Hispanics' vehicles cited as evidence of bias


Drug-sniffing dogs can give police probable cause to root through cars by the roadside, but state data show the dogs have been wrong more often than they have been right about whether vehicles contain drugs or paraphernalia.

The dogs are trained to dig or sit when they smell drugs, which triggers automobile searches. But a Tribune analysis of three years of data for suburban departments found that only 44 percent of those alerts by the dogs led to the discovery of drugs or paraphernalia.

For Hispanic drivers, the success rate was just 27 percent.

Dog-handling officers and trainers argue the canine teams' accuracy shouldn't be measured in the number of alerts that turn up drugs. They said the scent of drugs or paraphernalia can linger in a car after drugs are used or sold, and the dogs' noses are so sensitive they can pick up residue from drugs that can no longer be found in a car.

But even advocates for the use of drug-sniffing dogs agree with experts who say many dog-and-officer teams are poorly trained and prone to false alerts that lead to unjustified searches. Leading a dog around a car too many times or spending too long examining a vehicle, for example, can cause a dog to give a signal for drugs where there are none, experts said.

"If you don't train, you can't be confident in your dog," said Alex Rothacker, a trainer who works with dozens of local drug-sniffing dogs. "A lot of dogs don't train. A lot of dogs aren't good."

The dog teams are not held to any statutory standard of performance in Illinois or most other states, experts and dog handlers said, though private groups offer certification for the canines.

Civil rights advocates and Latino activists say the findings support complaints that police unfairly target Hispanic drivers for invasive and embarrassing roadside vehicle searches.

"We know that there is a level of racial profiling going on, and this is just another indicator of that," said Virginia Martinez, a Chicago-based staff attorney for the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund.

Adam Schwartz, an attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union in Illinois, said the innocent suffer from unjustified searches.

"We've seen a national outcry about being frisked and scanned at airports," Schwartz said. "The experience of having police take your car apart for an hour is far more invasive and frightening and humiliating."

Police insist no racial profiling


The Tribune obtained and analyzed data from 2007 through 2009 collected by the state Department of Transportation to study racial profiling. But the data are incomplete. IDOT doesn't offer guidance on what exactly constitutes a drug dog alert, said spokesman Guy Tridgell, and most departments reported only a handful of searches based on alerts. At least two huge agencies — the Chicago Police Department and Illinois State Police — reported none.

The Tribune asked both agencies for their data, but state police could not provide a breakdown of how often their dog alerts led to seizures, and Chicago police did not provide any data.

That leaves figures only for suburban departments. Among those whose data are included, just six departments averaged at least 10 alerts per year, with the top three being the McHenry County sheriff's department, Naperville police and Romeoville police.

Romeoville did not respond to requests for comment, but Naperville and McHenry County authorities insisted there was no racial profiling and defended the performance of their dogs and handlers.

The McHenry County's sheriff's department had the most dog alerts, finding drugs or paraphernalia in 32 percent of 103 searches. In the eight searches on Hispanic drivers, officers reported finding drugs just once.

Since September 2008, Deputy Jeremy Bruketta has handled Sage, one of the McHenry County department's two drug-sniffing German shepherds. Officers sometimes come up empty-handed in searches of vehicles that clearly once contained drugs, he said, recalling a traffic stop in which a man, reeking of pot, had a marijuana stem stuck to his shirt but no drugs were found in the car.

In Naperville, 47 percent of searches turned up drugs or paraphernalia, though searches on Hispanic drivers turned up drugs in only one of 12 traffic stops, for a rate of 8 percent.

Officer Eddie Corneliusen, who handles Kairo, one of Naperville's two police dogs, also cited drug residue and said he's "confident that (the dog) is hitting on the odor of narcotics."

Inconsistent training and standards

Experts and trainers agree that residue could be to blame for some false positives.

In a cavernous, chilly building at the abandoned former Lake County Fairgrounds, Rothacker, the trainer, demonstrated the dogs' ability to pinpoint not only drugs, but also residue.

Rothacker, who works with some 60 area police dogs and handlers at TOPS Kennels in Grayslake, rubbed a bag of marijuana against a cinder block in the wall. Two German shepherds he trained alerted on the block with little hesitation, earning sessions of play with handlers who control the dogs' beloved chew toys.

But Rothacker said false alerts can't be blamed on residue alone.

Rothacker, who trained dogs for both Naperville and McHenry County, said many trainers use suspect methods and some handlers are "very lazy" about training their dogs. After initial intensive instruction for dog and handler, Rothacker offers twice-weekly training to handlers diligent enough to keep showing up, he said.

"The dogs are only as good as the handlers," he said.

Experts said police agencies are inconsistent about the level of training they require and few states mandate training or certification. Jim Watson, secretary of the North American Police Work Dog Association, said a tiny minority of states require certification, though neither he nor other experts could say exactly how many.

A federally sponsored advisory commission has recommended a set of best practices, though they are not backed by any legal mandate.

Illinois state Rep. Jim Durkin, R- Western Springs, sponsored a bill in 2007 that would have created a certification board responsible for setting standards that all police dogs would have to meet, but the bill died in a Senate committee after passing in the House. Durkin, a former Cook County prosecutor who referred to police dogs as "probable cause with four legs," said he may push the legislation again.

"This one makes sense," he said.

State Rep. Monique Davis wants the drug-dog issue vetted by a state panel on racial profiling. Davis, D-Chicago, co-sponsored a 2004 law to collect the police data. Seven years later, she said racial profiling remains a problem.

"This is the kind of information the commission is supposed to discuss," she said.

False cues

Civil rights advocates and detector-dog experts said the lack of regulation or standards has led police to subject innocent drivers to prolonged, humiliating roadside searches.

The state's data — in which drivers and officers aren't identified — show that the average false alert led to a stop lasting nearly a half-hour. One Crystal Lake search led to a three-hour stop for a Hispanic man in 2007. He was stopped for a license plate/registration violation, according to the data.

The main check on the competency of a dog-handling officer comes in court, where a defense lawyer may question a dog's ability to sniff out drugs. But, by their nature, the stops that don't lead to drug seizures don't get reviewed by a judge.

The limited court oversight and lack of uniform standards leave vast discrepancies in the skills of dog-and-officer teams, experts agreed.

Dog handlers can accidentally cue alerts from their dogs by leading them too slowly or too many times around a vehicle, said Lawrence Myers, an Auburn University professor who studies detector dogs. Myers pointed to the "Clever Hans" phenomenon in the early 1900s, named after a horse whose owner claimed the animal could read and do math before a psychologist determined the horse was actually responding to his master's unwitting cues.

Training is the key to eliminating accidental cues and false alerts, said Paul Waggoner of Auburn's detector-dog research program.

"Is there a potential for handlers to cue these dogs to alert?" he asked. "The answer is a big, resounding yes."

That frustrates Martinez, the attorney from the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund.

Dogs do not have the human failings that have led to the targeting of minorities, but Martinez worries that an officer's bias can translate through the dog leash. She fears drug-sniffing dogs are another tool to justify roadside searches of innocent drivers, the unfair consequences of what she called "driving while Mexican."

"People of color are just targets," she said.

dhinkel@tribune.com
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01-06/news/ct-met-canine-officers-20110105_1_drug-sniffing-dogs-alex-rothacker-drug-dog


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I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
- Simone de Beauvoir -

Edited by snoot (08/17/11 09:55 PM)

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