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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Small Scale Shiitake Operation(Update October 21st)
    #14928052 - 08/15/11 09:49 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

I have messed with greenhouses before, and have had nothing but
issues as far as fruiting oysters with them. Since Shiitake tend to
be a little more C02 tolerant I figured I could get away with an
enclosed greenhouse with a cool mist on the bottom shelf. This is
the first run and right off the bat I am making improvements and
modifications to get better flush's and to be more efficient. I
spent $40-50 dollars trying to make an agar style bucket on the
cheap, and it ended up biting me in the ass. The cheap ultrasonic
mister burnt out in the first few hours I had it, and I will not be
going that route again until I have the $$ for a proper fogger. I
have a decent induced draft fan, tubing, etc so I will be trying it
again just not anytime soon.

Alterations This Week:
-I plan to add 1-2 clamp on light fixtures to the GH with 6500K
CFL's on a 12/12 timer to give my babies much needed light. At the
moment they are only get ambient room lighting and I can tell they
are craving some more direct light of the right spectrum.

-I also plan to purchase an under the bed tote to place the
greenhouse in. Right now I have a jerry rigged 115L tote with zip
ties and plastic garbage bags and its really ugly, unprofessional
and messy. With an under the bed tote I can keep moisture away from
the carpet, keep things clean, save a 1-1 1/2 feet on the height of
the GH, and perhaps even fill the bottom with slightly moistened
perlite to soak up the excess moisture the cool mist has been
putting out.

-I am going to cut a few slits in the GH to allow for passive FAE
throughout the day and night from a circulating fan placed on the
other side of the room.

Problems:
-The biggest problem I have had at this moment is figuring out the
correct timing regime. At this moment I am running the humidifier
for 15 minutes every hour for 3/4ths of the day(16 hours on, 8 hours
off). I am still getting a slight bit of standing water in the
bottom of the chamber, and will be playing with the timing to keep
the RH around 70-80% most of the time without leaving a lot of
standing water. It is a work in progress. For now I have been wiping
out the small amount of standing water after work every day.

Enough talking, here are some pictures:

KAZ Coolmist on the bottom shelf(Thanks DMonkey for hooking a
brother up). Blocks on the top shelf have been placed into fruiting
for 2 days, blocks on the shelf below have been fruiting for 3 days.
The first picture was taking when I was playing with a 30 minute on
routine, and the amount of standing water you can see is significantly
less dropping to 15 minutes on every hour.



A view of the entire greenhouse. Will be making a fair amount of
changes this week, and may be rigging up my other greenhouse with
another cool mist I have(Thanks again Dmonkey!).




Blocks colonizing away. What you see is roughly a 2 month rotation
of 6 blocks a week. I lost a few blocks due to sloppy sterile
procedure when prepping pasteurized bags, but since then the problem
has been fixed and things are going smoothly. I did not make 6 bags
last week due to many things, but will be making 8-10 this Thursday
to make up for it. Either way lots of shiitake to come.




In closing I still have a long ways to go, a lot to learn, and a lot
of mistakes to make. I try to roll with the punches and provide the
best environment for my blocks that I can afford and can maintain. This
operation may not be the prettiest, may not be the biggest, but it is
mine. Every step of the process is controlled and done by myself.


Edited by EvilMushroom666 (10/21/11 12:29 PM)


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OfflineSorealism
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Re: Small Scale Shiitake Operation [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #14928282 - 08/15/11 10:23 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Looks like a really great set up! I could only hope to one day have a similar operation, well done! What tek do you use for your bags?


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Re: Small Scale Shiitake Operation [Re: Sorealism]
    #14928347 - 08/15/11 10:34 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Lipa's Pasteurized Fuel Pellet Tek

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14258160#14258160

I have changed my routine a bit since writing that TEK. I took Tao's
advice and use an electronic kettle to bring my water to around 180-190F
before pouring into my bag of fuel pellets, mixing, tying with a string
and setting inside an insulated tote.

Be ready to experiment and play around as all fuel pellets are different,
even within the same brand from bag to bag. I usually take a few cups
from a fresh bag and test the amount of water needed to bring the mixture
to under field capacity. It is SOO easy to create your mixture with to
much water, and when your substrate is on the wet side with shiitake it
will cause pre-mature pinning.

In the future I plan to build my own steam boiler and autoclave,
same as RR made ( I have training in a related field so it will be
by the books, following local code and bi-laws etc) so I will be
able to sterilize 20 or so bags every Sunday and get higher yields
per block. Right now the time/yield ration involved in supplementing
and sterilizing my blocks just does not make sense for me to do. I
can fit 2 blocks in each of my 21L PC's, and finish 8 blocks if I
have an entire day set aside to myco work. This does not work out
with my life at this time so instead I spend 25-45 minutes creating
pasteurized bags.

Months back when I first started playing around I made 8 bags that I
supplemented with Oat Bran for two weeks in a row, and my amazingly
fun hobby turned into a nightmare really quick. Setting everything up,
creating the mixture, bagging it, loading it, pcing it, waiting for it
to cool, unloading, redoing for another 4 bags, waiting for them to
cool, unloading, cleaning up mess got old REALLY quick and cut into
my life significantly.


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Re: Small Scale Shiitake Operation [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #14929756 - 08/16/11 05:27 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Hey EM, well you've gone an set yourself up in an almost identical manner to me.  Although i'm expanding and using commercial greenhouse plastic to seal up a spacw under my deck.

Anyway, as you stated, oyster are a pain for fresh air.  I currently leave the flap rolled up and let the shrooms have ambient fresh air.  I'm in the middle of winter so 4 hours (2 am, 2pm) are providing enough humidity for them.  But i've noticed that bags to the rear of the tent are much more leggy than those at the front.  Even though the tent isn't much more than a foot deep it still makes a big difference.  Pic:  foreground: nice caps near always open front of tent, background: not so nice, near the back.  But i don't move any air mechanically, no fan in this setup (fan was too fierce and dried out my substrate)





But i don't have slats like you are planning.  Mine just sits on the concrete floor of the garage.



I keep seeing north americans use Cool Mists, and to be honest, the rest of the world doesn't really understand or have anything similar.  My humidity is a cool mist, not a steam, but it has no fan, it just has a disc like a fogger.  the brand of mine is Omei, i bought it whilst on holiday in malaysia.



I'd recommend you put this device on the top shelf.  Moisture is heavier than air and it falls, so let gravity do the work.  Otherwise your top blocksmight not get enough humidity.  If a cool mist has a fan built in then ok, it might be a different story.

In my garage i don't get enough light, so i hooked up a light rope on a timer.




--------------------


Edited by NSF (08/16/11 05:28 PM)


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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: Small Scale Shiitake Operation [Re: NSF]
    #14930313 - 08/16/11 09:47 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

The cool mist humidifier I am using does indeed have a fan in it. I am
shocked at how much humidity that little bad boy puts out in 15 minutes,
if I leave it on any longer all the blocks start to collect water on
top.

I am planning on going to the hardware store on Thursday and spending
some $$ on clamp light fixtures for some CFL's for lighting, and see
what an under the bed tote will run me. Always something to play with
as far as growing mushrooms goes;-)

I cannot wait to see some pictures, I am always interested to see other
peoples methods.


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Re: Small Scale Shiitake Operation [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #14932454 - 08/16/11 05:48 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

You can see pics now in my previous post.

I'm curious about a cool mist, is it actually producing steam through heat and then just by blowing it, it cools it down?  Or does it have a disc like a fogger? 

I went and got a single disc from a local hardware, then contacted the manufacturer and upgraded to a 3 disc fogger.  It'll move 1.5 litres of water an hour but i plan on running it at the same time as my fan for FEA, 6 cycles an hour.  So i'll be settimg up a bucket for that.

And for lights, i'd recommend the light rope, it's sealed and waterproof and doesn't give off heat.  All of those are good features in our caper.


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Re: Small Scale Shiitake Operation [Re: NSF]
    #14933077 - 08/16/11 07:58 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

I am using an impellar type cool mist humidifer, you can find out more
about it and other types of humidifiers here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humidifier

Impeller Humidifier (Cool Mist Humidifier) — A rotating disc flings water at a diffuser, which breaks the water into fine droplets that float into the air

An ultrasonic fogger is what I played with and it broke after a few
hours of use. I will be investing in a better unit in the future, but
for now this works.

Thursday I am going to buy clamp on light fixtures that will be placed
on the outside of the GH directed towards the blocks with a 6500K CFL.

I am not impressed with the first flush these blocks are putting out,
lots of tiny fruits...I am thinking the lighting is playing a role as
all my other blocks preformed better, and where under a 4 foot bank
of 6500K floro's.

Thursday I will be playing with it regardless, for the next 6 blocks
that will be going on.


Edited by EvilMushroom666 (08/16/11 11:25 PM)


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Re: Small Scale Shiitake Operation [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #14934016 - 08/16/11 11:03 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Oh yeah, clear tent means lights can be positioned outside of it, away from the humidity.


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Re: Small Scale Shiitake Operation [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #14935228 - 08/17/11 03:01 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Another great thread EM.

I love the "blocks colonizing away" photo.  Nice work

I appreciate your giving Lipa credit where credit is due.  He is a great
cultivator and an even better dude. (Did I ever tell you, he lives about
ten minutes from me.  We have even hung out a few times....he always lays
cool stuff on me, every time, too!)  I understand how so freakin' nice
it is just just dump the water and wait.  I have not lost one of these
to mold yet.

You are right about the Vicks.  I have killed about four of them in a year
and a half, swearing that I am done with them each time, but I always
come back after confirming some other new way just does not do the job that
they do.  BTW: I also find that their fans are more than strong enough
to move air all about my GH.

I have just a good quality pond fogger, in a float, in a bin of water
in my outside GH. I am thinking that the natural air movement together
with the fogger (on the top shelf this time) may do a decent job.  I am
getting Pink Oysters in the outdoor GH right now, thanks to you. ;0)
...and I may even be getting King Oyster fruits...well, I know that I am
but have yet to see how they grow out.  At midnight it is still about
70 F here.

I may well follow in your footsteps here.  We will see.

Take care,

JD


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Re: Small Scale Shiitake Operation [Re: Javadog]
    #14936114 - 08/17/11 10:12 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the comments Java!

Things for the last few days have been hectic with work and other things
that are going on with life so I have not had a chance to tweak my setup
at all. As you have said the cool mist on the bottom shelf is the easiest
to deal with...so far so good!

My last cool mist died after 2 months due to getting clogged up with
spores from growing oysters, so this model I plan to clean every week. It
has already been a workhorse in a GH for months from what I understand
and is still running strong for the time being.


Tomorrow is my day off so I am planning to purchase some lighting for
both my GH`s, I want an under the bed storage tote for the base of my
GH`s, and I am planning on adding a few slits and a circulating fan
across the room.

The first flush so far is less then impressive. It looks like from 5
blocks that I will be harvesting perhaps 2-2.5lbs...something is not
right at this point and its time to tweak. Im thinking the biggest
factor is lighting as they are just getting ambient room light from
some ceiling pot lights at this time. All my other blocks that I grew
out in SGFC`s had 6500K floro lighting for 12 hours a day and I got
much better results.


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Re: Small Scale Shiitake Operation [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #14939558 - 08/17/11 11:29 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Few more pictures from when I got off work today. First flush yields
from these 5 blocks are looking terrible...tomorrow is the day of tinkering
but I hope it has more to do with the environmental factors then say
the small amount of grain spawn added to pasteurized sawdust with no
added supplements.



Right now I have harvested exactly a lb, and my estimate of 2-2.5lbs
seems to be accurate. I have noticed the blocks that where not fully
browned but had spent 2 months since inoculation are not producing much
at all. Maybe 5-6 ounces if that. Its a learning curve every step of
the way, and just when you think you have things figured out you realize
that you in fact do not lol.

I plan to leave any blocks that are not fully browned until they are
ready and see what happens.

I have 4-5 weeks left of Shiitake 75 blocks, then it switches over to
FP strain. Once I get some more genetics into my hands I will start
experimenting with a few more strains as well. No rest for the wicked;-)


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Re: Small Scale Shiitake Operation [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #14939568 - 08/17/11 11:31 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

EvilMushroom666 said:

I have 4-5 weeks left of Shiitake 75 blocks, then it switches over to
FP strain. Once I get some more genetics into my hands I will start
experimenting with a few more strains as well. No rest for the wicked;-)




That should be an interesting comparison.
RR


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Re: Small Scale Shiitake Operation [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14939602 - 08/17/11 11:38 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Only time will tell. I know I am not "playing by the rules" so to speak
and by not supplementing my blocks to save time, I am running into other
problems.

While I have your attention you are the person who would know:

Am I correct in assuming that lighting/FAE/humidity could be the reason
for lower yields in this set of blocks? There are two factors that I
am taking into consideration. One of them being that I have yet to dial
in the proper amount of light, FAE, and humidity with using a coolmist.

The second factor I am thinking is perhaps the lowered spawn rate TO
pasteurized sawdust could be resulting in the poor flush.

Any advice or insight would be greatly appreciated RR.


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Re: Small Scale Shiitake Operation [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #14939911 - 08/18/11 12:26 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Add to that the question as to what might be causing you to have so much
weight in stems.  Those fruits are very pretty, but seem to have larger
stems that I am used to seeing.

I am guessing over-supplementation, but would like to know what
others (RR ;0) think of this.

Good luck,

JD

P.S. Just wait until you have the 40 strains to work with!


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Re: Small Scale Shiitake Operation [Re: Javadog]
    #14941041 - 08/18/11 08:07 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Javadog said:
I am guessing over-supplementation, but would like to know what
others (RR ;0) think of this.





These blocks are made with pasteurized sawdust and 200ml of grain spawn
nothing more, so I highly doubt it has anything to do with over supplementation
and more to do hopefully with lack of proper light.


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Re: Small Scale Shiitake Operation [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #14941115 - 08/18/11 08:57 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

75 tends to make larger stems than some other strains.  If it's unsupplemented, there's not much you can do regarding the stem/cap ratio.  The straw strain and A-10 both have a better stem/cap ratio than 75, so you might want to give them a try.

When John Holliday was up here last week, he suggested using no supplementation at all, with only an hour or two of steam sterilization, which would let me greatly increase the number of blocks produced.  I'll be trying that soon.  The learning curve with shiitake is pretty slow, since it really needs three to four months in the bags before fruiting. If you make lots of bags with slightly different recipes, be sure to label them well so you know what works when the time comes.

Shiitake respond well to temperature and humidity cycling.  Raise the temperature during the daylight hours, and allow the humidity to drop to 60% to 70% before bumping it back up again.  A good cold shock before stripping the bags off is also necessary.  A few days of cold shock work better than the few hours suggested in books.
RR


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Re: Small Scale Shiitake Operation [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14941148 - 08/18/11 09:12 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the advice RR.

I do agree the learning curve with shiitake is slow for many reasons.
Since some of my blocks that should be going into fruiting this week have
yet to brown up nicely I am planning on leaving them for another 3-4
weeks until they are nice and brown.

The blocks pictured had around 36 hours of cold shocking, next time around
I will shoot for 48+.

Today is my day off so I hope to get a lot done. I am off now to the
hardware store to buy some clamp light fixtures, CFL's, an under the bed
storage tote to place the GH inside of and hopefully that will take care
of some things. I also plan to add some slits in the vinyl to allow
for more FAE, and will have a circulating fan on across the room
pointing in the general direction of the GH.

I am planning on switching the humidifier cycle to 15 minutes on, 2 hours
off during the day, and 15 minutes on, three hours off during the
night. That along with 12/12 lighting provided by 6500K CFL's in close
proximity I hope will help out.

I have already harvested and sold the first pound from these blocks,
and it looks like I have at least another lb on the way. Then I will
take these blocks out to the Shiitake graveyard out back and start
the cold shock on the 2-3 blocks that are ready to go in.

The first harvest was not as large as I had hoped, but its all a work
in progress and I will keep everyone updated with my results. I will
be giving the A-10 strain a try, along with CS2 perhaps.


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Re: Small Scale Shiitake Operation [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #14941323 - 08/18/11 10:20 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

EvilMushroom666 said:
Quote:

Javadog said:
I am guessing over-supplementation, but would like to know what
others (RR ;0) think of this.





These blocks are made with pasteurized sawdust and 200ml of grain spawn
nothing more, so I highly doubt it has anything to do with over supplementation
and more to do hopefully with lack of proper light.




Well, I guess that I missed something....LOL....what an idiot..

I still think that there is too much stem weight there....but now let's
go back and see what RR says.

JD

P.S. "If it's unsupplemented, there's not much you can do regarding the stem/cap ratio."
...and there it is.  Thanks RR!


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Edited by Javadog (08/18/11 10:21 AM)


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Re: Small Scale Shiitake Operation [Re: Javadog]
    #14942986 - 08/18/11 04:49 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Just finished harvesting the rest of the fruits and the total harvest
from 5 blocks was right around 2lbs. The majority of those two lbs
came from the two blocks in the picture that had a fair amount of mushrooms
on them. The other blocks had pathetic yields due to not being browned
long enough. All those blocks where made at the same time, inoculated
at the same time, cold shocked etc etc.

I went and spent some $$ and purchased 2 clamp light fixtures, along with
2 6500K CFL`s. I also purchased a cheap 24 hour timer.

The yields where not where I wanted them to be but I still cannot really
complain. I am spending around .75-.80 cents per bag of shiitake to
produce(Sawdust, grain spawn, bag, zip tie) so even with the lower yields
due to not having everything dialed in and set I made $32 from a $4
investment ($28 profit).

I could not find an under the bed storage tote large enough to set my
greenhouse in so I am looking at basins now or perhaps building my own
and lining it with 3-4mm plastic sheeting.

I plan to wait another few weeks before fruiting anymore blocks to
give everything more time to brown.

I had a lot more planned to do today but I have been having problems
with my back so the day was shot.


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Re: Small Scale Shiitake Operation [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #14944326 - 08/18/11 10:16 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Hey EM,

I am sorry to read of the back problems.  They can really knock a person down.

You can take the time to plan your next action.

BTW: I liked the cost breakdown.  It was heartening.

JD


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms

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