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OfflineSOUTHERN
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SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5
    #14919741 - 08/14/11 08:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Ok guys i'm building me a house... i have some cat 5 ran to a 3 different rooms, and all of them come to gether in my study room.. i am wanting to hook a router up to them. my idea is that in my bedroom i have a 8 camarea dvr that can be viewed on my tv( yeah its a newer tv with ethernet cabable). what i don't understand is i have noticed that sometimes u hook the opposite ends of a cat 5 up different.. the cat 5 connectors i bought that snap in wall plates have 2 different ways to hook them up ..... lets say i am in the bedroom and i want to hook up a connector and a connector in the study( this is were the router will be located)do both the ends hook up the same or do u have to change the green and orange wires. i wasn't sure if the router took care of the information getting back into the right wire or what.. i would appreciate any ideas and if any of ya'll know a  good cheap router that uses wires like i am and offers a 1 or 2 wireless cabability .. thanks

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Invisiblefrith
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Registered: 10/27/09
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Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: SOUTHERN]
    #14920091 - 08/14/11 10:25 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You should only need to do straight through cables.

Layout:
orange
orange white
green
blue white
blue
green white
brown
brown white

You would only use crossover when you are going to like-devices (ie router to router, switch to switch, computer to computer, etc).

The wall jacks don't actually connect to anything at either end. If you needed to you would use crossover cables when connecting your device to the jack.. leave the house wiring as simple as possible.

Quote:

SOUTHERN said:
if any of ya'll know a  good cheap router that [...] offers a 1 or 2 wireless cabability



What are you talking about?



Also, if you aren't going with Gig-E throughout your house you are insane. Hell.. at this point I'd probably run my house with cable capable of 10Gig-E just to be safe.

I know in the late 90s people were spending something like an extra $30k to have their house wired with Cat-3. Shortly after that both Cat-5 and wireless came out essentially rendering their cable irrelevant.

Make sure you do your research before throwing in any old cheap cable.


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Offlineozzysmygod
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Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: frith]
    #14921749 - 08/14/11 04:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Cross-over cables are old news now, every device I have come across in recent years can accept either cable and do the cross-over itself

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: frith]
    #14924507 - 08/15/11 06:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Layout:
orange
orange white
green
blue white
blue
green white
brown
brown white




The above is T-568B.  You will sometimes, though less often, see T-568A which is:
green
green white
orange white
blue
blue white
orange
brown white
brown

For ethernet patch cables, it doesn't really matter which spec you use, as long as they are the same on both ends.  However, you can run into big trouble if you are wiring jacks to a patch panel and your jack uses one spec and your patch panel uses the other.

Historically, patch cables are used to patch between a switch/hub and a patch panel or to patch between a wall jack and an ethernet port on a device.  Cross cables are used to connect two switches/hubs together or to connect a hub to a router.  However, as pointed out above:

"Cross-over cables are old news now, every device I have come across in recent years can accept either cable and do the cross-over itself "

Using patch cables will work for 99% of the hardware out there.  It is very rare that I see something (modern) where a cross cable is required.  Regardless, if you need a cross cable, it will be to connect two switches/hubs or to connect a switch/hub to a router.  Everything else will be a patch cable.

> Hell.. at this point I'd probably run my house with cable capable of 10Gig-E just to be safe.

I agree.  I would probably run cat-6a just to be safe.  Also, if you are not using jacks, patch panels, and plugs designed for cat-6a, then you will not get the benefits of high spec cable.  Finally, there are a lot of different types of cable.  Some cable is plenum safe, other cable is not.  Some cable is solid while other is stranded. 

You will want to use solid cable for all of your wall runs.  Most jacks and patch panels are designed for solid cable, not stranded.  Wall rated cable usually has a CM/CMG printed on it.  CMP is plenum rated, which will also work, but is more expensive.  I also recommended running two runs to each location rather than one.  You will always need an extra wire in the future, so you might as well do it now.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: Seuss]
    #14924653 - 08/15/11 07:22 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

so straight through is a category and cross over is b category. and yeah that explains why I've never seen cross over anywhere but from router to router. for you to run cross over from computer to computer I believe you need 2 network cards in your pci slots, unless you only plan to connect the two computers in a house rigged network and need no internet.

believe it not I've never known anyone that runs their own cable through their house. and comcast makes no sense to me because they will only help you with cabling if it's needed to support their service, and nothing beyond with your network. but who builds houses these days without running cat 5 or cat 6 cables?? I am majorly surprised your house doesn't already have cables running through it. how do you use the phone? I'd imagine you'd just need the right routers/straight through ethernet with your network to do what you want. also if you get confused with that category a straight through and category b cross over you can buy those connectors that mark the colors for what you need. they aren't too expensive.


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: imachavel]
    #14924692 - 08/15/11 07:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

> so straight through is a category and cross over is b category.

No.  I have no idea what you are asking or implying.

Different wire specifications are called "category".  Category 3, category 5, category 5e, category 6, category 6a, etc.  Things like number of conductors, twists per inch, allowed crosstalk, etc, change from category to category.

A patch cable and a cross cable simple have different 'pinouts' of the conductors at the end.  A patch cable will be the same on both ends while a cross cable will be different on both ends.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: Seuss]
    #14924915 - 08/15/11 08:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

sorry. designation.

it's cat 5a or cat5b that define whether it's crossover or straight through right? well except with cross over it'll be one thing on one end, and different on the other end? what is the diff between cat5 and cat6 btw?

how many situations do you face where you need a crossover and Ethernet won't work? what benefit do you get from having opposite ends? i know from router to router uses crossover, I've actually seen someone crimp the cables and twist the colors differently, and saw him connect this between two routers, but I have no idea why.


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,729
Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: imachavel]
    #14925072 - 08/15/11 09:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
it's cat 5a or cat5b that define whether it's crossover or straight through right?



Nope. Cat5 doesn't necessarily say anything about connector pinout. Their different things.

Quote:

how many situations do you face where you need a crossover and Ethernet won't work?



Crossover is still Ethernet...

Quote:

i know from router to router uses crossover, I've actually seen someone crimp the cables and twist the colors differently, and saw him connect this between two routers, but I have no idea why.



As ozzysmygod pointed out, nearly all ethernet equipment is capable of auto-sensing the connection and thereby determining if crossover pinout or straight pinout should be enabled, so you'll need only straight-pinout cables in nearly all cases. Older routers used to require crossover cables, and 1:1 PC connections too, but that's pretty much history now.

The whole reason for crossover is to make the wire pair used for sending data on the one device the pair for receiving data on the other device.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: imachavel]
    #14925093 - 08/15/11 10:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

> it's cat 5a or cat5b that define whether it's crossover or straight through right?

No.

Quote:

Different wire specifications are called "category".  Category 3, category 5, category 5e, category 6, category 6a, etc.  Things like number of conductors, twists per inch, allowed crosstalk, etc, change from category to category.

A patch cable and a cross cable simple have different 'pinouts' of the conductors at the end.  A patch cable will be the same on both ends while a cross cable will be different on both ends.




> how many situations do you face where you need a crossover and Ethernet won't work?

Mostly on older hardware that does not support auto-MDIX which is very seldom.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: Seuss]
    #14925256 - 08/15/11 10:40 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

amazing. but is it still cheaper to buy older routers? I wonder why I saw this guy making cross over. switches require cross over or modern ones read pin out?

yeah, recieving and sending sounds prehistoric, like ms dos :lol:
maybe necessary sometimes, but the point of a router is to use a multi layer switch to make higher end decisions. I guess a hub or bridge would require cross over. oh well fuck that. cat5 or cat6 or whatever all should use straight through huh? hey you guys know your shit sometimes. thanks:shrug:


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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OfflineSOUTHERN
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Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: imachavel]
    #14926452 - 08/15/11 02:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i appreciate all the input guys... i already have the wires run walls sheetrocked and painted... i used cat 5... but everywhere i would ever want to add a cable or update exsisting cables, i put a 1.5 inch pipe either through the floor or throught the top plate so i could run whatever i wanted when i wanted... i'm hoping to get moved in soon so thanks for the information it will make my job a little easier.

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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,729
Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: imachavel]
    #14930017 - 08/16/11 05:54 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
yeah, recieving and sending sounds prehistoric, like ms dos :lol:



Even the most modern routers use dedicated send and receive pairs. The only difference is that old hardware often does not auto-sense which is which, while modern hardware does.

Quote:

cat5 or cat6 or whatever all should use straight through huh?



Noooooo....cat5/6 doesn't say anything about straight or cross.

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Offlineozzysmygod
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Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: SOUTHERN]
    #14930135 - 08/16/11 06:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SOUTHERN said:
everywhere i would ever want to add a cable or update exsisting cables, i put a 1.5 inch pipe either through the floor or throught the top plate so i could run whatever i wanted when i wanted




I hope you left ropes through the pipes to pull cables through in future

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: koraks]
    #14932070 - 08/16/11 02:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
yeah, recieving and sending sounds prehistoric, like ms dos :lol:



Even the most modern routers use dedicated send and receive pairs. The only difference is that old hardware often does not auto-sense which is which, while modern hardware does.

Quote:

cat5 or cat6 or whatever all should use straight through huh?



Noooooo....cat5/6 doesn't say anything about straight or cross.




ok so when you crimpt a cat 5/ cat 6 cable, the wires just aren't paired at all? I mean they shouldn't be, but they don't seel cat5/ cat6 pre paired? I'm pretty sure they do


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Invisiblefrith
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Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: imachavel] * 1
    #14933041 - 08/16/11 05:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
ok so when you crimpt a cat 5/ cat 6 cable, the wires just aren't paired at all? I mean they shouldn't be, but they don't seel cat5/ cat6 pre paired? I'm pretty sure they do



this is a really great site for learning how things work.

http://www.google.com


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: frith]
    #14935373 - 08/17/11 01:37 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

oh wow. google huh? you know, if you like google so much, why even frequent a site where people ask questions so much?? I mean you could skip the discussion and just go here:

www.google.com :wink:

(btw, I'm not the op, and I wouldn't recommend someone remodel a house and use google for answers. It's not a bad idea, but I would go for advice hands on from people who have experience remodeling a house, that's like trying to learn to drive a car and googling the questions)


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,729
Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: imachavel]
    #14935643 - 08/17/11 03:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
yeah, recieving and sending sounds prehistoric, like ms dos :lol:



Even the most modern routers use dedicated send and receive pairs. The only difference is that old hardware often does not auto-sense which is which, while modern hardware does.

Quote:

cat5 or cat6 or whatever all should use straight through huh?



Noooooo....cat5/6 doesn't say anything about straight or cross.




ok so when you crimpt a cat 5/ cat 6 cable, the wires just aren't paired at all?



No, it's always paired; cat5+cat6 are both Twisted Pair, either Shielded (STP) or Unshielded (UTP). This has nothing to do with them being crossed or not.

Quote:

I mean they shouldn't be, but they don't seel cat5/ cat6 pre paired? I'm pretty sure they do



Not sure what you mean with 'seel'.

Also, I'm not really sure if you're trolling these tech. treads. Don't take this wrong imachavel, but you manage to miss the point not once, but consistently.

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: koraks]
    #14935673 - 08/17/11 04:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I didn't know everyone in here was a tech, but I wasn't trolling, I was replying to frith.

anyway, I didn't mean to miss the point consistently, but really, who wouldn't? We are constantly speaking of things in these forums that you need a lot of visual assistance or hands on experience to master or understand. The pairs being twisted or not shouldn't matter because you can rearrange them any such way. But to clarify, I believe what you are saying in simple terms is that they are twisted together in color coordination.

white brown, brown.
white orange, orange.
white blue, blue.
white green, green.

right? this is the automatic pairing of any ethernet/cat5 cable or what not correct? you need to crimp and pair any cable accordingly, unless you buy ethernet chords or a phone chord with an rj11 jack from home depot or best buy or target or wherever, and it's already paired and clipped for you. am I getting this? I mean it's not rocket science, what is that you feel I'm missing?


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,729
Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: imachavel]
    #14935725 - 08/17/11 04:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
I didn't know everyone in here was a tech, but I wasn't trolling, I was replying to frith.

anyway, I didn't mean to miss the point consistently, but really, who wouldn't? We are constantly speaking of things in these forums that you need a lot of visual assistance or hands on experience to master or understand.



The internet has been chockfull of colorful pics of ethernet cross/normal wiring for years and years. They are there for you to find.

Quote:

The pairs being twisted or not shouldn't matter because you can rearrange them any such way.



Electrically, there is a difference. You won't achieve the throughput and reliability of the specification if you use different pairs than the ones that are physically twisted in the cable.

Quote:

But to clarify, I believe what you are saying in simple terms is that they are twisted together in color coordination.

white brown, brown.
white orange, orange.
white blue, blue.
white green, green.



That is correct. You can read why wire pairs are twisted here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twisted_pair

Quote:

right? this is the automatic pairing of any ethernet/cat5 cable or what not correct?



Depends on what you call 'automatic'. But yeah, the wire pairs are twisted inside the ethernet cable as outlined above. If you take a piece of cat5 cable and remove the outer shell, you'll see what I mean. You can also search for pics on google.

This is a bit of shielded, twisted pair ethernet cable.

Quote:

you need to crimp and pair any cable accordingly, unless you buy ethernet chords or a phone chord with an rj11 jack from home depot or best buy or target or wherever, and it's already paired and clipped for you. am I getting this?



Yes.

Quote:

I mean it's not rocket science, what is that you feel I'm missing?



You sometimes seem to be mixing up all the different concepts - wires, pairs, crossed, pinout. They all mean different things, and therefore, if you want to communicate about this stuff effectively, you need to be very accurate. I think that's where the communication between us suffers.

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: koraks]
    #14936063 - 08/17/11 07:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I guess it's hard to be accurate. pictures are much better. I'll stick with links from now on. And yes it does seem like I'm mixing up the concepts. I type fast and sometimes get impatient and skip over things. as long as the op figured out what he needed to, then no big deal. I'm guessing with all the discussion going on in this thread, it'd be hard for what he asked about to not be clarified :shrug:

sometimes being confused leads to better answers huh? :wink:


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: imachavel]
    #14936094 - 08/17/11 08:05 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

> sometimes being confused leads to better answers huh? :wink:

I think the (our) frustration comes about because we take the time to explain something, yet you "get impatient and skip over" the things we took the time to explain.  You then repeat the same mistake that led to our initial explanation.  Most of us don't mind explaining something to people that want to learn, but we find it very disrespectful when we take time to teach, yet what we are teaching is ignored.  I suspect the "troll" comment earlier came about for this very reason.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: Seuss]
    #14936141 - 08/17/11 08:27 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I didn't "troll" anybody. he made a basic statement:

"here, use this if you want to learn so bad:

google"

why don't you be an honest moderator and try not to skip over 2 things since you want to be fair 1) this post isn't about me, I didn't make the original post, I asked a completely different question about a registry editor earlier in the week, and only got one sarcastic reply, why didn't you use moderative judgement in that thread?

2) I never asked frith anything, where did he jump in with his "frusterations" towards me in this thread. I don't remember being part of the discussion, I asked a question towards someone else, and then he gave me the sarcastic google comment. people had no problem giving the original poster TONS of advice. when I stepped in asking questions about sending and receiving end points with cross over, I was basically hijacking the thread. Not on purpose, but at best this is what I did. Original poster had no need for crossover cable, as he is setting up a dvr to his computer via a router, as I'm guessing from the statement of his post. if you really feel as though I'm wasting peoples time, you could always pm me and ask me to stop posting in the thread. I'd hate to tread on the moderators here, I saw someone get a warning for disagreeing with a moderators political questions in a thread I made in political discussions. it's almost ridiculous.

if someone wants to learn about straight through or cross over, maybe it'd be best for them to go to home depot or office depot or best buy. any advice you get online doesn't come with a warranty, so buy the cables you want at your own risk. I think the best advice given to the original poster was to stick with straight end to end pairing in this format TIA/EIA-568-A.1-2001 T568A Wiring with cat5 or cat6. I never claimed to be an expert, I was just trying to clarify a few answers. I'd sure hate to be building a floor with a ruler and saw and get people this frustrated asking questions. that is much simpler and I'd always have much much more questions, considering that one quarter inch difference can mess up the entire floor.

truthfully, I know my posts are not that burdensome, considering that I always get this type of feedback in other peoples posts when replying to someone else. Most of the time in threads I start, when people don't like my thread they just skip over it entirely. case in point I just made two threads, one about a 4 gb storage nvidia graphics card, and another about a registry editor. I don't know the threads were "burdensome", but it seems as though they are easy enough to skip over. I don't feel I've done anything wrong.

I'd rather ask questions then give constant advice online to someone about resoldering a gpu or cpu in an xbox 360, skipping the reflowing of the main board, and then getting mad when people call me out on my bad advice. I never told someone to directly mount a motherboard to the tower without mounters. I never told someone to delete data, or not back up data. I don't believe anyone on here has lost files or fried their computer because of me. I'm sure there are much worst posters. :shrug:


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: imachavel]
    #14936204 - 08/17/11 08:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

> I didn't "troll" anybody. he made a basic statement:

You completely missed the point of what I wrote.


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Invisiblefrith
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Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: Seuss]
    #14938758 - 08/17/11 06:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Also, I'm not really sure if you're trolling these tech. treads. Don't take this wrong imachavel, but you manage to miss the point not once, but consistently.



Quote:

Seuss said:
> sometimes being confused leads to better answers huh? :wink:

I think the (our) frustration comes about because we take the time to explain something, yet you "get impatient and skip over" the things we took the time to explain.  You then repeat the same mistake that led to our initial explanation.  Most of us don't mind explaining something to people that want to learn, but we find it very disrespectful when we take time to teach, yet what we are teaching is ignored.  I suspect the "troll" comment earlier came about for this very reason.



i think these posts pretty much sum up what i was saying/thinking.

i honestly cant tell if you are trolling or not. the other people who post on this board explain stuff and you somehow miss the point and begin rambling so much that i genuinely have no idea what you are talking about.. its pretty much every post too.

it is very difficult to teach something when you assume things and dont do any of your own research. take whatever is posted here and use that as a starting point for what to read up on. if i dont know something then google is the first place i go 99.9999% of the time.

i wasnt trying to be a dick.. i was being honest. you need to take in what people say and then read on your own to actually understand something/anything.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: SETTING UP HOME NETWORKING WITH CAT 5 [Re: Seuss]
    #14938764 - 08/17/11 06:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> I didn't "troll" anybody. he made a basic statement:

You completely missed the point of what I wrote.




Man... He just proved your point to the letter.  It doesnt get more ironic than that.

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