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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: Freedom]
    #14916817 - 08/13/11 05:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

the irony is that the matrix was largely based off of a 90's comic series titled "the invisibles", which drew largely off of a myriad of philosophical and religious concepts (i.e. gnosticism - which generally posits that the material world is an illusion cast over us by the demiurge in order to fool us into forgetting our true spiritual nature). the washowski brothers even admitted to having issues of it on set while filming certain scenes. "invisibles" creator grant morrison has repeatedly stated that he is flattered by their plagiarism, as his intent behind the series was to reintroduce these ideas into pop culture.

if you haven't read "the invisibles", read it. disinformation also published a guide that is helpful if you aren't familiar with some of the concepts grant alludes to. it can be pretty dense but overall it's a series that's worth owning and having on your shelf.

pm me if you would care for scans the entire run and the guide, and buy it immediately after reading it if you like it. to me "the invisibles" is one of those series i can go back to and read over and over again, catching new little nuances here and there each time.


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I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

Edited by millzy (08/13/11 05:00 PM)

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: Freedom]
    #14917017 - 08/13/11 05:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:


Well, since you are making open-ended pronouncements about referencing 'silly,' 'crappy' posts on The Matrix, and since I have on numerous occasions been one of those individuals who has made such references, you were taking an aggressive stance toward ME.




How does that follow?  a) I did not categorize posts refrencing the Matrix as poor per se, or even mostly poor, b) the criticisms were regarding the posts.  Even if you were amongst those who made such posts, my post still said nothingn about your person

As such, how do you justify your claim that I was aggressive towards you?  How do you justify the comments you make about me, which have been challenged and not defended.

Quote:

I did not think that you could appreciate the wealth of ideas that the Wachowski brothers put into this trilogy, which like lots of things in life, from Brussels sprouts to cognac, takes time to appreciate.




Again you offer negative personal commentary.  Again you provide no argument for either its relevance or its accuracy.  What this excerpt and the majority of your post has to do with anything is unclear given I said nothing about the Matrix at all beyond a remark about its world "not making sense".

Quote:

If other posters who intuit the profundity I have, but who have been unable to write a more eloquent or more comprehending post, why do you think you are in a position to make blanket statements about the vapidity of their posts? If you can't take criticism, don't dish it out. If you dish it out, do so selectively, then be ready for rebuttal.




You have not established that I did 'dish it out': I spoke of posts, you spoke about me and my qualities.

The majority of your argument is attacking a straw man that I don't appreciate the Matrix, its themes, whatever; the rest a nasty personal attack.  You've still not justified the claims of either, speaking instead about the Matrix itself for some unexplained reason.

Quote:

Freedom said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
garbage?






If you are modestly well read (or even just modestly rational and well thought), and you expect most posts on a philosophy sub-forum of a drug website to be informative or carry any insight to you, then your expectations are unreasonable.





Perhaps, though one of the reasons I like this place is that this prejudice I had has been challenged time and time again by the intelligent and accomplished posters here.  In any case, the posts I mention seem particularly silly even by the forum's own standing, I think.

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OfflineHippieChick8
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Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: johnm214]
    #14917700 - 08/13/11 08:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

In any case, the posts I mention seem particularly silly even by the forum's own standing, I think.




I don't think posts with references to The Matrix are particularly silly.  There have been threads about how one should arrange toliet paper or how cool it would be if we were all robots. :tongue:  Why does discussion of the possibility of an alternate reality bother you so much?

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Offline4896744
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Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14917733 - 08/13/11 09:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Why does discussion of the possibility of an alternate reality bother you so much?





We all have our reasons for disagreement which can be viewed as feeling "bothered", just as you were bothered by his own posts which warranted a reaction from you.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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OfflineHippieChick8
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Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: 4896744]
    #14917807 - 08/13/11 09:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Still, I am curious to know why he is bothered.  When I'm bothered by something, I tell of the reason why.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14917835 - 08/13/11 09:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

HippieChick8 said:
Quote:

In any case, the posts I mention seem particularly silly even by the forum's own standing, I think.



  Why does discussion of the possibility of an alternate reality bother you so much?





I don't agree with the premise of that question, hence I can't answer.  What makes you conclude the "possibility of an alternate reality bother"s me?

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OfflineHippieChick8
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Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: johnm214]
    #14918024 - 08/13/11 10:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I find myself, more and more, noticing and almost cringing when I see references to the Matrix movie.  This movie presents a situations in which the world exists separate from the reality experienced by people and that the later is an elaborate hoax.





This statement is what made me think you might be bothered by the possibility of an alternate reality.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14918048 - 08/13/11 10:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Are you an under or over toilet paper person? That is what is truly relevant.


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OfflineHippieChick8
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Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14918157 - 08/13/11 10:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Either way is ok, but I just checked it and it's under.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: HippieChick8] * 1
    #14918236 - 08/13/11 11:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

That is so, so wrong! :nonono:


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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14918282 - 08/13/11 11:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

yeah, i'm an over sort of person myself.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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Offlinedeff
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Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: millzy]
    #14918305 - 08/13/11 11:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i like under, as it displays both the roll and the hanging part whereas over is all hanging part if you know what i mean - i guess its just an aesthetic thing for me :laugh:

that said, i prefer to use kleenex - its much nicer to just pull it out than having to rip toilet paper, i'm lazy (and cool) like that


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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: deff]
    #14918326 - 08/13/11 11:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i wish they made flushable baby wipes. i want my asshole to sparkle when i'm done wiping.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: deff]
    #14918349 - 08/13/11 11:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

i prefer to use kleenex




Matrix -> Kleenex -> Matrix

And once again the circle is complete.


--------------------

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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14918481 - 08/14/11 12:09 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

there is no spoon.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: millzy]
    #14918500 - 08/14/11 12:14 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

That goes without saying.

Just sayin'... :shrug:


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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

Registered: 09/04/10
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Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14918637 - 08/14/11 12:56 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
Well, my whole point was that the ideas weren't novel and yet the movie is constantly refrenced in rather silly discussions/threads to the exclusion of other refrences exploring the same idea, so I'm not sure why you've concluded that I don't see the commonality of the theme with other works/ideas when that was the whole point.

Further, your premise that I don't understand *something* wasn't explained nor substantiated at all, so it's unclear how you get that from my post (or wherever it came from). 

Constant refrences to "the matrix" (the concept of the fabricated reality) accompany silly poorly thought out posts on all manner of topics as touched on in the original post, and they're usually crap from what I've seen- probably because those who'd refrence the movie as if it were the definitive exposition on these concepts haven't put any thought into it nor considered others' thoughts and hence produce pretty vapid discussions of their thesis.  (or, in a more arrogant-sounding way: they're just simpletons grasping at mass media for petty insights)

In any case, your post seemed pretty pointlessly aggressive: what's the basis for all those conclusions as to my nature?




Well, since you are making open-ended pronouncements about referencing 'silly,' 'crappy' posts on The Matrix, and since I have on numerous occasions been one of those individuals who has made such references, you were taking an aggressive stance toward ME. "Crap," "garbage," and "vapid" do not describe my posts, so, as the expression goes, 'you can't be talking about me.' Nevertheless, it was YOU that assumed a ranting stance in the first place. At worst, I'm taking a defensive stance toward the quality of my thoughts.
I did not think that you could appreciate the wealth of ideas that the Wachowski brothers put into this trilogy, which like lots of things in life, from Brussels sprouts to cognac, takes time to appreciate.

The Matrix utilized not only Buddhist and Gnostic apprehensions about matter-mind, space-time, and then cast those concepts in a starkly materialistic, futuristic, and hellish idiom, which, IMO was brilliant. The Architect is a William Blakian parallel to his demiurgic, Gnostic creator. The Architect and the Oracle parallel one set of the 30 Gnostic Syzygies in Gnostic mythologies, wherein one of the Archons (according to the Gnostic Basilides) goes rogue, just like Agent Smith. Buddhism is present in the spoon-bending savant, Hindu thought with Sati and her family. "Temet Nosce"  (the Latin translation of my sig - "Gnothi Sauton" ) adopted by Socrates from the Oracle at Delphi, was a sign which hung in the Oracle's kitchen. So, more philosophy and even myth was enjoined in the film. That "Zion" was a subterranean 'cave,' like the myth of Plato's cave, and yet, 'another level of control,' opens up further speculations on the free-will/determinism continuum, regarding the AI of the so-called remnant humans (or what remained of human consciousness held in an electronic matrix), and of the Architect's AI. Good and evil flow from this dichotomy.

I could pontificate at great length, but the artistic form into which the Wachowski's cast these timeless, archetypal themes was ingenius. If other posters who intuit the profundity I have, but who have been unable to write a more eloquent or more comprehending post, why do you think you are in a position to make blanket statements about the vapidity of their posts? If you can't take criticism, don't dish it out. If you dish it out, do so selectively, then be ready for rebuttal.




who says pontificate? lol


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: blingbling]
    #14918664 - 08/14/11 01:01 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You're a pontificate! :crankey:

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Offlineblingbling
what you chicken stew?

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Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: johnm214]
    #14918676 - 08/14/11 01:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

why you tryin ta read... you some kinda fag  :braindamage:


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.

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Invisiblemillzy
Male

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Posts: 12,417
Re: Matrix (movie) Refrences in philosophical/political discussion [Re: blingbling]
    #14918783 - 08/14/11 01:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

bitches don't know about my invisibles.



--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger

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