Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]
OfflineNoteworthy
Sophyphile
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 11 years, 30 days
Re: is the self real? [Re: g00ru]
    #14893162 - 08/08/11 10:15 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

bhuddism does not in any way dissolve teh self - it is full of reference to people, the author. It talks about people's actions and karma. many buddhists have a reincarnation system. None of this makes any sense unless there are selves.

But yes there is a sense in which our personal 'self' is secondary to a greater unpercieved collective 'self'. But in that case, doesnt the self still exist? just more than we thought...


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleteknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: is the self real? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #14894661 - 08/09/11 07:23 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Noteworthy said:
bhuddism does not in any way dissolve teh self - it is full of reference to people, the author. It talks about people's actions and karma. many buddhists have a reincarnation system. None of this makes any sense unless there are selves.

But yes there is a sense in which our personal 'self' is secondary to a greater unpercieved collective 'self'. But in that case, doesnt the self still exist? just more than we thought...




This actually depends highly on the sect. If you are talking about the Mahayana then what you say is relevant. Zen and Theravada is a different story.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNoteworthy
Sophyphile
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 11 years, 30 days
Re: is the self real? [Re: teknix]
    #14894872 - 08/09/11 08:17 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I think you will have to explain what you mean. The self is a fundamental aspect of language, action, thought, etc. They say there is no self but they dont really mean it. IF there is no self, it would not make sense to talk about actions or thoughts or feelings


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: is the self real? [Re: Noteworthy]
    #14894895 - 08/09/11 08:25 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

This is what I've always thought. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecircastes
Big Questions Small Head
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 8,781
Loc: straya Flag
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: is the self real? [Re: Icelander]
    #14895361 - 08/09/11 10:27 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Lots of ideas which seem correct to me in this thread, but I can't be the only one that sees this as a big language game right?

Of course if we twist our language around a little, we may bare new thoughts in our minds.

But what is it you want from having a self? What does it qualify you for? Nothing really. What is the function of being somebody? The present moment and the consciousness hold what you're seeking. When you find that love vibration, what more is there to gain? You seem to lose alertness which seems to be strongly correlated with there being a self. A self is a functionary thing. If you function, you have self, but while you're functioning you are not in the heart of God. You are not in the love vibration.

I think the idea is to die into love.

Still get up and eat breakfast, by all means. Work your job, go on that holiday, but always be present and find the best vacation is vacation from self. The most rewarding job is cleansing the sangsaric consciousness. The heartiest breakfast is positivity.

I think what we want to avoid here is FINALITY. We don't want to be all, "there is no self, the end" and we don't want to just sit there and so evidently be a self because the more important that self, the more fearful, the less effective you are as a being.

I'm pretty sure whatever we are, it's not what we think it is, or it can't be thought of.

But why think at all?

Or maybe think anew. Instead of asking, "Am I here?" try asking "Does it matter?"

Try to create chaos within yourself. The patterns will break up and you will have to default to your natural state, the nirvanic state. The love vibration. When you get there, see if these questions and concepts are even remotely interesting.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: is the self real? [Re: circastes]
    #14895393 - 08/09/11 10:35 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:

I think the idea is to die into love.






:thumbup:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedeff
just love everyone
 User Gallery


Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,411
Loc: clarity Flag
Last seen: 2 hours, 55 minutes
Re: is the self real? [Re: circastes]
    #14895405 - 08/09/11 10:38 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

it most certainly is a language game

self is just a word and not one related to something that's verified with direct experience imo (instead requires abstractions and inference) - so depending on how one defines it and everything, we can have numerous different arguments for or against

i side with the no self idea, based on the way i understand the term self, and this works well for me :sun:


--------------------



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
Re: is the self real? [Re: deff]
    #14895510 - 08/09/11 11:01 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:i side with the no self idea...and this works well for me




:shrug:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedeff
just love everyone
 User Gallery


Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,411
Loc: clarity Flag
Last seen: 2 hours, 55 minutes
Re: is the self real? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #14895526 - 08/09/11 11:06 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

everything is a figure of speech, no more :tongue:


--------------------



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: is the self real? [Re: circastes]
    #14895645 - 08/09/11 11:36 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

When you find that love vibration, what more is there to gain?

All sounds good, what you say, but I'm guessing very few can experience it easily. 

As to your statement above the " what more to gain" is survival to reproduction of the animal body. If one stayed in a continual state of love vibration in the wild they would soon fall prey to predators. And if every one hung in that state of love then civilization would fail back into that wild state. 

Now maybe for me an you we can still see the benefit cause we are not totally afraid these consequences.  But most, in the throws of instinct for surviving and reproducing will not.

This is why I advocate a middle path of seeking pleasure rather that total bliss.  Pleasure is easier to accomplish with some psychological work and may easily lead, as it has me to some extent in the direction you are pointing at.  But very few can go from starvation (real or metaphorical) to reaching for love in one step.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: is the self real? [Re: Icelander]
    #14896792 - 08/09/11 03:04 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
If one stayed in a continual state of love vibration in the wild they would soon fall prey to predators. And if every one hung in that state of love then civilization would fail back into that wild state. 





If everyone hung out in that state of love i don't think any of us can come close to predicting what life would be like, it hasn't happened that we've seen so we can't know what the world/creation would be like.

Quote:

This is why I advocate a middle path of seeking pleasure rather that total bliss




I think its good to go for 'totalness' if you felt that nothing else but totalness could bring you pleasure :wink:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: is the self real? [Re: Chronic7]
    #14896827 - 08/09/11 03:10 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Well having been in a bliss/love state myself I can tell you I wasn't interested in looking out for possible physical danger and the idea of working at a job was also far from my mind. Actually eating seemed pretty unimportant too.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeanfu
Jesus Christ Tacos

Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 2,131
Loc: Brazil Flag
Last seen: 11 years, 11 days
Re: is the self real? [Re: Icelander]
    #14896887 - 08/09/11 03:21 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Well having been in a bliss/love state myself I can tell you I wasn't interested in looking out for possible physical danger and the idea of working at a job was also far from my mind. Actually eating seemed pretty unimportant too.




kind of a paradox of nirvana


--------------------
I am a chronic liar.

:etjesus: :whacker: :coleman: :awewtf:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: is the self real? [Re: Icelander]
    #14896913 - 08/09/11 03:27 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe when you experienced it it felt like an altered state, theoretically if you realized it to be the base state of your existence then surely it would become a more settled consistent experience?

I feel that a human body has a lot of inbuilt survival instincts that can take care of everything just fine


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinecircastes
Big Questions Small Head
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 8,781
Loc: straya Flag
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: is the self real? [Re: Icelander]
    #14897164 - 08/09/11 04:24 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
When you find that love vibration, what more is there to gain?

All sounds good, what you say, but I'm guessing very few can experience it easily. 

As to your statement above the " what more to gain" is survival to reproduction of the animal body. If one stayed in a continual state of love vibration in the wild they would soon fall prey to predators. And if every one hung in that state of love then civilization would fail back into that wild state. 

Now maybe for me an you we can still see the benefit cause we are not totally afraid these consequences.  But most, in the throws of instinct for surviving and reproducing will not.

This is why I advocate a middle path of seeking pleasure rather that total bliss.  Pleasure is easier to accomplish with some psychological work and may easily lead, as it has me to some extent in the direction you are pointing at.  But very few can go from starvation (real or metaphorical) to reaching for love in one step.




It confuses me that people can't experience love without a lover or without drugs. In life I think only of individuals. I think it's all in our hands and there really is no community or society worth being a part of, and if there is, the individual would be still be more important. At the end of the day, the individual is it. So I figure, can't we all just individually get our shit sorted and experience this?

Yeah in the wild it's a bit different. But there are different states of love, aliveness or ecstasy. In some of them, I talk clearer, think faster and I'm more confident. In the deeper ones, yes I begin to lose awareness of the surrounding environment and definitely care less for the hunger or future.

Certainly I better point out that this love I'm talking about doesn't require other people cooperate with you or anything is on your side or that there's harmony. It comes of itself. It is not a weak reprieve from the conditions of nature, instead it is an undefinable kind of higher inner functioning that changes the perceptions of the organism such that it sees the beauty and intricacy in the world.

Of course I have no idea why it's happening but it seems to be some kind of hard-to-define game. Not the usual sort of game, but it is THE game, the only game there is, thus it is worthy of a kind of awe and respect despite being purposeless.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: is the self real? [Re: circastes]
    #14897239 - 08/09/11 04:49 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

you could be right, I can't say the same thing hasn't crossed my mind many many times.  I'm workin it from my end trying to find out.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 21 days
Re: is the self real? [Re: blingbling] * 1
    #14898886 - 08/09/11 11:01 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Compared to Eternity, even a mountain of granite is as ephemeral as a cloud. So, answer your own question, and you will have grown. 'Real' is relative to Ultimate Reality. Everything in creation should be considered to be little more than a dream image in the mind of God, a virtual reality.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* spiritual intensity , secret of herb banquet 500 2 03/05/18 02:52 AM
by banquet
* Mayan Galactic Signature DB.....
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
vampirism 39,234 113 04/21/05 04:06 AM
by emptywisdom
* Alien/Human Relations v2.0
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Anonymous 23,684 65 12/23/22 02:19 AM
by doolhoofd
* The Snakes are inside me...
( 1 2 3 all )
Adamist 13,266 44 02/05/21 10:58 PM
by makalis
* Heaven is coming to earth *the sequel*
( 1 2 3 4 ... 51 52 )
zorbman 178,040 1,020 03/15/18 06:53 PM
by BrendanFlock
* Asante's EGO DEATH RUN
( 1 2 all )
Asante 2,889 31 03/05/18 05:20 AM
by Asante
* The 4th Density
( 1 2 3 all )
ShroomismM 16,379 49 10/19/08 12:07 PM
by ariark
* Dream Thread
( 1 2 3 4 ... 12 13 all )
ShroomismM 49,345 246 11/08/07 05:30 PM
by gbeatle

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, Shroomism, Rose, Kickle, yogabunny, DividedQuantum
1,690 topic views. 0 members, 11 guests and 3 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.033 seconds spending 0.012 seconds on 15 queries.