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OfflineUnknown
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
    #1489851 - 04/24/03 03:28 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ah, you are too quick to judge. Swim has used this method several times with 80+ (even 100+!) gram DRY yields first flush (yes, imagine that). You can check out my grow log if you want. Also, Swim's friends have used this method with the same success (Using Miracle Grow for Vegatables!), and produced 80+ gram first flush yields.
Don't knock it till ya tried it


Okay,Miracle Grow will NEVER be equal to dried and leeched manure straight from the field,I have tried it,so therefor I will "knock it" all to hell,Miracle grow is nothing close to manure

Quote:

8) One cubensis strain is more potent than another


This is a qoute from Teonan:

"Potency varies from mushroom to mushroom within a single flush from a single strain of a single Race that has a range of potency.

Race to race ( GT to EQ) there will be variability as well. "





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The above is just like,my opinion man


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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Anonymous]
    #1490141 - 04/24/03 04:46 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Perhaps the difference is not the strain, but the supplier of the spores. If, as most people here are saying, we are to believe that selecting the best mushroom from your batch will propagate better genes, and genes are also responsible for potency then we can assume that potencey is also a result of selection. If the "selector" is not selecting the most potent mushrooms from his flush (this would be hard to do) then the most potency potential will also not get propagated.
Why does it even matter which mushroom you pick anyway? If you started from an agar wedge the mycelial cells should be all genetically identical. I think if you are starting from a syringe this may be a problem only because you will get alot of different genotypes flushing in your cake/casing. So the logic is that you pick the best mushroom because it is the best genotype, but if you use an agar wedge from already very rhizomorphic plates, then why would it matter. Is there some recombination going on somewhere between the agar wedge and spore production that I don't know about?


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OfflineBob_J
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: PooPs]
    #1490483 - 04/24/03 06:23 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

afoaf gets 8g dry per cake. in fact it may very well be at the 9-10 dry gram range now. he also keeps them in a closet and brings them out everyday (sometimes he forgets and its every 2 days) for light. there exposed for varying times....sometimes for hours (5-6), or even a couple hours, but sometimes its just to pick them (few minutes). he fans them whenever he brings them out. he is by no means a pro. the strain is EQ.


--------------------

"With insomnia your never really asleep, and your never really awake"


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #1490555 - 04/24/03 06:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

If you started from an agar wedge the mycelial cells should be all genetically identical


i don't think so, from what i've read - you need a clone from a fruit for that i think (not from experience, though, so i may be wrong!)


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buh


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: shirley knott]
    #1490731 - 04/24/03 07:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

depends on the the wedge was cultured. If via spores then no, although it can be sectored until an isolate is obtained. if the wedge is cultured with a fruitbody then yes, you can count on genetics identical to the fruit used to start the plate.


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OfflineMike Elium
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Registered: 02/04/03
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
    #1490804 - 04/24/03 08:03 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Maybe you should rename this thread the

"10 MOST CONTROVERSIAL MYCOLOGY TOPICS COUNTDOWN"

or alternatively,

"10 MYCOLOGY TOPICS THAT WILL REALLY GET SHROOMERITES CRANKED UP"

but actually it IS quite interesting to see opinions on these oft-debated topics.....


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your inside is out, and your outside is in.


Edited by Mike Elium (04/24/03 08:11 PM)


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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: debianlinux]
    #1491221 - 04/24/03 10:33 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I was talking about after you get the isolate. Assuming your wedge is genetically identical, which I am assuming will happen after many agar transfers, your grain jar should be genetically uniform, shouldn't it?


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Offlinefleshofgods
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: PooPs]
    #1491225 - 04/24/03 10:34 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

the AVERAGE person is only going to grow, what? Maximum 4 dried grams per cake.




lol

Quote:

2) THE PFTEK is the best method for newbies. This is the one that aggravates me the most. The pftek was developed several years ago as a way to significantly reduce contamination rates (ie. the verm barrier was developed). Yet, this method provides very little yields....




that doesnt explain why it isnt the best method for newbies.



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Holler!


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Offlinejakeholman
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: fleshofgods]
    #1491582 - 04/25/03 12:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Did you ever have a casing with clear sides and have fruits grow on the bottom or sides due to light getting in. Light also makes them grow bigger and healthier. They will grow towards the light, they obviously dont hate it.

this is for spacay way back when---there have been growers with graphs showing their grow rates compared to lighting times, and the grow rate with light overtop of the terrarium were significantly and consistently lower than without light.  light is needed only for primorida foundation.
Jake H
P.S.-definetely a good thread for controversial issues :wink:


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The above statement is fictitious and for entertainment purposes only. I do not use or condone the use of illegal substances, nor do I use or condone the use of legal substances in an illegal manner.


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OfflineB4rK0d3
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: jakeholman]
    #1492073 - 04/25/03 04:58 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Pertaining to mushroom species not being any more/less potent than the other:

I disagree - http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info4.shtml


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: cheesenoonions]
    #1492148 - 04/25/03 07:14 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I was talking about after you get the isolate. Assuming your wedge is genetically identical, which I am assuming will happen after many agar transfers, your grain jar should be genetically uniform, shouldn't it?



yes. in a multispore there are many genetic attributes available. when nutrients are given they basically race and start ousting one another. on agar this becomes apparent in sectoring. sectoring is visible lines dividing the different "strains". isolating involves removing specific sectors and starting new agar plates with the sector. you continue to do this until it no longer sectors. this is an isolate. another way to isolate is to take a piece of a fruitbody and use that to start an agar plate. this, by default, will not sector. if you inocculate a grain jar with an agar isolate then that jar will mainatain the genetics of the "strain" on the agar. the fruits will be identical (as far as fruiting requirements, flush patterns go) .


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Offlinefleshofgods
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: debianlinux]
    #1492226 - 04/25/03 08:21 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Pertaining to mushroom species not being any more/less potent than the other:
I disagree - http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info4.shtml





you are talking about different species . . . he was talking about different strains within a species. And all strains are in fact around the same potency although some are more potent because of what you grow them on. Somebody starting out grew some on a pf cake and didnt like the potency so then dropped that strain because of that and did a wbs/dung casing with a different strain and BAM! they have a "more potent strain"


--------------------
Holler!


Edited by fleshofgods (04/25/03 08:25 AM)


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: fleshofgods]
    #1492242 - 04/25/03 08:28 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

actually you are right and wrong (all in speculation of course). take strain A and grow it on BRF and strain B and grow it on BRF. strain A comes out more potent than strain B (assuming all other factors are constant). Take the same strains and grow them out on WBS in place of BRF and watch strain B come out more potent this time. What I'm getting at is that different strains will have a maximum potency dependant upon many factors with substrate being one of the more prominent ones. Potency is truly an ambigous term for there is no definiteive method for the home grower to actually determine the exact ratios of actives to mass. IOW, it's a pointless argument.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: debianlinux]
    #1492358 - 04/25/03 09:30 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Nice try there but your myths are in some cases actually correct statements.
Firstly it is common knowledge that cold shocking is requried for many species of mushroom - although not particularly Ps.Cubensis. If you look at any cultivation book you will find information on temperature parameters for species and here it will nearly always demonstrate that a colder fruiting temp is required from the ideal temps during incubation. Therefore a cold-shock in terms of a colder fruiting temperature is required.
Secondly as someone has mentioned studies by Stivje and Demeijer in 1993 demonstrated a consistant variation in psilocin content per weight of two spore-races of cubensis - (what was described in the study as an Amazonian with .50% psilocin and Mexican with .33% psilocin). These were ofcourse grown on the same substrate under the same controlled conditions.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: debianlinux]
    #1492419 - 04/25/03 09:50 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I find it laughable that our champion of anti-mythology
seems to have vanished after strong, intelligent arguments
to refute his *truths* have been provided.

I love newbies... :smirk:


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1492552 - 04/25/03 10:38 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

(what was described in the study as an Amazonian with .50% psilocin and Mexican with .33% psilocin). These were ofcourse grown on the same substrate under the same controlled conditions.




my point exactly. this test is inconclusive as there are a myriad of substrates and other factors which will produce completely different results. it would be nice if we did have an economical means of verifying actives content because then we could, as a group, eventually compile a database of sorts that shows what conditions are optimal for a given strain. i had it in my mind to do this singlehandedly but it is quite impossible for me to determine actives content.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: debianlinux]
    #1492578 - 04/25/03 10:46 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

'my point exactly. this test is inconclusive as there are a myriad of substrates and other factors which will produce completely different results. it would be nice if we did have an economical means of verifying actives content because then we could, as a group, eventually compile a database of sorts that shows what conditions are optimal for a given strain. i had it in my mind to do this singlehandedly but it is quite impossible for me to determine actives content. '
From my reading of the study it seems pretty conclusive to me. They have used the same type of substrate and demonstrated consistant results.
Gartz has done studies that also demonstrate that substrates differ in tryptophan contents, and thus the mushrooms grown off these will differ significantly in potency.
I would say that its the best study around on the subject. and it is on par with my own experiences.


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1492627 - 04/25/03 11:01 AM (17 years, 6 months ago)

my point was that it is quite likely that the active content % would have been different and possibly reversed had they tested the same strains on a different substrates. sure it is conclusive for that substrate:strian combination but does not offer conclusive proof that strain A is always more potent than strain B.


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Offlinef8L
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: afoaf]
    #1492948 - 04/25/03 12:38 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I find it laughable that our champion of anti-mythology
seems to have vanished after strong, intelligent arguments
to refute his *truths* have been provided.

I love newbies... :smirk: 




Haha.  Finals suck, I will have time to answer with proper refutations this weekend. 


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
    #1493632 - 04/25/03 03:39 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

just giving you a proper ribbing!

good luck on exams.

:grin:


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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