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Vitalux
Stranger from the next universe



Registered: 02/15/11
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Adam & Eve re: Did God Lie, and the snake tell the truth?
#14885290 - 08/07/11 12:22 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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The Bible says that God created Adam and Eve and put them in a beautiful garden full of trees with good fruit. However, God also created a tree that would give the eater the knowledge of good and evil - commanding Adam not to eat its fruit "or you will surly die"
A serpent tempted Eve, who was aware of the prohibition against eating the forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge (Genesis 3:1-6). The serpent had suggested to Eve that eating the fruit would bestow wisdom upon them. Eve and then Adam ate the forbidden fruit, and they became aware of their nakedness.

The interesting thing to point out in this story, is that God was lying to Adam, while the snake was telling the truth. When Adam ate the apple he did not die. (as in fall over and die of poisoning)
We are taught that God is good, and the snake is evil.
This story contains a paradox. If God is the truth, than how can he lie. If they snake was telling the truth, than how can the snake be evil?
In medicine, and money we see the snake as part of the symbol of both.

It is like the people who created the stories in the bible put hidden meanings in the bible that gave further insight into things.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Adam & Eve re: Did God Lie, and the snake tell the truth? [Re: Vitalux]
#14885336 - 08/07/11 12:35 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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"you will surely die"
To me this doesn't mean that they wouldn't have died anyway but that they would gain awareness of their impermanence which would open up a pandora's box of suffering for humanity.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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giza


Registered: 08/25/09
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Re: Adam & Eve re: Did God Lie, and the snake tell the truth? [Re: Vitalux]
#14885351 - 08/07/11 12:40 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Adam did die though, not for many years after that, but he still did die.
And you can say that God was protecting their innocence, if they were to do something 'evil' without knowing that it was 'evil' then they would be innocent, as opposed to knowing what's 'evil' and then committing such an act.
Edited by giza (08/07/11 12:45 PM)
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Vitalux
Stranger from the next universe



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Posts: 2,695
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Re: Adam & Eve re: Did God Lie, and the snake tell the truth? [Re: giza]
#14885512 - 08/07/11 01:12 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: "you will surely die"
To me this doesn't mean that they wouldn't have died anyway but that they would gain awareness of their impermanence which would open up a pandora's box of suffering for humanity.
Quote:
giza said: Adam did die though, not for many years after that, but he still did die.
So a simple question is:
Was the serpent telling the truth?
Did God Lie?
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Icelander
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Re: Adam & Eve re: Did God Lie, and the snake tell the truth? [Re: Vitalux]
#14885521 - 08/07/11 01:13 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Depends on how you read the story.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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giza


Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
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Re: Adam & Eve re: Did God Lie, and the snake tell the truth? [Re: Icelander]
#14885568 - 08/07/11 01:19 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Don't really know the specifics on when they would die, but they're not around today that I know of, so I don't believe it was a lie.
Edited by giza (08/07/11 01:20 PM)
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Vitalux
Stranger from the next universe



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Re: Adam & Eve re: Did God Lie, and the snake tell the truth? [Re: Icelander]
#14885574 - 08/07/11 01:21 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Depends on how you read the story.
what does your common sense tell you?
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deff
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Re: Adam & Eve re: Did God Lie, and the snake tell the truth? [Re: Vitalux]
#14885585 - 08/07/11 01:24 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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i think the story is a metaphor and one with many different interpretations
who's telling the truth and their motives depends on the interpretation
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Vitalux
Stranger from the next universe



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Re: Adam & Eve re: Did God Lie, and the snake tell the truth? [Re: deff]
#14885620 - 08/07/11 01:32 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
deff said: i think the story is a metaphor and one with many different interpretations
I agree
thank you
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Noteworthy
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Re: Adam & Eve re: Did God Lie, and the snake tell the truth? [Re: Vitalux]
#14885646 - 08/07/11 01:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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im not sure its even about who is telling the truth.
it seems both god and satan were telling the truth.
The only difference is that god tried to withold wisdom whereas the snake tried to impart it.
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Icelander
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Re: Adam & Eve re: Did God Lie, and the snake tell the truth? [Re: Vitalux]
#14885736 - 08/07/11 02:12 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
sloantbone said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Depends on how you read the story.
what does your common sense tell you?
It's a story.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Adam & Eve re: Did God Lie, and the snake tell the truth? [Re: Noteworthy]
#14885741 - 08/07/11 02:13 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Noteworthy said: im not sure its even about who is telling the truth.
it seems both god and satan were telling the truth.
The only difference is that god tried to withold wisdom whereas the snake tried to impart it.
Gotta love da snake. 
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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zzripz
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Re: Adam & Eve re: Did God Lie, and the snake tell the truth? [Re: Vitalux]
#14886174 - 08/07/11 03:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
sloantbone said:
So a simple question is:
Was the serpent telling the truth?
Did God Lie?
As I understand that old tale, it is the patriarchy denigrating the Goddess, and making taboo the sacred sacrament. Way before this tale was writ by the male Levite priests, it was very well known that mythically the serpent is an image of the Goddess herself. The Tree also, and the Garden or really originally connected with the Goddess. So see what they do. The make her a mortal woman, and have their 'God' expropriate He garden with its sacred tree, and fruit of enlightenment, and to add insult to injury had mortal Adam give birth to Eve!! This unnatural act puts the stamp on this being utterly patriarchal, and is to put women in their place, under men 'who God created in HIS image'.
Now this war god warns that eating the tree of the fruit of good and evil will bring death, and in this divisive tale it does. He blames Eve for bringing death, the Fall into nature which implies that before there was no death. So this gives the premise that death and life aren't a dynamic interelated whole and it makes no sense to imagine you can have either life or death without each other.
In cursing the Goddess --surreptitiously, because it is taboo to even mention Her in the patriarchal slanderous tale---God curses the serpent, and also has to curse nature, because the Goddess is nature, very anciently known and revered as Mother Earth. And to cap it all, the Tree of Life (both the trees in the garden are really meaning one tree subtextually) is forbidden--meaning that we, the slaves of the brutal war god must not have access to the sacred fruit of the Goddess, because then we will re-connect with her magical garden and see right through the matrix these priests have created in this oppressive scripture. This taboo is SO taboo, it is not like a normal taboo where the object of the taboo is known, it is hidden, so the taboo is made out to be disobedience to 'God' when it is really taboo against even knowing about the sacred fruit of enlightenment. John Lash explains this: The Oldest Taboo in the World
Quote:
Paradoxically, breaking the taboo is a way of observe it: the beaver is kept sacred by not being eaten most of the time, but then, even when it is eaten, the communal ceremony of consumption is a sacred event. Taboos work positively in indigenous societies because they are openly accepted by the members who are asked to observe them. The tribe knows exactly what it is forbidden to do. Normally, a taboo is open and self-evident.
Not so, the taboo the original ecstatic religious experience induced by psychoactive plants or medicine plants. This taboo is totally exceptional and fundamentally different from the universal model of prohibition that sets a felxible boundary between sacred and profane. In this bizarre instance, the taboo hides itself from those who are required to observe it. The taboo on original religion is a prohibition that keeps its observants in the dark about what is prohibited to them Rather than knowing about the taboo, and observing it openly and by consent, the community—in this case, the entire human race—is forbidden to know the taboo exists, as well as forbidden to partake of the tabooed object.
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Satyapriya



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Re: Adam & Eve re: Did God Lie, and the snake tell the truth? [Re: zzripz]
#14886255 - 08/07/11 04:00 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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IMO the church establishment at the time created the God in that story, so it's really the church telling Adam not to eat the fruit. And of course they wouldn't lie 
Either way, the stories in the bible aren't to be taken literally. That's how you get the crazy paranoid end times people who read way far into Revelations as if it is an actual, literal, prophecy.
If anything, the "God" in that story was referring to the death of their innocence, and probably the birth of the rational mind.
There's a book I like called The Way of the Peaceful Warrior that sums it up pretty well I think:
"The fall from grace happens to each of us when we start thinking, when we become namers and knowers. Its not just 'Adam and Eve' you see, its all of us. The birth of the mind is the death of the senses." ~ Socrates in The Way of the Peaceful Warrior
The real question is what was the fruit from this tree? Was it the vine that contains the active chemical in ayahuasca? or was it magic mushrooms? I wonder..
If it was either of those I would have to say that yes, the "God" in that story was absolutely lying, because magic mushrooms can bring you BACK to yourself, back to your innocence, back to life. Not death. If anything it takes your fear of death away.
-------------------- www.collectivelyconscious.net - Hive mind for the awakened. ॐ Collectively Conscious ॐ is a community-powered, community-verified, alternative news/multimedia aggregation service for global citizens.
Edited by Satyapriya (08/07/11 04:02 PM)
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misterogerz


Registered: 06/07/02
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Re: Adam & Eve re: Did God Lie, and the snake tell the truth? [Re: Satyapriya]
#14886289 - 08/07/11 04:05 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shrooomtastic said: IMO the church establishment at the time created the God in that story, so it's really the church telling Adam not to eat the fruit. And of course they wouldn't lie 
Either way, the stories in the bible aren't to be taken literally. That's how you get the crazy paranoid end times people who read way far into Revelations as if it is an actual, literal, prophecy.
If anything, the "God" in that story was referring to the death of their innocence, and probably the birth of the rational mind.
There's a book I like called The Way of the Peaceful Warrior that sums it up pretty well I think:
"The fall from grace happens to each of us when we start thinking, when we become namers and knowers. Its not just 'Adam and Eve' you see, its all of us. The birth of the mind is the death of the senses." ~ Socrates in The Way of the Peaceful Warrior
The real question is what was the fruit from this tree? Was it the vine that contains the active chemical in ayahuasca? or was it magic mushrooms? I wonder..
If it was either of those I would have to say that yes, the "God" in that story was absolutely lying, because magic mushrooms can bring you BACK to yourself, back to your innocence, back to life. Not death. If anything it takes your fear of death away.
ego-death perhaps? 
ive kinda thought it was amanitas since it's 'fruit' associated with a tree and they have a symbiotic relationship, but idk for sure
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Satyapriya



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Re: Adam & Eve re: Did God Lie, and the snake tell the truth? [Re: misterogerz]
#14886378 - 08/07/11 04:21 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
misterogerz said:
Quote:
Shrooomtastic said: IMO the church establishment at the time created the God in that story, so it's really the church telling Adam not to eat the fruit. And of course they wouldn't lie 
Either way, the stories in the bible aren't to be taken literally. That's how you get the crazy paranoid end times people who read way far into Revelations as if it is an actual, literal, prophecy.
If anything, the "God" in that story was referring to the death of their innocence, and probably the birth of the rational mind.
There's a book I like called The Way of the Peaceful Warrior that sums it up pretty well I think:
"The fall from grace happens to each of us when we start thinking, when we become namers and knowers. Its not just 'Adam and Eve' you see, its all of us. The birth of the mind is the death of the senses." ~ Socrates in The Way of the Peaceful Warrior
The real question is what was the fruit from this tree? Was it the vine that contains the active chemical in ayahuasca? or was it magic mushrooms? I wonder..
If it was either of those I would have to say that yes, the "God" in that story was absolutely lying, because magic mushrooms can bring you BACK to yourself, back to your innocence, back to life. Not death. If anything it takes your fear of death away.
ego-death perhaps? 
ive kinda thought it was amanitas since it's 'fruit' associated with a tree and they have a symbiotic relationship, but idk for sure 
hmm i bet. there have been many articles about how the fruit was probably magic mushrooms, or manna, as they think it is referred to as in the bible.
There are some churches out there that believe this very strongly. For instance the Swiss church. I've heard that they will send you a baggie of "golden flakes" upon request, which are supposed to be dried psilocybin containing mushrooms of some sort.
Also many South American churches hold rituals involving both ayahuasca and/or magic mushrooms.
-------------------- www.collectivelyconscious.net - Hive mind for the awakened. ॐ Collectively Conscious ॐ is a community-powered, community-verified, alternative news/multimedia aggregation service for global citizens.
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misterogerz


Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 1,433
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Re: Adam & Eve re: Did God Lie, and the snake tell the truth? [Re: Satyapriya]
#14886475 - 08/07/11 04:40 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shrooomtastic said:
Quote:
misterogerz said:
Quote:
Shrooomtastic said: IMO the church establishment at the time created the God in that story, so it's really the church telling Adam not to eat the fruit. And of course they wouldn't lie 
Either way, the stories in the bible aren't to be taken literally. That's how you get the crazy paranoid end times people who read way far into Revelations as if it is an actual, literal, prophecy.
If anything, the "God" in that story was referring to the death of their innocence, and probably the birth of the rational mind.
There's a book I like called The Way of the Peaceful Warrior that sums it up pretty well I think:
"The fall from grace happens to each of us when we start thinking, when we become namers and knowers. Its not just 'Adam and Eve' you see, its all of us. The birth of the mind is the death of the senses." ~ Socrates in The Way of the Peaceful Warrior
The real question is what was the fruit from this tree? Was it the vine that contains the active chemical in ayahuasca? or was it magic mushrooms? I wonder..
If it was either of those I would have to say that yes, the "God" in that story was absolutely lying, because magic mushrooms can bring you BACK to yourself, back to your innocence, back to life. Not death. If anything it takes your fear of death away.
ego-death perhaps? 
ive kinda thought it was amanitas since it's 'fruit' associated with a tree and they have a symbiotic relationship, but idk for sure 
hmm i bet. there have been many articles about how the fruit was probably magic mushrooms, or manna, as they think it is referred to as in the bible.
There are some churches out there that believe this very strongly. For instance the Swiss church. I've heard that they will send you a baggie of "golden flakes" upon request, which are supposed to be dried psilocybin containing mushrooms of some sort.
Also many South American churches hold rituals involving both ayahuasca and/or magic mushrooms.
Gyms have psilocybin and grow from trees/stumps im sure there are others that grow from tree bases as well
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