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 Reverend_Jim_Jones
Stranger
Registered: 04/23/03
Posts: 91
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 A different N.Z psilocybe ? *DELETED* 
#1487779 - 04/23/03 10:42 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Reverend_Jim_JonesReason for deletion: .
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Anonymous
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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 blaze2
The Witness
Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: ]
#1488174 - 04/24/03 01:17 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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i love a good mushroom mystery.
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"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein
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ruskifile
droog
Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 258
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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wow they do seem potent by that bluing, huh...
I'm sorry i have no idea  but I'll be following any updates with interest, this is intriguing...
and it's always good to hear of a cross-Tasman find  ...you have a nice macro lens too...
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(zhukov in a previous life....)
2SER FM underground radio
Edited by ruskifile (04/24/03 08:23 AM)
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fatasaurus
pinger
Registered: 04/13/03
Posts: 50
Loc: Melbourne, Vic, AU
Last seen: 19 years, 8 months
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: ruskifile]
#1488800 - 04/24/03 09:10 AM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah i have no idea and haven't noticed those blue ones before but i find goldtops (P .subaeruginosa) as well so if these are more potent mabey i should go hunting them too =)
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"You can't make the scene, if you don't have the green"
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ruskifile
droog
Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 258
Loc: nowhere
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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I've found some fairly green subs before...but nothing like what you have there
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(zhukov in a previous life....)
2SER FM underground radio
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comario2
amateur
Registered: 09/06/02
Posts: 1,352
Loc: between places
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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WOW! mjshroomer, what do you say?
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comario
"crusaders against emotional poverty"
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Workman
Psilocybe Microscopist
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,566
Loc: Washington, USA
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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That looks very closely related to Psilocybe semilanceata and I have seen a similar blue liberty cap from Scotland. I'd say they are probably Psilocybe semilanceata var. caerulescens.
I may have the variety wrong but it was something like that. I need to look it up to be sure of the variety and spelling.
Good find.
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Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification  
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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I tried to {PM you this message but your PM is turned off.
Here is what I said.
Look like cold liberty caps.
However, dry some completely out.
Put them in an envelope between a few postcards with a photo. Mail them to :
Dr. Gaston Guzman,
Instituto de Ecologia,
Apartado Postal 63,
Xalapa, Veracruz,
Mexico,
And tell them habitat despcription and such. If they are new then you would be able to get your name on the species.
If mailed in plain envelope they will not be opened by any custons and because they are in a letter they do not need a customs inspecition number.
mj
Let me know.
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: Workman]
#1489917 - 04/24/03 02:46 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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HI Workman, P. semilanceata var. caerulescens was attached to the liberty cap becasue bluing was observed in the stems of some specimens. Sinc e that time decades ago, it was found that many species bruise blue when damaged so the namce var. caerulescens has no current status.
I too have collected libs with that blue green color and e en had a beautiful pafgge at Spiritplants which was removed with all of my pictorials I donated to them three years ago.
have a shroomy day,
mj
P.s. Guzman thanks you for the shrooms.
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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I will check my taxonomic notesd form Guaman on those formthe Austral Floral Zone.
Get back to you in a day or two,
mj
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Anonymous
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: mjshroomer]
#1490919 - 04/24/03 07:41 PM (19 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nice, keep us updated.
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: daba]
#1492279 - 04/25/03 07:52 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Those are probably the native southern NZ Psilocybe Makarorae which is described by Johnstone and Buchanan as:
Cap: conical to campanulate, to convex, with a light umbo, yellow brown to orange brown staining blue/green with age. flesh white.
Gills: adnexed, pale greyish brown
Stem: brownish at base, white overall, silky, white rhizoids at base stainign strongly greenish blue veil cortiniod but with no annular ring of veil remnants.
Microscopics: 4 spored basidia, pluerocystidia ventricose rostrate to mucronate, hyaline sproe size - 7.5-9.5 X 5.5-6.5 averaging 8.7 x 6.0 x 5.3 ovate in shape.
It was originally identified as Psilocybe Caerulipes and belongs to the family Semilanceata but it has been reclassified as a seperate species due to p.cystidia in 1983 and was classified as Ps.Makarorae and part of the Mexicanae.
It is reported here on falling leaves, rotting woods and rank grasses.
FOund at Dunedin in 1967, Westland and also Rotorua in 1987.
I would send a gill fragment to someone here like Mr.Mushrooms, Teonan or Workman to confirm this id ofcourse.
And i would kill for a print of that mushroom!!!!!!!!!!!!
So you says is more potent than Ps.Subaeruginosa ??
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Anonymous
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1492298 - 04/25/03 08:04 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: ]
#1492312 - 04/25/03 08:10 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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no problem mate!
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: ]
#1492347 - 04/25/03 08:25 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Guzman does not take yars. If one is worried about that than I do have colleagues who can analyse it in a month or so.
Cutrreently I am working on a large paper with DNA studies, Chemical analysis and taxnomy of Thailand Cambodia shrooms including theree newly discovered species by me.
Workman is also working on a few of those at the moment.
mj
But it could be as Blue Meanin said. Itr could also be P. Paupana from New Guinea or a related species.
Blue Baeos get that blue green cap look but I also, like workman hav pics of liberty caps which also look similar. They are froma cold frosty night and then extreme day time warmpth.
mj
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: mjshroomer]
#1492398 - 04/25/03 08:42 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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'Itr could also be P. Paupana from New Guinea or a related species.'
I went with Makarorae as is has been reported and found in southern NZ and the photo did match a few pics ive seen of Ps.Caerulipes to which this shroom is apparently identical. Also it was originally classified as of being of the family Semilanceata and the description matched it pretty well.
Good old blue caps eh?
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Anonymous
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: mjshroomer]
#1492418 - 04/25/03 08:49 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: ]
#1492513 - 04/25/03 09:23 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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I wonder when Guzman will get around to correcting his delineation of Ps.Australiana?? 
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Workman
Psilocybe Microscopist
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,566
Loc: Washington, USA
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1492528 - 04/25/03 09:29 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes, I'd love a sample to work with. If it grows similar to Psilocybe semilanceata I should be able to reproduce it.
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Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification
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Anonymous
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: Workman]
#1492541 - 04/25/03 09:33 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1492638 - 04/25/03 10:06 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Blue Meanie, That shroom is nowhere close to macroscopically resembling P. caerulipes. Guzman on,y wrote that there was an unnamed bluing PSilocybe sp. with affinities to the North American P. caerulipes (Peck)) Sacc.
And there were two alleged new species of bluing psilocybes.
one reported by Morgot and Waight in 1978 and another by my colleague Chris King. Both were suggested as having affinities with the P. caerulipes from the east coast of America. But then both reported differences in the two species so that they could not be the same species.
I have collected shroos with Chris King who also has a large shroom website and a cd-rom on the market concerinting shrooms.
mj
All Psilocybes can look exactly like one another at some stage in their growth and develpoement. I just posted a page with several look-a-like Psilocybes in it here inthis forum on how to Identify Psilocye.
mj
Edited by mjshroomer (04/25/03 10:19 AM)
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1492642 - 04/25/03 10:08 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Currently Guzm?n is finishing an update on the Genus Psilocybe. His monograph on the entire Psilocybe genus.
But he is also examining several new species I brought back from Southeast Asia as well as a new species I discovered here in the PNW two years ago, which Workman is also working on getting to grow.
the point being is that if you sent to Guzm?n you would be credited with its discovery and a chance to help name the species, but if someone else finds it and it is a new species and does the taxonomy or whatever then you lose that chance for academic immotal fame for its discovery. See Hispanica was named by Nacho who discovered it in Spain and is acredited for its discovery inthe journal where the taxononmy appeared.
mj
mj
Edited by mjshroomer (04/25/03 10:12 AM)
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Workman
Psilocybe Microscopist
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 3,566
Loc: Washington, USA
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: ]
#1492756 - 04/25/03 10:47 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Mr. Mushrooms.
I haven't located the sample yet. It is in my unsorted pile and I just haven't taken the time. I haven't forgotten and won't request the gym monograph until I have the sample in hand.
--------------------
Research funded by the patrons of
The Spore Works
Exotic Spore Supply
Reinvesting 25% of Sales Towards Basic Research and Species Identification
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Anonymous
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 Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: Workman]
#1492771 - 04/25/03 10:52 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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Reverend_Jim_Jones
Stranger
Registered: 04/23/03
Posts: 91
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? *DELETED* [Re: ]
#1493773 - 04/25/03 03:38 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Reverend_Jim_JonesReason for deletion: .
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Anonymous
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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GGreatOne234
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 8,946
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Super Yummy Looking Shrooms Dude!!!! 
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: GGreatOne234]
#1493900 - 04/25/03 04:21 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks Rev, You can send them also to me in envelopes.
mj
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Paid
Pict
Registered: 03/12/03
Posts: 5,376
Loc: Zone ate
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
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I can certainly recommend Mr Mushroom for prompt and expert help.
:-) looks very interessting :-) clone the sucker :-) if you have a successful
hunt this autum :-)
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Anonymous
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 Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: Paid]
#1494250 - 04/25/03 07:43 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -
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zeta
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 3,972
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This is really interesting Rev. Jim
(I'm in Christchurch)
Do you reckon the mystery shroom would be found this far north?
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: mjshroomer]
#1494420 - 04/25/03 09:22 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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'Blue Meanie, That shroom is nowhere close to macroscopically resembling P. caerulipes. Guzman on,y wrote that there was an unnamed bluing PSilocybe sp. with affinities to the North American P. caerulipes (Peck)) Sacc.
And there were two alleged new species of bluing psilocybes.
one reported by Morgot and Waight in 1978 and another by my colleague Chris King. Both were suggested as having affinities with the P. caerulipes from the east coast of America. But then both reported differences in the two species so that they could not be the same species.
I have collected shroos with Chris King who also has a large shroom website and a cd-rom on the market concerinting shrooms.
mj
All Psilocybes can look exactly like one another at some stage in their growth and develpoement. I just posted a page with several look-a-like Psilocybes in it here inthis forum on how to Identify Psilocye.
mj '
Firstly I was quoting directly from Buchanan's work on Psilocybes from New Zealand which is considerably more detailed and well regarded among academics than Guzman's or Watlings. Since Makarorae was described not by Guzman or Watling, but by Buchanan and Johnstone im not sure why you think Guzman has any relevance to any conversation about Makarorae.
The work is titled 'The genus Psilocybe (Agaricales) in New Zealand (1995)' and is by far the most comprehensive work available on NZ Psilocybes.
It also goes into detail in describing how Guzman delineated Ps.Subaeruginosa from Australiana by only examining on type specimen when their were 11 available.
Secondly since a few people here have suggested that this mushroom could be similar to Semilanceata i thought it was important to explain that Makarorae was originally placed into that family.
Your first and last sentences condradict one another. You say this mushroom looks nothing like Ps.Caerulipes - although you should know that macroscopic appearence is nowhere near as relevant to correct identification compared to microscopic detail - then you say that at certain times in the life-cycle of psilocybes, they all look similar. WHich way is it MJ?
Certainly i would say that my tentative Identification - which by the way managed to sit quite nicely with the details supplied - was far more relevant than your mentioning of some psilocybe that you found on an island that is literally thousands of Kms away from New Zealand and with a completely different climate.
Lastly - a quote from Buchanan's work:
HOLOTYPE: 'New Zealand Otago Lakes, Blue Pools Track on rotten Nothofagus wood in 1990.'
NOTES: 'Margot and Watling (1981) examined PDD 49788 and considered that it was similar to P.Caerulipes (Peck) Sacc. p.Caerulipes, belonging to section Semilanceatae of Guzman (1983), but is distinguished by is lack of pluerocystidia, different spore shape, and longer-necked cheilocystidia. Spore shape upon examinination of 49788 and type-specimens and bluing reaction place p.makarorae in section Mexincane of Guzman (1983). The size of the caps, the presence of pleurocystidia, macroscopic detail, short-necked cheilocystidia distinguish p.Makarorae from the six species accepted in this section by Guzman.'
There you have it - in actual fact Buchanan and Johnstone found from examining their own and Watlings specimens that Makarorae was quite distinct from Ps.Caerulipes. But that their specimens and those found at Makarorae, Mt. Ngongotaha, Westland and Dunedin were type-specimens of Makarorae.
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Edited by Zen Peddler (04/25/03 09:26 PM)
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1494481 - 04/25/03 10:05 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have the Buchanan article. and again they do not resemble P. caerulipes. AS for liberty caps, they grow in tall rank grass attached to the roots of such grasses and then this shrooms you mention which you quote Buchanan, who says they were found on rotten nothofaus wood. Two entirely different habitats.
AS for my statement, I was referring to the general descriptive characteristics of the genus. I have photos of P. cubensis with thier caps all wavy from an in vitro cultivation resembling P. cyanescens, yet that is one in a million. I also have a picture of P. caerulescens with simialr wavy caps. That does not mean that all of the species would look the same.
My suyggesti9on of the New Guinea species is that it is a similar environment and Guzman and other have suggested that P. kumaeorum cou;ld be found in Australia.
Look at G. putrpuratus. It is also know of in Chile and Argentina which si thoudsands of miles from Australia/NZ.
My comments of Guzman were the same as Buchanan who wrote from Guzmans statements.
mj
Edited by mjshroomer (04/25/03 10:10 PM)
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: A different N.Z psilocybe ? [Re: mjshroomer]
#1497347 - 04/27/03 03:22 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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My bad actually - i did say that Buchanan suggested that Ps.Caerulipes resembled Makarorae and this is incorrect. It does resemble some pics of seen of Caerulipes, but that not surprising as i agree that psilocybes within each taxon can range consdierably.
But suggesting that New Guinea and New Zealand have similar climates is a bit of a stretch.
Papua New Guinea is tropical in that it is nearly on the equator or just below it ranging from 0 to 10 degrees from it. Id say that Guzman's suggestion might hold true for Northern Queensland Australia, but not for New Zealand.
The south Island of New Zealand 42 to 48 degrees from the equator.
Gy.Purpuratus seems to be spread around areas with relatively similar climates to Victoria, Australia. and it similar distance from the equator.
The suggestion that this mushroom was part of the Semilanceatae complex was being disputed by Buchanan from its incorrect classification by Watling et.al.
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